Bear Situation In The UK

[^Chris^]

I can imagine the China thing, but it'd be such a shame. It would seem such a half-hearted effort, going through all the trouble of acquiring pandas and putting them in a not-quite-right enclosure. I think if any zoo goes for Pandas they really need new, built from scratch, facilities.

Shall we do ZSL a favour, and under the cover of darkness, blow the thing up? We could do the same to the Casson Pavillion while we're at it, just as long as we get the animals to safety first...

 

[Paradoxurus]

Are you mad, man? You can't blow the Mappins up - they symbolise Regent's Park zoo to millions of people. They are a london icon, part of its landscape. It would be like demolishing Tower Bridge or St. Paul's Cathedral. I think the Casson building is, to a lesser degree, too. Money used to rennovate and strengthen their structure and bring them back into use again, for whatever species, would be well spent.

Don't forget about the plan to create an arctic exhit on the Mappins as well - which would have included Polar Bears.

 

[^Chris^]

Ok, I can see you point with the mappin certainly (just to be clear- I'm not really gonna blow it up!) but I got infuriated on ZSLs behalf as to how restricting their history is. That said, I was quite upset when Writhedhornbill suggested destroying the Lubetkin Pool so each to their own.

My favourite view of the Mappin Terrace is from inside the Giraffe House. Where you can look out through the door, and see the giraffes, the trees, and then the mountain tops peaking up beyond that. It looks really surreal.

A polar enclosure on there would've been awful, I'm sure of that. I can't see a lot better solution than something like what is there now. How about keeping the sloth bears but going for a massive troop of Rhesus Macaques instead of langurs. I know they're not rare but they'd be active and the zoo could keep lots of them. It'd look really 'Jungle Book. How are carnivorous are sloth bears, could they/have they been mixed with another species?

 

[Pertinax]

How are carnivorous are sloth bears, could they/have they been mixed with another species?

I believe the principal diet of Sloth Bear in the wild is termites, dug out of their mounds with those long curved claws. I think they will also eat meat- mostly as carrion, and fruit as well, so they're an Omnivore really.

The real problem with the Mappin Terraces is they need an awful lot of money thrown in their direction to bring them up to modern standards of zoo exhibition. Also, having been designed to be viewed on the three different levels, they would work best if that could be achieved again by making the whole structure, including the upper viewing level and access stairs, safe and accessible to visitors.

I don't think that's an impossible feat. Choosing what species to exhibit seems the most difficult part...

 

[CZJimmy]

I though the reason they closed off the different levels was because it was impossible to provide disabled access?

 

[Paradoxurus]

I believe the muntjac that originally shared the Mappins were removed because the female bear caught and ate one in front of the public. This also happened with a peacock.

I think monkeys, like Rhesus for instance, would be able to avoid the bears (the langurs have done so far). Something like this would be a good species to experiment with before trying a rarer one.

One of the big problems with the Mappins was accessability. There is certainly no way a wheel chair could get up there and, believe it or not, the steps are the only way to get animals on and off the mountains. There are no internal lifts or ramps or stairs or anything.

I actually think that, with a bit of money, the Mappins could have been modfied to make a pretty decent Polar Bear enclosure.

 

[Chris79]

Yes termites are the sloth bear's staple diet. But they are a very aggressive species and will attack most other animals given half a chance. There was a very good episode of Natural World from a few years back, mainly about the leopards of Sri Lanka but it also showed a night-time confrontation between a leopard and a sloth bear. The leopard backed down!

 

[kiang]

was there not an incident last year at beekse bergen in Holland where 2-3 sloth bears chased killed and partially devoured a rhesus macaque that was part of a group that shared their enclosure, all in full sight of visitors. i believe that the macaques have been moved out of that enclosure.

 

[Hadley]

Apart from the steps, there would also be a potential increase in stress levels for the bears if the enclosure became encircled by public viewing areas. Exhibits which can be viewed almost uninterrupted from all sides don't always work well for many species, as they cannot choose their proximity to the public in the same way.

I'm not surprised about the muntjac and peafowl getting caught by the bears, great enrichment though

The arctic thing was floated for a while but really wouldn't work, polar bears are so controversial in this country the space just isn't large enough and too much concrete....

It would be easy to create yet another primate enclosure, but the zoo has many primate-centred exhibits now and to the average joe public, some geladas or macaques will just look like more monkeys.

The site would work well for snow leopards/ takin/ bharal, but snow leopards seem to go to zoos of lower status these days. Or possibly with Andean Bears and pika/ chinchilla colonies on the actual mountains. but it would look amazing as a 'living coasts'-style immersion exhibit, especially if they could create some kind of underwater viewing in the aquarium building. Mind you, London is not short of walk-in aviaries...

 

[^Chris^]

Apart from the steps, there would also be a potential increase in stress levels for the bears if the enclosure became encircled by public viewing areas. Exhibits which can be viewed almost uninterrupted from all sides don't always work well for many species, as they cannot choose their proximity to the public in the same way.

I'm not surprised about the muntjac and peafowl getting caught by the bears, great enrichment though

The arctic thing was floated for a while but really wouldn't work, polar bears are so controversial in this country the space just isn't large enough and too much concrete....

It would be easy to create yet another primate enclosure, but the zoo has many primate-centred exhibits now and to the average joe public, some geladas or macaques will just look like more monkeys.

The site would work well for snow leopards/ takin/ bharal, but snow leopards seem to go to zoos of lower status these days. Or possibly with Andean Bears and pika/ chinchilla colonies on the actual mountains. but it would look amazing as a 'living coasts'-style immersion exhibit, especially if they could create some kind of underwater viewing in the aquarium building. Mind you, London is not short of walk-in aviaries...

Am I right in thinking this is roughly what the Mappins look like? I know the bottom one is almost certainly impossible, but could the second one ever be achieved? Could it support the weight of that much water if it were made into an exhibit for say, fur seals?

I agree that it is best kept viewed from one level, in fact, the layers blend quite well from the bottom.

 

[Hadley]

It is pretty much like that only the paths and mountains curve round as if you had cut a quarter out of a big ampitheatre. There are a few metres width between the the top barrier for the ungulate enclousures and the actual mountain peaks. Markhor/ Bighorn etc would often use these 'yard areas' as opposed to the mountain peaks, and as a result were not always visible from the lower levels.

Any pool for an aquatic species could also be several times deeper if connected with the aquarium directly underneath the mappins, i think that was part of the plan for the old arctic idea for seals and polar bears.

 

[gentle lemur]

If I remember correctly, your diagram is OK for the bottom and top - but it isn't quite right for the middle level (where the bears used to be kept). There was (and I presume there still is) a very deep ditch on the downhill side, and the main part of the enclosures were at a higher level than the lower walkway so that the bears' feet were more or less at waist level for an adult visitor. The main part of the enclosures was fairly flat (with shallow pools for most enclosures, but deeper ones for the polar bears at each end). The top walkway was well above this level, so visitors looked down on the bears in each section.

Alan

 

[Pertinax]

. There was (and I presume there still is) a very deep ditch on the downhill side
Alan

When the broadcaster Robin Day(remember him?) visited the Mappins with his two small sons, one of them fell down into that dry moat.Miraculously I think he recovered but it was a **** long way down to fall...

 

[Paradoxurus]

I think he actually fell off the western end of the public walkway (the one between the bears and the sheep) onto the road below. There's a small gate there, I think to access a pulley system.

 

[Paradoxurus]

Attached are a few photos of what the Mappin's look like now, particularly the old ditch used to retain the bears.

1. A view of a sloth bear holding cage built in one of the old ditches.
2. The same holding cage from the old public walkway.
3. Bear ditch
4. The old public walkway for viewing the bears.
5. The old bear ditch and public walkway.

 

[Paradoxurus]

some more...

1. The ditch again.
2. The back of the mountain peaks.
3. The walkway for viewing the mountains. The retaining fences have been removed.
4. The first cub.

 

[Paradoxurus]

and more...

1. The first cub.
2. Entrance to the old bear dens from one of the enclosures.

 

[Pertinax]

I think he actually fell off the western end of the public walkway (the one between the bears and the sheep) onto the road below. There's a small gate there, I think to access a pulley system.

okay- I knew it was a pretty bad fall somewhere on the Mappins..

Are the deep ditches covered nowadays to allow the bears to reach the 2nd tier (old bear enclosures) if they want to? I've noticed platforms and climbing structures indicating they can.

 

[kiang]

What a wonderful open space at the top of the mountains it seems a shame they are lying there unused

 

[Hadley]

I forget what a mass of concrete it is up there. It must have been such a strange exhibit when it was full until the 80s. The first time I saw it the bears had already gone. The problem for the upper level is that the indoor housing is very, very basic by today's standards, in husbandry terms. It would be difficult to modify this if they were to consider keeping ungulates on the terraces once more.

From the photos it really shows how unforgiving the structure is, I can't imagine what they would do with it should the bears leave. They really have made a good enclosure out of a very difficult site.

Somebody mentioned that there were polar bear pools at each end of the mappins. Were they very deep, and have they been filled in?