did you see the footage of him trying to drag the lion by a rope around its throat, and when it collapsed choking on the ground he went up and kicked it in the face?
He's so good with animals....
Zion Wildlife Gardens Lion Man
- Thread starter MARK
- Start date
did you see the footage of him trying to drag the lion by a rope around its throat, and when it collapsed choking on the ground he went up and kicked it in the face?
He's so good with animals....
Panthera-leo
Member
i saw that video too and when i was in with the cubs they would do what cubs would do and sneek up and try to tackle you and then cringe after you stopped them.
they have some issues as does Busch.
they have some issues as does Busch.
Panthera-leo
Member
zoo-boy have you only just finished HSC? so have I ! huh!
I watched the first series of The Lion Man but couldn't handle watching the second because the first infuriated me so much. He preaches about conservation etc, then you see him riding on the back of his lion like a pony. He continually states that white tigers and white lions are incredibly endangered, extinct in the wild, he's saving them from extinction etc etc, all the while implying that they are distinct species rather than mutant freaks. As soon as cubs are born to his tigers they are pulled for hand-rearing to be used in his circus tricks, while he says it is for the good of the species, or because the mother abandoned them, whatever.
The worst thing about the Lion Man though, from a pure zoo viewpoint, leaving aside de-clawing, circus shows, etc, is that he is working entirely outside the other zoos of the region. He imports his own big cats, all of which are useless from a NZ management point of view. His tigers are all regular Bengals or white, his lions are white or "Barbary". I doubt if the other NZ zoos want anything much to do with him, but even if they did the collections are mutually exclusive.
The worst thing about the Lion Man though, from a pure zoo viewpoint, leaving aside de-clawing, circus shows, etc, is that he is working entirely outside the other zoos of the region. He imports his own big cats, all of which are useless from a NZ management point of view. His tigers are all regular Bengals or white, his lions are white or "Barbary". I doubt if the other NZ zoos want anything much to do with him, but even if they did the collections are mutually exclusive.
Just a couple of points. There is no defense for beating his girlfriend. He has a history of this kind of behavior. I have seen lost of places with cats over the years. The design of his facilities is absolutely moronic. The manner they feed, untrained volunteers doing the types of activities that he allows, just waiting for major problems. I have tried to find what conservation efforts that he funds. No response and close sources doubt that he has sent any real funds anywhere.
I have always found it interesting that people are so accepting of him beating his partner and causing the injuries he did. So he caught her in bed with another couple, so what? What kind of pathetic man beats a woman? (And the judge saying his actions were understandable I thought was absolutely ridiculous). And he apparently has had assault charges laid for attacks on former partners. What a hero he is.
NZ Jeremy
Well-Known Member
The facilities...
Hello all I went to this park in May last year, my girlfriend got us tickets for my 24th birthday, her Dad also lives up near the Park...
First thing, I had never watched the show before going and did not really know anything about the park, I wasn’t 'attached' to it in any way...
We met our guide and he first took us see 4 normal coated female bengals in two mesh enclosures... These enclosures were just acceptable, I’ve seen big cats kept in areas this size at zoos, there was a complete lack of any foliage or BE just a big platform in the middle, the areas where say 10 metres by 5 metres...
We then moved through to where 3 white bengals were kept... Shocking..! Two males a one female that were large fully grown animals kept in areas 3 metres across in a hexagon shape… The guide was quick to point out the new forested enclosures being built behind us which again looked just adequate but when I run through all the animals they had there you'll see these enclosures are going to be there for the long haul (maybe indefinitely and they were completely unacceptable..!)
Just up from this 7 or 8 tiger and lion cubs were being kept in another hexagon shaped enclosure of about the same size, thats right 1 enclosure...
The "barbary" lions were kept in an enclosure once again just adequate for a pride (sorry I cannot shed any light on where these came from I actually asked but forgot), say 10 metres by 5 metres of dirt (no features or BE)...
Then the white lion Gandor (who was freakishly huge) and a lioness in a small enclosure...
(By the way I've been calling them enclosures but they are cages, iron fences 5 or so metres high...)
Another normal coloured pride of lions kept similar to the "barbary's" followed...
Before moving up the hill to the juvenile paddock, 6 or 7 juvenile (some almost full grown) lions and tigers were kept in a paddock (I can't describe it better than that), at least this paddock had grass and a tree or two but most shocking was the fact the fence was only 6 FEET high and I have no doubt that the largest tiger could have gotten out at any time, hell I could have jumped out and I’m a HUMAN...
Moving back down towards the entrance we saw the black leopard kept in what looked like a old round aviary say 4 - 5 metres across, then the baboon kept on her own in a cage that looked like someone had put mesh over the front of their cupboard and a pair of servals kept in a chain link cage (and a small cage at that)...
Back towards the front of the zoo is a chain link cage (including roof) about the size of 2 large master bedrooms which kept the original (at the park) pair of elderly lions (if I remember correctly). If these animals were ex circus, as I think they said, then this enclosure was surely an improvement on their old life...
Another pride of 'normal' lions was down here on the flat with iron fence surrounding them say 5 x 5 metres (all 3 of the pride of lion enclosures were about this size with no foliage or BE)...
The cheetah enclosure was the same again (a bit larger), maybe 8 x 4 metres with 3 metre high chain link fence, if he thinks he's breeding them in here he's sorely mistaken (I'd suggest he knows he's not), the Western zoos that had initial successes in breeding them were Washington Zoo and San Diego Zoo, who had to keep them off exhibit and in far superior enclosures... When we were there ‘The Lion Man’ and a member of the public were in this enclosure and the cheetahs were hissing and snapping at them obviously very distressed and they stayed in their 5 minutes..!
Finally there was a small group of deer wandering around the park completely free to go wherever they please...
*shakes head*
So that’s the layout and animals, I had so many concerns about the place it was ridiculous, my gf spent the entire tour shaking her head at me every time I opened my mouth and the tour guide was getting quite uncomfortable and sick of me by the end...
Some of my concerns are:
- Where the hell is he going to put all these cubs and juveniles..? They said on the tour they were having money problems and in the next few years (unless they are going to find them a new home or sell them) they are going to have something like 15 or so more big cats (when the young ones grow up) to house... My guess: He's breeding them to sell to finance building...
- The enclosures, the best I saw were bad... Simple...
- Pretending this place has anything to do with conservation... The best it can claim is that by seeing big cats children/people will be inspired to protect them but even this is marginalised because the park also shows its ok to keep them in poor conditions... Also pretending the melanistic animals are separate species and endangered is misleading an already relatively clueless public…
- What happens to these animals when the park goes bust..? Or "The Lion Douche" (sorry, I mean "Man"), dies or gets bored, mauled, sells or goes to jail...
- The park is obviously about feeding this guy's ego (for the life of me I can't think of the purpose of this place) and keeping animals which display melanistic or recessive (does that mean the same thing?) traits, see:
White tigers
White lions
Barbary lions
Black leopards
I bet it is only a matter of time before he acquires king cheetahs and black jaguars and starts to advertise as the only park in the world with all these 'rare' and 'endangered' cats (about the same time stories of his selling some of his cats to disreputable zoos/people will appear methinks...)
- The park is an accident waiting to happen, public, untrained staff and an egomaniac in unsatisfactory enclosures with large wild predators = trouble...
I have more concerns but can't remember them all, I'm sick of typing and some girl is getting changed in the window in the house across from mine, let me just say IN MY OPINION don't go there, don't watch the show, don't support this place and hope all ends well...
Peace out...
Hello all I went to this park in May last year, my girlfriend got us tickets for my 24th birthday, her Dad also lives up near the Park...
First thing, I had never watched the show before going and did not really know anything about the park, I wasn’t 'attached' to it in any way...
We met our guide and he first took us see 4 normal coated female bengals in two mesh enclosures... These enclosures were just acceptable, I’ve seen big cats kept in areas this size at zoos, there was a complete lack of any foliage or BE just a big platform in the middle, the areas where say 10 metres by 5 metres...
We then moved through to where 3 white bengals were kept... Shocking..! Two males a one female that were large fully grown animals kept in areas 3 metres across in a hexagon shape… The guide was quick to point out the new forested enclosures being built behind us which again looked just adequate but when I run through all the animals they had there you'll see these enclosures are going to be there for the long haul (maybe indefinitely and they were completely unacceptable..!)
Just up from this 7 or 8 tiger and lion cubs were being kept in another hexagon shaped enclosure of about the same size, thats right 1 enclosure...
The "barbary" lions were kept in an enclosure once again just adequate for a pride (sorry I cannot shed any light on where these came from I actually asked but forgot), say 10 metres by 5 metres of dirt (no features or BE)...
Then the white lion Gandor (who was freakishly huge) and a lioness in a small enclosure...
(By the way I've been calling them enclosures but they are cages, iron fences 5 or so metres high...)
Another normal coloured pride of lions kept similar to the "barbary's" followed...
Before moving up the hill to the juvenile paddock, 6 or 7 juvenile (some almost full grown) lions and tigers were kept in a paddock (I can't describe it better than that), at least this paddock had grass and a tree or two but most shocking was the fact the fence was only 6 FEET high and I have no doubt that the largest tiger could have gotten out at any time, hell I could have jumped out and I’m a HUMAN...
Moving back down towards the entrance we saw the black leopard kept in what looked like a old round aviary say 4 - 5 metres across, then the baboon kept on her own in a cage that looked like someone had put mesh over the front of their cupboard and a pair of servals kept in a chain link cage (and a small cage at that)...
Back towards the front of the zoo is a chain link cage (including roof) about the size of 2 large master bedrooms which kept the original (at the park) pair of elderly lions (if I remember correctly). If these animals were ex circus, as I think they said, then this enclosure was surely an improvement on their old life...
Another pride of 'normal' lions was down here on the flat with iron fence surrounding them say 5 x 5 metres (all 3 of the pride of lion enclosures were about this size with no foliage or BE)...
The cheetah enclosure was the same again (a bit larger), maybe 8 x 4 metres with 3 metre high chain link fence, if he thinks he's breeding them in here he's sorely mistaken (I'd suggest he knows he's not), the Western zoos that had initial successes in breeding them were Washington Zoo and San Diego Zoo, who had to keep them off exhibit and in far superior enclosures... When we were there ‘The Lion Man’ and a member of the public were in this enclosure and the cheetahs were hissing and snapping at them obviously very distressed and they stayed in their 5 minutes..!
Finally there was a small group of deer wandering around the park completely free to go wherever they please...
*shakes head*
So that’s the layout and animals, I had so many concerns about the place it was ridiculous, my gf spent the entire tour shaking her head at me every time I opened my mouth and the tour guide was getting quite uncomfortable and sick of me by the end...
Some of my concerns are:
- Where the hell is he going to put all these cubs and juveniles..? They said on the tour they were having money problems and in the next few years (unless they are going to find them a new home or sell them) they are going to have something like 15 or so more big cats (when the young ones grow up) to house... My guess: He's breeding them to sell to finance building...
- The enclosures, the best I saw were bad... Simple...
- Pretending this place has anything to do with conservation... The best it can claim is that by seeing big cats children/people will be inspired to protect them but even this is marginalised because the park also shows its ok to keep them in poor conditions... Also pretending the melanistic animals are separate species and endangered is misleading an already relatively clueless public…
- What happens to these animals when the park goes bust..? Or "The Lion Douche" (sorry, I mean "Man"), dies or gets bored, mauled, sells or goes to jail...
- The park is obviously about feeding this guy's ego (for the life of me I can't think of the purpose of this place) and keeping animals which display melanistic or recessive (does that mean the same thing?) traits, see:
White tigers
White lions
Barbary lions
Black leopards
I bet it is only a matter of time before he acquires king cheetahs and black jaguars and starts to advertise as the only park in the world with all these 'rare' and 'endangered' cats (about the same time stories of his selling some of his cats to disreputable zoos/people will appear methinks...)
- The park is an accident waiting to happen, public, untrained staff and an egomaniac in unsatisfactory enclosures with large wild predators = trouble...
I have more concerns but can't remember them all, I'm sick of typing and some girl is getting changed in the window in the house across from mine, let me just say IN MY OPINION don't go there, don't watch the show, don't support this place and hope all ends well...
Peace out...
Last edited:
hey Jeremy,
I knew you'd been there and was wondering your thoughts on the place, especially as you say you had no prior knowledge of the TV series or anything. Pretty much sounds like what I suspected it would be like.
I also had my suspicions about the numbers of cubs being produced, although my thoughts were more towards breeding as many as possible for circus acts. Selling them does sound more likely though.
It's probably obvious, but what does BE stand for?
there was a rumour last year that he was going to skip the country to avoid all the poeple he owes money to, although that seems to have been wrong. If he had, some of the cats would have been rehoused but many of them may have had to have been put down (?) (just my thoughts)
I knew you'd been there and was wondering your thoughts on the place, especially as you say you had no prior knowledge of the TV series or anything. Pretty much sounds like what I suspected it would be like.
I also had my suspicions about the numbers of cubs being produced, although my thoughts were more towards breeding as many as possible for circus acts. Selling them does sound more likely though.
It's probably obvious, but what does BE stand for?
there was a rumour last year that he was going to skip the country to avoid all the poeple he owes money to, although that seems to have been wrong. If he had, some of the cats would have been rehoused but many of them may have had to have been put down (?) (just my thoughts)
NZ Jeremy
Well-Known Member
Behavioural enrichment...
I have no idea but thats my thinking too... Whose gonna take them..? It seems no reputable zoo wants anything to do with him and even if they did where would they put them...
There was about 30 (fully grown) big cats in sub-standard (but relatively safe) enclosures and another 15 or so cubs and sub-adults on the way (that I saw, how many were off exhibit?), while I was there they were building two more enclosures that they said where for the two white male tigers (I guarantee they end up housing three or so female tigers each or two more prides of related, lions instead) which they said couldn't afford to pay for at that time...
I went 9 months ago they've grown alot since then and who knows how many more litters have been born...
No, no, no, something is gonna give here, so far the bad press has been mainly about this guy's personal life but in the next few years some stories are gonna come out about mistreatment from one of the people he's (quietly) sold his animals too (maybe even at the park) or a tiger is gonna flip out and bite someone on the back of the neck (maybe even him) or his show will get cancelled (no more money), or, or, or...
It is a roadside zoo in the true meaning of the term... I actually might e-mail the TV channels here, a zoo like Wellington, a ARAZPA member, trying to modernise could do with the TV money more than this guy...
Last edited:
@NZ Jeremy: once again you have posted a fabulous, detailed review of a zoo...even though it is sadly a roadside zoo that should be torn down. I'm extremely curious how many of the enclosures have been improved in the 9 months since your visit, but the place does sound like a ticking time bomb. Either one of the countless big cats will escape, or perhaps someone will be injured.
I agree with you in regards to the white animals, and even the barbaries but a black leopard is totally natural and IMO relevant to educating the public. unlike the white animals, being black is an adaption that has a positive effect on the animals ability to hide and blend in with it's natural habitat. Also breeding two black cats does not assure black cubs unlike with white lions. (I believe). I think black cats are not "freak shows" or "circus acts" like some people have said about the whites. I am not saying, however that lion man doesn't use them as this. Am interested in what you think about the black cats.
NZ Jeremy
Well-Known Member
@Snowleopard: I am very worried someone will get hurt...
Siegfried and Roy apparently kept their cats in magnificent facilities and they had decades of experience but all it takes is one moment and one animal and for 'instinct' to kick in and bam, all over...
I didn't know he declawed his animals which makes the place even more reprehensible IMO but it shows attack is obviously something he is worried about...
As an aside: My personal opinion is that there should be no contact with grown big cats ever and hand rearing only when required... I think places like this one, Australia Zoo and Dreamworld are in effect time bombs with no clock...
Siegfried and Roy apparently kept their cats in magnificent facilities and they had decades of experience but all it takes is one moment and one animal and for 'instinct' to kick in and bam, all over...
I didn't know he declawed his animals which makes the place even more reprehensible IMO but it shows attack is obviously something he is worried about...
As an aside: My personal opinion is that there should be no contact with grown big cats ever and hand rearing only when required... I think places like this one, Australia Zoo and Dreamworld are in effect time bombs with no clock...
Last edited:
NZ Jeremy
Well-Known Member
@Jarkari:
They are all naturally occuring traits...
Black Leopards and Jaguars are just much more frequently occuring and widespread...
I have no problems exhibiting Black Leopards/Jaguars at zoos if they occured naturally as part of a breeding program...
I have read that black versions of these cats have shorter life expectancy (in the wild) and are found mainly in the rainforest regions of their ranges...
I also wouldn't object to White Tigers being kept in zoos so strongly,
a). If there was room to waste and all 5 remaining sub-species weren't so endangered, and
b). If all white tigers were not inbreed/crossbreed... All of them come from a male caught in India (so bengali) in the 50s, he was breed with his daughter to produce the white gene hence all of them since have some inherent inbreeding... Additionally none remain that can be proved weren't crossed with Amurs at some point to increase their size...
King cheetahs and white lions are from tiny parts of their range and as some suggested may be a result of wild inbreeding unlike the black leopards/jags which may gain an advantage in the rainforest from their dark coat, these other two don't seem to have a discenable advantage from these mutations (as yet)...
They are all naturally occuring traits...
Black Leopards and Jaguars are just much more frequently occuring and widespread...
I have no problems exhibiting Black Leopards/Jaguars at zoos if they occured naturally as part of a breeding program...
I have read that black versions of these cats have shorter life expectancy (in the wild) and are found mainly in the rainforest regions of their ranges...
I also wouldn't object to White Tigers being kept in zoos so strongly,
a). If there was room to waste and all 5 remaining sub-species weren't so endangered, and
b). If all white tigers were not inbreed/crossbreed... All of them come from a male caught in India (so bengali) in the 50s, he was breed with his daughter to produce the white gene hence all of them since have some inherent inbreeding... Additionally none remain that can be proved weren't crossed with Amurs at some point to increase their size...
King cheetahs and white lions are from tiny parts of their range and as some suggested may be a result of wild inbreeding unlike the black leopards/jags which may gain an advantage in the rainforest from their dark coat, these other two don't seem to have a discenable advantage from these mutations (as yet)...
Last edited:
NZ Jeremy
Well-Known Member
I don't know anything about this more than what I've read on this thread... I'm basing it entirely on what others have said on this thread, sorry...
Last edited:
panthera-leo said:
so all the animals he has bred are de-clawed, the animals he has got as adults apparently are not. That's what i understood from the above anyway.
Jarkari said:
there was a move to outlaw dog tail docking in NZ but I don't know if it went through or not.
Dog welfare code targets tail docking - 18 Sep 2007 - NZ Herald: New Zealand National news
NZ Jeremy said:
I doubt TV cares. I was hoping TV2 wouldn't screen the second series after all the crap about Busch came out, but they went ahead and did it anyway. Its only money that counts in this world I'm afraid.
Last edited:
NZ Jeremy
Well-Known Member
Good point I remember when I first heard about the wife beating I thought there goes that Lion Man's show... I too was suprised it survived...
Try:
QUOTE=
instead of:
quote =
OK fixed now
NZ Jeremy
Well-Known Member
No sorry, my girlfriend took a whole lot of images but when she went to download them her camera went on the fritz..! Argh..!
The only image I could find that showed any of the cages on their website was the fourth down on here:
Zion Wildlife Gardens
That's some of the nicer chain link they had there (if that makes sense)...
You may find the conservation page as hilarious as I did...
This image shows the baboon in its enclosure and her condition:
Scratch my back - Photos from "Zion Wildlife Gardens"
It wasn’t much wider than this and square… I forgot to mention they feed her lollies on every tour and allow every person to touch her (zoonosis much?)…
The background in this shows one of the hexagon shaped enclosures in was talking about (I think), note the bathing is in a cow trough:
Bengal Tiger (Shikana), Zion Wildlife Gardens, Whangarei, NZ pictures from wildlife photos on webshots
This one looks like one of the 'pride of lion' enclosures I was talking about, 5 or so metres squared, the ground is this barren in almost every enclosure and (ad neasuem) no BE:
White Lion (Gandor) and Barbary Lion (Shakira), Zion Wildlife Gardens, Whangarei, NZ pictures from wildlife photos on webshots
I don't think this enclosure was there when I was but is pretty typical, only with a log:
White Lion Cub, Zion Wildlife Gardens, Whangarei, NZ pictures from wildlife photos on webshots
The enclosures are barren, the average one for a pride of lions would be twice the width of the rear fence show here squared:
White Lion Cub, Zion Wildlife Gardens, Whangarei, NZ pictures from wildlife photos on webshots
My memory of this place seems quite close although the cages might be 1 or 2 metres wider than I remembered...
Update: called my missus and she reconds she's got some photos (only a few got corrupted), I'll try and post them tomorrow...
The only image I could find that showed any of the cages on their website was the fourth down on here:
Zion Wildlife Gardens
That's some of the nicer chain link they had there (if that makes sense)...
You may find the conservation page as hilarious as I did...
This image shows the baboon in its enclosure and her condition:
Scratch my back - Photos from "Zion Wildlife Gardens"
It wasn’t much wider than this and square… I forgot to mention they feed her lollies on every tour and allow every person to touch her (zoonosis much?)…
The background in this shows one of the hexagon shaped enclosures in was talking about (I think), note the bathing is in a cow trough:
Bengal Tiger (Shikana), Zion Wildlife Gardens, Whangarei, NZ pictures from wildlife photos on webshots
This one looks like one of the 'pride of lion' enclosures I was talking about, 5 or so metres squared, the ground is this barren in almost every enclosure and (ad neasuem) no BE:
White Lion (Gandor) and Barbary Lion (Shakira), Zion Wildlife Gardens, Whangarei, NZ pictures from wildlife photos on webshots
I don't think this enclosure was there when I was but is pretty typical, only with a log:
White Lion Cub, Zion Wildlife Gardens, Whangarei, NZ pictures from wildlife photos on webshots
The enclosures are barren, the average one for a pride of lions would be twice the width of the rear fence show here squared:
White Lion Cub, Zion Wildlife Gardens, Whangarei, NZ pictures from wildlife photos on webshots
My memory of this place seems quite close although the cages might be 1 or 2 metres wider than I remembered...
Update: called my missus and she reconds she's got some photos (only a few got corrupted), I'll try and post them tomorrow...
Last edited: