Dudley Zoological Gardens Dudley Zoo 23.4.10

[MonkeyGirlAmy]

Went to the zoo yesterday for the first time in about 5 years (when I worked at a holiday club and we took the kids). I wasn't impressed. Although there have been obvious "improvements" they still aren't what I'd personally class as improvements. The orangs looked so so depressed it broke my heart.
However, the small monkey walk through, the lemur walk through and the Lar gibbons were lovely, especially the gibbons.
I saw NO food in any enclosure, apart from at sealion feeding time. Other than that there was nothing. No enrichment of any kind either
I know that many of the exhibits are listed, which makes improvements challenging.

 

[zoogiraffe]

Just a comment on Orangs depressed is the Orangs default look even Chesters can lok depressed when you look at them thats why London got rid of them back in 1990`s because the public thought they were on happy.

 

[MonkeyGirlAmy]

Just a comment on Orangs depressed is the Orangs default look even Chesters can lok depressed when you look at them thats why London got rid of them back in 1990`s because the public thought they were on happy.

I know their usual look is one of depression and grumpyness but these guys were taking it to the extreme. I sat with Benji by the window of the indoor viewing area for ages and his eyes had glazed over and there was nothing going on inside them whereas Rajang at Colchester who I see every week is totally different, so is Tiga. The Dudley guys sat there in the same spot pretty much all day and didn't do anything - no interaction, nothing. I could tell from looking at them that they were bored and unhappy. Not sure how to explain it but I could just tell. This was more than just a usual orang expression, it was deeper than that

 

[adrian1963]

On my many visits to the zoo I to find the orangutans looking quite depressed and yes I do agree with MonkeyGirlAmy. (This may surprise alot of you).
Then again on other visits I find them very active and using the climbing frames and moving very freely and looking very happy as they play.
Sometimes I will stand and watch them for as long as possible and I've found that one minute they can be moving around and looking happy and the next they will be sitting in the corner looking very much out of it.
I'm no expert on orangutans but many other zoo's I have visited including Chester and Colchester I have witnessed exactly the same thing, happy running around and then sitting looking quite depressed but then again they always look like that to me.

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

The nature of orangs is solitary. To me a captive environment thus has to include various exhibits for individual orangs. This might explain that together they can look a tad *****. You would have to do behavioral research pretty much long term to find out if the orangs at Dudley are really depressed (and not just someone's personal perception).

What tends to be extremely difficult is to provide the more solitary orangs with a good primate exhibit conducive to their individual behaviour and challenging their arboreal capabilities. Most orang exhibits tend to look rather stale on the climbing frames and no foliage dept.

 

[Shorts]

I saw NO food in any enclosure, apart from at sealion feeding time.

You're not seriously suggesting they're starving the animals? Are you?

There are any number of reasons why you saw no food (about to be fed, been fed and ate it all, etc.). I really don't think there's any underlying problem relating to your seeing no food-the animals all looked in fine condition when I visited a couple of weeks ago.

 

[adrian1963]

On the no food (MonkeyGirlAmy) in sight this could be said for many zoo's around the world if you happen to visit them in between feeding or just after the enclosure as been cleaned.
I wouldn't like to see food left lying in an enclosure for to long, especially on the floor as this would bring in vermin and could eventually cause problems for the animals concerned.
I have visited Dudley on many occassions and must say if you are right then that's the first time that the enclosures other than the sea lions have been throughly clean (no food)
So on the day you visited they stopped the feeding of the Tiger, Giraffe, penguins, meerkats, Black bear & Red Panda and all the other animals on the site
This will be very interesting to ask the Head keeper when I visit on 30th as to why the animals are not being fed.

 

[macca]

i don't think that is the point amy was trying to make. at a lot of zoos primates are given scatter feeds throughout the day as foraging for the food is more like their natural environment and is a form of enrichment.

 

[adrian1963]

i don't think that is the point amy was trying to make. at a lot of zoos primates are given scatter feeds throughout the day as foraging for the food is more like their natural environment and is a form of enrichment.

In the original thread she stated thier was no food in ANY enclosure not just the Orangutans

 

[karenZOO]

When I visited in September 09 I was left depressed by the orang utan enclosure BUT the pair on the right hand enclosure were very happy (IMHO) and were busy amusing them selves. One orang utan I think the male (will have to look back at photos) was busy fishing for leaves in the moat. It? was using the hose to hang out to the middle of the moat to pick out leaves and also using a stick to fish with. Fasinating to watch. When they weren't fishing they were happily hugging, kissing, grooming and chasing around the enclosure and just sitting alone.

I always suspect all the apes of being of a much higher intelligence than us! Sometimes when you look into their eyes it is like they are mocking you and have you all sussed out I think them looking depressed it just a plot in their taking over the world

 

[fire&ice]

On my many visits to the zoo I to find the orangutans looking quite depressed and yes I do agree with MonkeyGirlAmy. (This may surprise alot of you).
Then again on other visits I find them very active and using the climbing frames and moving very freely and looking very happy as they play.
Sometimes I will stand and watch them for as long as possible and I've found that one minute they can be moving around and looking happy and the next they will be sitting in the corner looking very much out of it.
I'm no expert on orangutans but many other zoo's I have visited including Chester and Colchester I have witnessed exactly the same thing, happy running around and then sitting looking quite depressed but then again they always look like that to me.

I have to agree with Adrian here as i go at least twice a month to Dudley, one time i go the Orangs are sat looking bored and another time their running round with a sack on their head or throwing things at visitors watching them. The problem with the Orangs at Dudley is that the exterior of their enclosure is depressing

As for there being no food in the enclosures i believe theres good reason for that. Dudley (like many zoo's im sure) runs 'Zoo Keeper for the Day' and plenty of animal talks that include feeds throughout the day - i assure you the animals there get plenty (infact iv often wondered if they get too much).

 

[MonkeyGirlAmy]

By "no food" i'm not implying they are starving anything!!! What I meant was I saw no scatter feeds, no food enrichment. I was there ALL day and didn't see anything get fed excep the sealions. The other zoos I have been to have regularly provided scatter feeds, enrichment feeds etc throughout the day so I was a little surprised to not see this at Dudley.

I agree with the vermin point, but you're never more than 60ft away from a wild rat anyway so they're everywhere and will always find food no matter what environment they are in

 

[fire&ice]

By "no food" i'm not implying they are starving anything!!! What I meant was I saw no scatter feeds, no food enrichment. I was there ALL day and didn't see anything get fed excep the sealions. The other zoos I have been to have regularly provided scatter feeds, enrichment feeds etc throughout the day so I was a little surprised to not see this at Dudley.

Dudley does have daily regular scatter feeds. I was last there on Saturday 16th and on my map there was listed: Tiger Feed (Tiger tales), Meerkat Feed, Penguin Feed, Giraffe Feed (African Adventure) and im not sure but there is a possibility that they still feed Inca (Bear Tales) and have a talk. They regulary announce these over the parks speaker system.

I know this isnt just a weekend thing they do it every day no matter how busy or quiet the zoo is.

 

[MonkeyGirlAmy]

Dudley does have daily regular scatter feeds. I was last there on Saturday 16th and on my map there was listed: Tiger Feed (Tiger tales), Meerkat Feed, Penguin Feed, Giraffe Feed (African Adventure) and im not sure but there is a possibility that they still feed Inca (Bear Tales) and have a talk. They regulary announce these over the parks speaker system.

I know this isnt just a weekend thing they do it every day no matter how busy or quiet the zoo is.

I attended the bear feed and talk but the bloke just talked and didn't feed!!!
I'm sure they do regular feeds, I just didn't see anything on that particular day that's all.

 

[adrian1963]

That's very strange not feeding the Bear while giving the talk,
Will ask as to what as happend this week with the food situation
when I visit later.

 

[MonkeyGirlAmy]

perhaps I just missed them as I was wandering round
the keepers I spoke to seemed lovely and very knowledgeable and happy to answer my questions (in particular the man in the lemur walk through).
even though I don't personally like the zoo in terms of enclosures, I'll be visiting again soon to support them financially with my entrance fee etc as with more visitors and more funding they'll be able to do more - a primate keeper told me the plans for the redevelopment of the outside enclosures for the orangs and they sound fabulous

 

[Devi]

I volunteered there for a year when I was in school and the bears used to be fed by the audience at the talks, with volunteers putting the food along the wall to be used. It was a big crowd pleaser to actually get to feed an animal themselves, it also meant that the bears played up to the public.
I can only imagine that with the lone lady being old she can't cope so well with scatter feeds?
I'm surprised you didn't see any hay with the giraffes, they usually have it all the time inside a rack in their house. Monkey tales also had some fruit in the trees last time I went.

 

[Pertinax]

The problem with the Orangs at Dudley is that the exterior of their enclosure is depressing

That is pretty much the crux of the matter. I don't think the Orangutans at Dudley are any more depressed than at any other Zoos with larger or better enclosures. They do often look 'bored' anyway because they lack the facial muscles which would 'enliven' their expressions to our eyes, so we interpret their dull expressions to the equivalent of our own, which isn't at all relevant.

I think the fact that their surroundings are depressing has a lot to do with our perception of the animals- we feel depressed and so by association we interpret that they must be too- it becomes an overall depressing experience.

Its one of the main reasons I don't visit Dudley any more, not because I think the animals are unhappy or uncared for properly in any way, but because overall I do find it a depressing experience.

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

Indeed, Pertinax. Perceptions, perceptions .... anthropomorphism.

The only but being that in captive environments orang utan exhibits often do "suffer" from a lack of climbing facilities and foliage (which has structural-social great ape considerations at heart when implementing architectural plans). I have only seen good enclosures from an orang utan perspective in Singapore (new exhibits with semi-wild management) and Schmutzer Center, Jakarta. I do feel-think it is rather difficult to reciprocate this environment elsewhere without structural damage to foliage and trees by its intended inhabitant great ape species.

 

[Pertinax]

KB You are very right- virtually no captive environments can cater properly for the specialist needs of Orangutans. A few are getting nearer to it- in the UK Chester's 'Realm of the Red Ape' has by far the best indoor enclosures, and Paignton's outdoor 'natural island' with big trees, by far the best outdoors. So here are two different Zoos- but neither has overall the best enclosure (both inside & out).