Twycross Zoo Serious Gorilla Worries !

[mr primatology]

I am very worried about Asante and how scared she is of oumbi. the fight they had resulted in a nasty gash on her back.
I asked the Gorilla keeper what there doing about it and he told me that there going to swap her with one of the other females from the other enclosure. But judging by the look of her the sooner the better.

Im so worried i wish i new when they will move her

i am going on saturday and it will releave me if she is with the more gentle Bolus .

 

[taun]

Gorillas are hardy creatures, so I would not be too worried about the gash and more worried about her apparent loss of condition (in terms of weight).

I don't know about anyone else but I feel this is a stop backwards in what is an important breeding female. While yes I can sit here and talk not being in a position of looking after such wonderfully animals I would prefer maybe the movement of one of the older females over to join the group. I would hope this would distract Oumbie enough for Asante to settle and hopefully breed.

If Oumbie is going to stay and there is no improvement in Asante I would suggest they send her to group with a very gentle male.

 

[mr primatology]

ure right taun she has lost weight i also beleive that Oumbie was placed as an alpha male at to younger of age so to me he apeers alightly of balance in his activities

 

[Pertinax]

Gorillas are hardy creatures, so I would not be too worried about the gash and more worried about her apparent loss of condition (in terms of weight).

I don't know about anyone else but I feel this is a stop backwards in what is an important breeding female. I would prefer maybe the movement of one of the older females over to join the group. I would hope this would distract Oumbie enough for Asante to settle and hopefully breed.

1. You are spot on with the first statement.

2. Unfortunately I don't think adding another female would really help Asante- her very humanised early background is the real problem here. Having seen them again recently, I don't think there is much chance that she will breed with Oumbie at all.

3. Being humanised makes her a particularly 'problem' case and because of that, sending her to another group with more unfamiliar gorillas would probably just stress her even more, with no breeding outcome. She is really a candidate for AI- except it rarely works in Gorillas!

 

[Pertinax]

ure right taun she has lost weight i also beleive that Oumbie was placed as an alpha male at to younger of age so to me he apeers alightly of balance in his activities

Oumbie is 17 years old- fully mature and certainly not too young to be a group leader. His rather agressive behaviour is more likely to stem from having spent over ten years with just other males at Port Lympne. He hasn't got experience of females or younger gorillas so its taken much longer for him than for Boulas to settle with them. Also Asante being handraised has created its own problems as she doesn't relate to him normally and so he gets frustrated.

 

[mr primatology]

Oumbie is 17 years old- fully mature and certainly not too young to be a group leader. His rather agressive behaviour is more likely to stem from having spent over ten years with just other males at Port Lympne. He hasn't got experience of females or younger gorillas so its taken much longer for him than for Boulas to settle with them. Also Asante being handraised has created its own problems as she doesn't relate to him normally and so he gets frustrated.

thanx pertinax i thought oumbi was quite young but its still ashame whats happening

 

[tomzoo123]

I agree with Taun and agree that rather than move asante it would be best just to bring in one of the older females for a bit.

 

[taun]

I agree with Taun and agree that rather than move asante it would be best just to bring in one of the older females for a bit.

I suppose it really depends on how she is now, I have not seen her in a few months since my last visit. If she really has lost a lot of weight then she may benefit from being moved "temporary" out of the group (well its only temporary)

Pertinax, as usually has highlighted the biggest problem in this situation and that is Asante her self not being able to react to a new gorilla being present.

I would still like to see some type of attempt of breeding her, as that may just calm her down (like it does sometimes in other problem animals).

 

[tomzoo123]

If she did move out the group I hope it would be temporary and not permenant. How would they breed her as she wont go near oumbie. Would taking her out for a bit in place of an older female settle oumbie in more and make asante calmer when she returned?

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

I suppose it really depends on how she is now, I have not seen her in a few months since my last visit. If she really has lost a lot of weight then she may benefit from being moved "temporary" out of the group (well its only temporary)

Pertinax, as usually has highlighted the biggest problem in this situation and that is Asante her self not being able to react to a new gorilla being present.

I would still like to see some type of attempt of breeding her, as that may just calm her down (like it does sometimes in other problem animals).

I know we have had this discussion for a long long time and some have taken exception at the just/unjust criticism aired on this forum by quite a number of posters. However, I cannot help but to remain a sceptic optimist here ... (and please do not hold it against us as I would like to see the whole great ape story continue otherwise) if the described status quo is the best Twycross can come up with.

If this attitude/conviction is really the way that (senior) and direct keeping staff feel with regards to integrating Oumbie and Asante then this is a lost case. Alas, it does go to the very heart of what successful great ape management and planning for primate conservation breeding is ultimately about.

Mind: this coming from a man who still regards that Twycross Zoo should deservingly do justice to the title Primate Zoo of the World (e.g. their pileated gibbon breeding programme).

 

[Pertinax]

If she did move out the group I hope it would be temporary and not permenant. How would they breed her as she wont go near oumbie. Would taking her out for a bit in place of an older female settle oumbie in more and make asante calmer when she returned?

Having seen Asante's current situation recently, I would say there is no hope of her breeding with Oumbie, either short or longerterm. Her relationship with him is unlikely to improve with time so removing her and then later returning her would probably just increase the stress again. Short-term at least, I think trying her with Boulas is a better option. She may not like him any better but he is a calmer male and less likely to make her feel stressed. He is already with the older humanised female 'Bongo' and does not seem to be causing her any problems.

 

[mazfc]

I didn't realise the relationship between Asante and oumbie.

Last sun I actually felt for oumbie as he was desperate to get close to the girls and they were not letting him near - sitting in one door as he sat in the other. He seemed v patient and determined and not agressive at all. Tho I was thinking that babies didn't look likely!

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

Do we agree all that Twycross Zoo should be working towards one functioning social grouping of breeding gorillas? Perhaps then we should leave out those not likely to breed and create a real functioning group.
This has gone for all to long?

What is exactly the EEP coordinator's efforts in all this and where does Twycross gorilla management have its own sway and playing field?

 

[Maguari]

Do we agree all that Twycross Zoo should be working towards one functioning social grouping of breeding gorillas? Perhaps then we should leave out those not likely to breed and create a real functioning group.
This has gone for all to long?

What is exactly the EEP coordinator's efforts in all this and where does Twycross gorilla management have its own sway and playing field?

Bear in mind that Twycross has two completely separate (albeit more-or-less adjacent) gorilla houses and that neither are very big in the scheme of things! I think it's likely to be two small groups for some time yet.

 

[SMR]

Bear in mind that Twycross has two completely separate (albeit more-or-less adjacent) gorilla houses and that neither are very big in the scheme of things! I think it's likely to be two small groups for some time yet.

Do you know if there have ever been any plans to combine those two (three actually) enclosures? Unless things have changed recently, only pathway and lawn separate the two main areas. Admittedly it probably wouldn't work at the moment given the state of the two groups, but I always thought one big area would be an improvement.

 

[Maguari]

Do you know if there have ever been any plans to combine those two (three actually) enclosures? Unless things have changed recently, only pathway and lawn separate the two main areas. Admittedly it probably wouldn't work at the moment given the state of the two groups, but I always thought one big area would be an improvement.

I not aware of any plans or even dreams of connecting the two, but you're right in saying it doesn't look as if it would be too difficult.

(re two vs. three - I think the 'prison yard' house exhibits are open together now and Boulas' group has the whole house, but could be wrong)

 

[Pertinax]

I not aware of any plans or even dreams of connecting the two, but you're right in saying it doesn't look as if it would be too difficult.

There was actually a plan at one stage to link the two enclosures by an underground tunnel- to facilitate the movement of animals- but it didn't happen.

 

[Pertinax]

What is exactly the EEP coordinator's efforts in all this and where does Twycross gorilla management have its own sway and playing field?

EEP recommendations are apparently that a zoo which holds more than one Gorilla group should now have one 'breeding' group and one 'non-breeding' or bachelor male facility.

The two seperate Gorilla enclosures at Twycross (whatever their origins) allow for the formation of this set-up and is probably why they were able to take the male 'Boulas' to form the older 'retirement' group (at least that's what its supposed to be )

However if Twycross feel their combinations(or one of them) aren't working, they will obviously act on their own initiatives as well, as they did with the young male Matadi, and probably now with Asante too.

Its a difficult situation and presumably the EEP will at some stage make further recommendations about the longerterm structure of their groups.

 

[tomzoo123]

EEP recommendations are apparently that a zoo which holds more than one Gorilla group should now have one 'breeding' group and one 'non-breeding' or bachelor male facility.

The two seperate Gorilla enclosures at Twycross (whatever their origins) allow for the formation of this set-up and is probably why they were able to take the male 'Boulas' to form the older 'retirement' group (at least that's what its supposed to be )

However if Twycross feel their combinations(or one of them) aren't working, they will obviously act on their own initiatives as well, as they did with the young male Matadi, and probably now with Asante too.

Its a difficult situation and presumably the EEP will at some stage make further recommendations about the longerterm structure of their groups.

Are Biddy and Bongo capable of breeding still, as in is it still a posibility? Also with Asante if they put her in with the retirement group they could try to acquire a male on loan to breed with her in joes old part?

 

[Pertinax]

Are Biddy and Bongo capable of breeding still, as in is it still a posibility? Also with Asante if they put her in with the retirement group they could try to acquire a male on loan to breed with her in joes old part?

Biddy -yes. Bongo- probably not, as she never has before.

The older house really isn't big enough to keep another male next door to Boulas and I think its almost 100% certain that won't happen.