ZSL London Zoo Sad news from London Zoo

The options from within the UK are really limited now to;
A male from Port Lympne- perhaps still unlikely given the poor relationship between the two organisations?

'Kumbuka' at Paignton. Right age but related to TWO of the ZSL females (Yeboah was distantly related to the other one!) and was handreared.

'Kesho' at Dublin. Unrelated, mother-reared- a good choice IMO. He is a little young(11) but needs to move really and would do well I'm sure.

There aren't really any suitable others in the UK but still a number in Europe- though it seems harder to find one who is exactly suitable(socially/genetically) nowadays.
 
At Port Lympne... but I doubt they'll let them have one, what with the feud between ZSL and Aspinall.
 
Zambar said:
At Port Lympne... but I doubt they'll let them have one, what with the feud between ZSL and Aspinall.
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Highly unlikely. It didn't happen last time and they are hardly likely to allow a male to go to London now, when one has just died there.
 
Pertinax said:
'Kumbuka' at Paignton. Right age but related to TWO of the ZSL females (Yeboah was distantly related to the other one!) and was handreared.
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From a stunted start, Kumbuka has grown into a lovely looking gorilla and has a fan base of zoo regulars. Is your 'handreared' reservation based on possible socialisation problems? Although he's mainly been kept by himself for a while, he gets on well with the young gorillas when given the opportunity. He hasn't been mixed with your namesake for some time.
 
Gigit said:
Is your 'handreared' reservation based on possible socialisation problems? Although he's mainly been kept by himself for a while, he gets on well with the young gorillas when given the opportunity. He hasn't been mixed with your namesake for some time.
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I should think he would probably integrate well, but handraised males do seem less reliable when it comes to mating behaviour and the ability to dominate a group of females properly. Some do fine, others are useless. 'Awali' who went from Paignton to Barcelona is AFAIK, an example of the latter.

Kumbuka's other main problem regarding suitability is that Zaire is his granny and he's also distantly related to the youngest female 'Mjuku.' But I agree he would make a great exhibit. :)

The eleven year old 'Kesho' at Dublin ticks the other boxes that Kumbuka doesn't.;)

Or they may go back to Europe for another male... for example Beekes Bergen Safari have a group of four related males from Apenheul- all mother-raised, unrelated to London females and the two oldest are the right age group. There are some others at Loro Parc in Tenerife too.
 
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they could swap their gorillas for orangutans because orangs are more successful breeders. more orangs are born in a year than gorillas.
 
If they did that then it would mean extensively refurbishing the almost new Gorilla Kingdom and shipping out the remaining 0:3 Gorilla. It's not a finacially viable solution cg.
 
The official internal e-mail for what were are supposed to tell the public (the truth) and the press (go call the office) goes along the lines of what 'londonboy' stated.

He became noticeably ill last weekend and was passing urine in his blood. He was under observation by his keepers and the vet team. On Wednesday his condition deteriorated and he was taken into the hospital. During the night his vital signs fell, and under general anaesthetic best attempts were taken to stabilise them, and then resuss him. He passed early Thursday morning.

Apparently this is similar to what happened to Bobby.

The keeper team are obviously still shaken, but seem to be staying positive.

In regards to getting a new male in, this has now become a very complicated, and somewhat delicate issue. I can't say too much, but it will be interesting to see what is said in the press release. If not, give it a couple of months or so... There is most definitely a spanner in the works.
 
Nisha said:
shipping out the remaining 0:3 Gorilla. It's not a finacially viable solution cg.
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not to mention finding alternate enclosures/homes for the other African animals which live in the complex and replacing them with similar animals from S.E. Asia
 
procyonlotor said:
In regards to getting a new male in, this has now become a very complicated, and somewhat delicate issue. I can't say too much, but it will be interesting to see what is said in the press release. If not, give it a couple of months or so... There is most definitely a spanner in the works.
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...right so you mean there is a pregnancy.
 
i know that orangs are more successfull breeders than gorillas because i hear of more orang births than gorillas in a year.

i seriously think they should listen to me because they aren't getting anywhere with the gorillas.

really they have 3 options:
1)get a different group in
2)find out if there is a virus going around the girls and if there is then sort it out by treating them for it
3)swap the gorillas for orangs as i've repeatedly said before.
 
ZSL parted with its Orang Utans in 1992 because the public did not percieve them to be as 'happy' as the other two, more active, great ape species kept at the zoo at the time of difficult financial choices on which species to retain and which to remove from the collection.

While I don't believe 'Gorilla Kingdom' is a particularly suitable gorilla habitat, I think it would suit Orang Utans even less, although there would easily be worse examples of orang housing in the UK if this was to happen. It won't happen though.

I think they should opt for Bonobos in an exhibit of this size.

While I am sure the care afforded to Bobby and Yeboah was first-class, I do wonder how difficult this enclosure is in terms of managing stress levels. This is no Woodland Park Zoo immersion, Gorilla Kingdom is 50-odd metres of floor-to-ceiling continuous glass, with a noisy viewing gallery running along one whole side of the outdoor space and on two sides of the indoor day room. This has obviously caused problems for the animals since the opening, with wooden screens put up inside the day room, and a standoff barrier now erected along the glass. I imagine the stress a new male is under coming into the group is not helped by the motorway traffic of visitors passing right through the very spaces used to introduce them. Given that some species can have their houses closed for months on end due to breeding or introductions at the site, I can't see any reason why the indoor gallery should not be closed for several months to allow a male to be introduced.
 
cheetahgirl said:
i know that orangs are more successfull breeders than gorillas because i hear of more orang births than gorillas in a year.

i seriously think they should listen to me because they aren't getting anywhere with the gorillas.

really they have 3 options:
1)get a different group in
2)find out if there is a virus going around the girls and if there is then sort it out by treating them for it
3)swap the gorillas for orangs as i've repeatedly said before.
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Just because you hear of more Orang births doesn`t mean that more Orangs are being born than Gorillas.;)
 
Surely cheetahgirl's theory that Orangs are in a more stable captive population than gorillas would suggest that collections which have the resources (i.e. ZSL) to manage the less stable species (in this case, apparently gorillas) should continue to do so and allow other collections to deal with the species which is doing "well" in captivity at the moment.

If i'm interpreting his/her point correctly, it would be like Chester going out of Indian Rhino and going into White Rhino instead because the UK population of them is greater than the Indians and the zoo has suffered a little recent misfortune with the species.

Apologies if that wasn't quite coherent enough, it's getting late and I can't think of an easier way to explain my point at this time.
 
Gorilla's are apriority breeding species in the UK. Howlett's/Port Lympne/ Chessington/Bristol are the only collections who have bred gorilla's in the last few years. London's group are un-reprsented so area a priorit group to breed.

There is a stable enough captive breeding programme in the works with Chester breeding both species with 4 young of 2 species born in last 2 years.
 
cheetahgirl said:
i know that orangs are more successfull breeders than gorillas because i hear of more orang births than gorillas in a year.

i seriously think they should listen to me because they aren't getting anywhere with the gorillas.
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Why would a 182 year old zoo want to listen to you, Is there are reason WHY they should??
 
Paulkarli08 said:
London's group are un-reprsented so area a priorit group to breed.
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The three females at London and the newly deceased male, all have relatives at other Zoos and Zaire and Mjuku come from a particularly well represented line, so the representation factor is irrelevant here. But London Zoo will obviously want to continue having a Gorilla group- they are a far bigger attraction/crowd puller than Orangutans, Bonobos or Chimpanzees and potentially one of their major 'draws' for visitors.

Experiencing bad luck with their males(which is really all this is) would not be a good reason for disbanding them and I'm sure that will never happen.
 
procyonlotor said:
Apparently this is similar to what happened to Bobby.

In regards to getting a new male in, this has now become a very complicated, and somewhat delicate issue. . There is most definitely a spanner in the works.
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I never heard a Cause of Death given out publicly for Bobby. Was it this same thing? I know he was found dead in his night nest but not if he was sick beforehand.

Reading between the lines it seems a female is pregnant, probably Mjuku.;) But in that case, I still wouldn't like to see them delay over getting another male in. There are ways they could ensure any baby remains safe while incorporating a new male.
 
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cheetahgirl said:
i know that orangs are more successfull breeders than gorillas because i hear of more orang births than gorillas in a year.
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You really need to evaluate in depth, the breeding records from Zoo Studbooks or other reliable sources before you make a statement like that.
 
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