ZSL London Zoo Sobell Pavillions

C

CZJimmy

Well-Known Member
Hello

After browsing through some of the old gorilla kingdom threads, i was reminded of the Sobell Pavillions. I have only visited the zoo once when they were active, back in 1997 and I can't remember much about them.

Does anyone have layout plans for them or images from the sobell pavillions?

And what did you guys think of them as an overall exhibit?
 
Jimmy, there is a couple of photos in my Gallery of parts of the Sobells Pavillion, one with a baby orang clinging to the mesh and another shot of a Gorllia in the very small indoor area, oh the pics of the Giant Panda were taken there also as they were kept in the Sobell Pavillions.

I thought they were good at the time for some of the smaller apes and larger monkeys, but the Gorllias never had enough space, their indoor section was very small.
 
I've an old International Zoo Yearbook somewhere with plans etc. I'll see if I can find it. The Sobell Pavilions were a great advance on the old Monkey House, although I never found them very attractive as buildings. I agree that they weren't very suitable for the anthropoid apes - too small for reasonably sized groups of chimps or gorillas and not flexible for mixing different combinations of orangs (the ornags also broke the wires in the mesh).
The mangabey and colobus enclosures in Gorilla Kingdom are essentially unchanged - so they can't have been that bad. Don't forget that the enclosure where the colobus are now was also used for the giant pandas for many years.

Alan
 
When i visited gorilla kingdom, the colobus were in quarantine for rabies, so i couldn't see the full size of the group.

just going off topic slightly - do you know if they have been mixed with the gorillas yet?
 
The pair of Giant Pandas used to spend lot of time up in those roof frames sometimes even hanging on by one foot
 
the sobell pavillions were quite good for their time-and a compromise between limited space and the need to maximise the amount of space available to the animals.
the trusses on the roof of the outdoor exhibits were deliberatly put in to stimulate brachitation/canopy. the zoo realised that live vegetation would never last.
a zoo in a different climate to Britain would have been able to get away with this exhibit for some time to come. filled with lush tropical vegetation these exhibits would not seem as dreary,
but in the cold British climate they seemed quite dreary to visitors, although im sure they are still quite functional.
 
gentle lemur said:
I've an old International Zoo Yearbook somewhere with plans etc. I'll see if I can find it.

Alan
Click to expand...

It is volume 16 pages 210-217. I don't have it myself but I looked up the reference in The Buildings of London Zoo. I thought there was a plan in this book but I was mistaken.
 
bongorob said:
It is volume 16 pages 210-217. I don't have it myself but I looked up the reference in The Buildings of London Zoo. I thought there was a plan in this book but I was mistaken.
Click to expand...

I remember when they were being built- and walking around on the site. Everyone was very excited and thought they'd be a huge improvement on the old Monkey House- I suppose they were but they very soon became dated and were never really on a large enough scale anyway.

Later on, keeping the Pandas in one block also detracted from their original purpose I think. The Apes Block was probably the worst feature as it wasn't really on a sufficiently larger scale than the others, so the inmates always looked cramped, both inside and out. The outdoors were designed to have grass growing through a concrete base- it looked ok for a while but more exotic planting was probably impossible( due to damage from the residents) in such small areas. The 'Panda' outdoors was planted up and looked(and still does) much better as a result. Later they put in straw 'deep litter' in the outdoor Ape cages- these made them look scruffier still though probably better for the inmates.

Despite that, the Orangutans and Chimpanzees bred freely in the Sobells. The gorillas were less successful- only 4 births- over the years but I think this was really to do with the logistics of the animals themselves, rather than the effect of their accomodation.

The remaining Colobus, Mangabey and Diana inside areas seem to have stood the test of time however and still seem in working order. Big changes to the design of the outdoor enclosure on the Diana's side has been a huge improvement and I would like to see a similar design partricularly for the Mangabey outdoor enclosure too.
 
I never really liked the Sobell Pavillion, the enclosures never seemed high enough. I see the gibbons now live in one of the Sobell enclosures, which I'm sure they didn't on my first visit. Just across from the Sobell, did there used to be some higher roofed cages with gibbons and ruffed lemurs in?

I think its a shame the Gorilla Kingdom development didn't completely get rid of them.
 
ysQUOTE=^Chris^;29967 Just across from the Sobell, did there used to be some higher roofed cages with gibbons and ruffed lemurs in?

[/QUOTE]

For many years there were two very tall oblong 'aviary' style enclosures situatued along the avenue between the elephant house and the zoo restaurant(difficult to describe location otherwise) One I think had cockatoos or other parrots, the other a family of white-handed gibbons. Only on my last visit did I notice they'd gone. However the whitecheeked Gibbons never lived there to my knowledge, only in the Sobell pavilion cage. The Sobell enclosures were indeed too low for monkeys- that's why I like what they have done to the Diana cage.
 
Pertinax said:
ysQUOTE=^Chris^;29967 Just across from the Sobell, did there used to be some higher roofed cages with gibbons and ruffed lemurs in?
Click to expand...

For many years there were two very tall oblong 'aviary' style enclosures situatued along the avenue between the elephant house and the zoo restaurant(difficult to describe location otherwise) One I think had cockatoos or other parrots, the other a family of white-handed gibbons. Only on my last visit did I notice they'd gone. However the whitecheeked Gibbons never lived there to my knowledge, only in the Sobell pavilion cage. The Sobell enclosures were indeed too low for monkeys- that's why I like what they have done to the Diana cage.[/QUOTE]

I think these cages finally housed Kea before finally getting removed (probably just before they became listed as the only examples of unlisted buidlings in London Zoo or something.....!?). These cages also originally had water in them to prevent the gibbons from sitting on the ground!

D
 
I only remember Lar Gibbons and Red Ruffed Lemurs in the primate one. I have no idea which parrots were housed in the other aviary. I think the gibbons were in the one nearest the restaurant and the birds in the one nearest to the elephant house.
 
bongorob said:
I only remember Lar Gibbons and Red Ruffed Lemurs in the primate one. I have no idea which parrots were housed in the other aviary. I think the gibbons were in the one nearest the restaurant and the birds in the one nearest to the elephant house.
Click to expand...

That's correct. Gibbons were in the one nearer the zoo restaurant. They were a family group,all of an intermediate colour phase- a sort of warm brown-not as attractive as the cream or black phase ones. I think it was various different cockatoos in the other, maybe sulphur-cresteds, roseates etc but I can't really remember.

And yes, they were floored with water (on concrete)- a very strange arrangement.
 
Does anyone have any photos of the douc langur that were kept in the sobells
 
I have a distinct image in my mind of the last douc sitting next to a little talapoin, with their tails entwined. I can visualise it so clearly that I must have seen them doing it or seen a photo, or most likely taken such a photo.
But I have a nasty feeling that any photos I took weren't much good and have ended up in the sin-bin in my garage (I can't bring myself to throw any of my photos away, even when I know they are worthless). I'll try to check, but I may not be able to do it until the New Year.

Alan
 
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I found it! I got the date wrong, as the photo was taken in 1973, but I did remember the image correctly.

DoucZSL.jpg


Alan
 
There's something about that picture that sums up the poorer aspects of keeping 'difficult' species in captivity....:(
 
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