Chester Zoo Chester Zoo Black Rhinos.

[MARK]

I remember the old Whipsnade Cheetah Paddocks. Wire mesh and the cubs were born in a little shed at the back. The original breeding pair were 'Juanita' and the male ? (I seem to remember he was very tame, even 'leash-trained')

I think you will find the males name was Jack and yes they did have much breeding success in the early years and from what I remember bred over 100 cubs. One of the things that were claimed that helped them in the breeding was they only introduced the male from time to time and did not keep them togeather as "a pair" as other zoos were doing at the time

 

[Pertinax]

Promising signs also for the younger pair! Magadi is a well socialised rhino bull and would make an ideal combination with Dvur's Ema.

Anyhow, a second female from Dvur is expected soonish (they have only room for around 13-15 rhinos). Will keep you all posted!

That's why I don't think they need Quinto anymore... Disregarding Rosie, they could put Quinto with this new Dvur female which hasn't arrived yet. After that they could afford to let him go down to Port Lympne for a while.

 

[Pertinax]

One of Chester's rhino keepers has been testing Rosie's dung for hormones, but she hinted that Rosie and Quinto may just be incoompatible. Perhaps they should try her with Magadi, I don't know how closely they are related.

Magadi and Rosie are totally unrelated...

If they proved compatable, it would be good news. I feel that Quinto can't be given his full potential at Chester in the current situation, though obviously Chester would like to get another calf from him (perhaps with the 2nd new Dvur female?) Then perhaps send him to PL for a while?

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

Magadi and Rosie are totally unrelated...

If they proved compatable, it would be good news. I feel that Quinto can't be given his full potential at Chester in the current situation, though obviously Chester would like to get another calf from him (perhaps with the 2nd new Dvur female?) Then perhaps send him to PL for a while?

Just come back from tour guide volunteering in my hometown zoo (at 04.00 am). A bit hazy, yet full on the mark.

I yet think they should seriously try Quinto with Rosie for a year and see how he goes with her. Quinto is the only mature and proven rhino bull they have at present. Magadi on the other hand is still a young hand at mating females and may have authority over similarly aged Ema, but I doubt very much if he has got it him in yet to confront Rosie's behavorial gist so to speak. Does he have the guts, groin and stamina ... I really doubt it.

I still think that in black rhino as well as their Ceratotherium cousin older more mature bulls stand a better chance against aggressive females than 5-7 year old adults ..................

 

[Pertinax]

Quinto is the only mature and proven rhino bull they have at present. Magadi on the other hand is still a young hand at mating females and may have authority over similarly aged Ema, but I doubt very much if he has got it him in yet to confront Rosie's behavorial gist so to speak. Does he have the guts, groin and stamina ... I really doubt it.

I see where you're coming from, however I think the problem here is with 'abnormal' Rosie because of her handreared past and subsequent lack of mating (with Jos) during her formative years. Quinto is certainly Chester's most experienced bull but if she doesn't respond normally he may push her too much- apparently after they were mixed together there was a lot of chasing and they were seperated as she was stressed and slightly injured. I was told a previous female(Emma or Esther) at Chester collapsed and died after a similar mating chase, so with that in mind, the staff may be reluctant to risk Rosie any further by putting her with Quinto again. I'm interested to know what their current 'plan of campaign' is going to be, in fact.
She might get on okay with the less dominant Magadi. Or if not they could try Sammy with her- it wouldn't hurt him to meet a different female from the two(Quinto's daughters) that he lives with permanently.

I think Quinto needs a properly socialised female partner- like the 2nd Dvur female to arrive soon. then if he gets a pregnancy at CHester maybe send him to PL for a while. There would still be two other bulls at Chester to try with Rosie, and failing that, I think she would be a classic case for AI.

Actually,I'm not sure Quinto is that important genetically- he and Pangani were bred I think at Zurich Zoo and he has produced the two daughters at CHester already.

 

[CZJimmy]

After speaking to a rhino keeper today i asked some questions about the breeding situation at Chester.

In Tsavo, Sammy is in the bad-books with Manyara and especially Kitani. Sammy is quite shy and kept his distance from the two girls but has mated recently.

With Magadi and Emma, they have mated again, but Emma became annoyed with Magadi's inexperience.

They are keeping Rosie and Quinto seperate at the moment and are reluctant to put them back together, but want to as it is possibly Rosie's last chance for a calf (she's 19 now).

No mention of the new female...

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

Thanx CZJimmy,

That puts the whole rhino breeding programme in a better perspective.

From your remarks it is clear that both Sammy and Magadi still have a lot to learn when it comes to mating with cows. Quinto is the only real dominant force in Chester.

I recall in Port Lympne they put the shier rhinos in with an animal of similar sex untill they gained enough confidence for themselves. If it works for cows, why not for youngish bulls? Basically, they need practice, practice and practice.

The females once in oestrus must meet a male that knows how to do the business and quick. Rough and ready so to speak. Quinto is the only candidate of that force and nature, however he cannot be put in with Manyara or Kitani (as related by blood).

The only short term solution would be a 6-8 month loan out of Kingo from Paignton to Chester for breeding. He is similarly proven breeder (not just at Paignton, but even Port Lympne) and can be put in with Manyara and Kitani.

These are the short term options for calves in 2008/2009.

As you are saying Sammy has now mated with ... Do staff know the end result yet?


Secondly, I really think that on the double Chester should try a make Rosie a candidate for AI, since she is so unlikely to breed naturally with a male (and a very experienced one at that)!

 

[taun]

Sammy has been observed mating with the two females a few times but without success so far.

Chester have but this group together like this after success with similar groups in other zoo's name PL.

 

[Pertinax]

The only short term solution would be a 6-8 month loan out of Kingo from Paignton to Chester for breeding. He is similarly proven breeder (not just at Paignton, but even Port Lympne) and can be put in with Manyara and Kitani.

Yes, Kingo could be spared as they have a small calf at Paignton. But could CHester house yet another bull without making an exchange. Those two females really need mating by a mature bull to get their first calves, it seems.

 

[Pertinax]

After speaking to a rhino keeper today i asked some questions about the breeding situation at Chester.

With Magadi and Emma, they have mated again, but Emma became annoyed with Magadi's inexperience.

They are keeping Rosie and Quinto seperate at the moment and are reluctant to put them back together, but want to as it is possibly Rosie's last chance for a calf (she's 19 now).

No mention of the new female...

1. Maybe pair Quinto with Emma and get her in calf?

2. Try Magadi with the two Tsavo females for a while- to promote a change of partners and increase their sexual activity/interest?

3. Try 'shy' Sammy with desocialised 'Rosie'- if it doesn't work then they could try AI with her. I'm not surprised they are reluctant to remix her with Quinto.

4. Sammy and Magadi will improve with age and weight even if they have few actual mating experiences. But of course its better if they can be with females to encourage mating.
I think they need to move their rhinos around more and try some fresh combinations?

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

1. Maybe pair Quinto with Emma and get her in calf?

2. Try Magadi with the two Tsavo females for a while- to promote a change of partners and increase their sexual activity/interest?

3. Try 'shy' Sammy with desocialised 'Rosie'- if it doesn't work then they could try AI with her. I'm not surprised they are reluctant to remix her with Quinto.

4. Sammy and Magadi will improve with age and weight even if they have few actual mating experiences. But of course its better if they can be with females to encourage mating.
I think they need to move their rhinos around more and try some fresh combinations?

The nearest options for breeding (sorry for sounding rather spartan here) are the 2 proven breeding bulls in the UK: Quinto and Kingo. This replicates the situation in the wild where mature older bulls dominate the breeding stakes. The younger bulls occupy marginal territories and look on while their older brothers maintain their positions.

For rhino breeding in the UK:
1. Pairing Quinto with Ema (not Emma, she is dead I am afraid) would be fine. When Quinto would get her pregnant and with another 6-8 months trying him with Rosie (before continueing on with AI through the IZW people in Berlin), he could then be shifted to Port Lympne to become the new top breeding male.

2. Bringing Kingo in with Sita over the spring/summer 2008 till she is confirmed pregnant again.

3. Shifting Kingo to Chester for a 1-2 year slot to breed with both Manyara and Kitani.

As I said before Magadi and Sammy are way too young and inexperienced yet and for successful breeding need another 2-3 seasons to get it right. That is time we can now ill afford.

Both Chester and Port Lympne need to breed during 2008/2009. Chester has 4 females of breeding age (soon to be 5 with the new Dvur female). While Port Lympne has 6 mature and experienced females ready to be paired (and no proven bull with them). In addition, Port Lympne has 3 young females in the age classes 4-1 plus 2 more young adult females at Bekesbourne (paired already).

 

[Pertinax]

Jelle- shifting a bit to the Port Lympne Rhino situation- do you know which current bulls they are breeding from? I knew of Addo and Jos, but I think there are more ?

Create a new thread or stay on this one??

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

Pertinax,

Will do. New thread on Port Lympne rhino.

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

News on Black Rhino EEP

It is now official! Chester Zoo has taken over as Species Coordinator for the black rhino EEP. Mark Pilgrim is the new man on the block.

I will post him shortly what he intends to do with regards to breeding recommendations for the UK and continental population. See, what I can find out from the man (I am a rhino supporter at Chester also .. sorry force of habit .. so to speak)!

 

[taun]

I can't wait to hear what he plans in the uk, esp as the two key players in the breeding programme are chester and the aspinall parks.

 

[Pertinax]

I can't wait to hear what he plans in the uk, esp as the two key players in the breeding programme are chester and the aspinall parks.

Possibly some more exchanges between the two key players to get the Chester animals breeding? port Lympne could do with Quinto right now...

 

[zoogiraffe]

I can't wait to hear what he plans in the uk, esp as the two key players in the breeding programme are chester and the aspinall parks.

I sure Mark will sort something out but not sure how the hell he`s going to that job as well as everything else he already does at Chester.

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

I sure Mark will sort something out but not sure how the hell he`s going to that job as well as everything else he already does at Chester.

I am sure he is a well busy man, but am confident he is up to the task. With regards to exchanges: it is not just the Chester and Port Lympne groups that need new infusion, but some continental groups like Koeln, Pont Scorff and Magdeburg (for one younger cow) could do with new breeding combinations too.

Anyhow, will keep you all posted on that!

 

[zoogiraffe]

Kitani is pregnant not sure this is has been admitted by the zoo but she is pregnant had it confirmed by 2 members of staff.

 

[CZJimmy]

Kitani is pregnant not sure this is has been admitted by the zoo but she is pregnant had it confirmed by 2 members of staff.

Yeah this was rumoured on here a couple of weeks ago, thanks for the confirmation!

How long is a rhino's gestation period? I'd guess over a year...