Mountain Gorilla

[Pertinax]

Antwerp Zoo's 1960's Ape House was indeed very unsuitable for trying to breed from their two pairs of Eastern Lowland Gorillas and as you said it didn't allow for any proper social grouping to develop.

I too don't believe Eastern Lowland and possibly even Mountain Gorillas too, would be any more difficult than Lowland Gorillas to propogate in captivity by today's standards, if they were kept under good conditions in a proper social grouping. But I doubt they will re-enter zoos again now for the reasons already discussed.

 

[Pertinax]

Does any one have any more info on Rueben, the male Mountain Gorilla at London in the early 1960s? I have a guide book from 1962 that mentions him.

Reuben was named after the Tracker who discovered him sitting by the body of a dead silverback(his father?) in the Virungas. It appeared the silverback had become sick and left the group and Reuben, perhaps accidentally, had followed him and lost contact with the group.

How or why he was sent to London Zoo I don't know.

 

[Pertinax]

(I recall seeing Reuben when I was a very small child.)

I don't think I saw him, not that I remember anyway. But I saw the ones at Cologne, both as newly arrived youngsters and again as adults shortly before they died.

 

[Tim May]

I don't think I saw him, not that I remember anyway. But I saw the ones at Cologne, both as newly arrived youngsters and again as adults shortly before they died.

I just missed the mountain gorillas in Cologne; they died not long before my first visit there.

Interestingly, the ZSL Annual Report for 1938 records a mountain gorilla arriving at London Zoo (although its arrival was overshadowed by the first giant pandas that were received the same year); this animal is listed in the Annual Report as a sub-species new to the collection.

I guess the gorilla would have been ‘Meng’ who features in a number of postcards from this period; I assume it was really an eastern lowland rather than a true mountain gorilla?

Do you have any further details about this specimen, Pertinax?

 

[Pertinax]

I guess the gorilla would have been ‘Meng’ who features in a number of postcards from this period; I assume it was really an eastern lowland rather than a true mountain gorilla?

I believe 'Meng' was also an Eastern Lowland but can't verify that. There is also a head study in the 'Golden Days' book of ZSL photos. Young Eastern Lowlands always look quite 'hairy' but not so much as a 'true' Mountain Gorilla. I don't know how long he(?) was there though, probably not very long, as the later Lowlands 'Mok' and 'Moina' were the first Gorillas they managed to keep into near adulthood.

At the time of 'Reuben' (1961) there was also a similiarly shortlived baby Eastern Lowland at the zoo (named Tanga or Rundi?) so at that time, including 'Guy', they briefly exhibited representatives of all the three (then) subspecies.

 

[Tim May]

At the time of 'Reuben' (1961) there was also a similiarly shortlived baby Eastern Lowland at the zoo (named Tanga or Rundi?) so at that time, including 'Guy', they briefly exhibited representatives of all the three (then) subspecies.

Thanks for your response re 'Meng'.

The on-line gorilla studbook lists both a male named ‘Rundi’ and a female named ‘Tanga’ at London Zoo during this period.

The ZSL Annual report for 1962 (the year ‘Reuben’ died) confirms a young female “mountain” gorilla was acquired that year as a mate for ‘Reuben’; another young male “mountain” gorilla was acquired at the same time.

(Although I recall seeing ‘Reuben’ I don’t specifically remember seeing the others.)

 

[Pertinax]

The ZSL Annual report for 1962 (the year ‘Reuben’ died) confirms a young female “mountain” gorilla was acquired that year as a mate for ‘Reuben’; another young male “mountain” gorilla was acquired at the same time.

I knew I had got two names; Tanga & Rundi, from somewhere...

I've looked at those lists. All four Gorillas; Meng, Reuben, Rundi and Tanga are listed on that as G.g. graueri (Eastern Lowland). I think the other three were all of that race, but Reuben was definately a 'beringei' as his origin was well documented.

It appears Reuben and Rundi died within a month of each other,( both in December 62) Tanga a few months later (March 63).

 

[Sun Wukong]

I direct you to the second page, third paragraph of this University of Cambridge journal, I hope this is credible enough for a man/woman of your standing.

Sorry, but I'm not convinced. This is just a piece of an anectotal interary, not a real scientific article with correctly documented, peer-reviewed evidence.

Never did I say that the Mountain gorilla has these anatomical and physiological adaptations. I merely infered that if other species have these adaptions, it is also possible that so does the mountain gorilla. These adaptations may or may not influence it's ability to be kept at lower altitudes.

Yet you implied that such adaptions occur in species living on higher altitiude in general, inclusive mountain gorillas. And you accused me of being hasty and jumping to conclusions for doubting such generalisations, but couldn't provide any proof for such anatomical and physiological adaptions in mountain gorillas. So who of us is "patronising" and "hasty and jumping to conclusions"? If you had addressed me more politely in the first place, we wouldn't have this kind of unnecessary quarrel.

Chest pain would be in my professional opinon would not be a manifestation. I would expect coughing, sneezing, regurgitation, ataxia, dysphagia, dyspnoea and tachycardia. But then what do I know, I am only a qualified Veterinary Surgeon.

I'm not interested in you quoting textbook examples for respiratory disorders (of which actually not apply to all vertebrate species, btw.). In regard to your profession: everyone can claim to be everything on the internet. I have to deal almost every day with veterinarians (or should I say: colleagues, *broad hint*?) whose factual knowledge is, to be honest, more than limited. In particular, when exotic and wild animals are involved...So sorry, but that doesn't impress me much either.

@Pertinax: Thank you for understanding the right context-unlike zooman, whose quick visit from oblivion just to call attention to his personal appretiation of mine (without any connection to the thread) once again portrayed his great interest in my person. Yet I would appretiate it even more when you could approach me directly, and not speak of me in the third person. That would make your contacting more convincing, too, and help me "cool down". As for any alleged "agreements" made: I can't remember that this would equal a charter to accost me without expecting a reply. Thank you.