Black rhinos in Europe

Jelle:
Who are two black rhinos in Cologne? Did they ever breed?

Were black rhinos ever succesfully mixed with smaller animals? I guess at least female in large enclosure can be compatible.

Do black rhinos have some exhibit size when they start breeding reliably? I always thought that they get lots of problems in small paddocks - they get incompatible, infertile, aggressive, but zoos with medium and large paddocks simply breed them.

cheers,
 
Jurek7 said:
Jelle:

Do black rhinos have some exhibit size when they start breeding reliably? I always thought that they get lots of problems in small paddocks - they get incompatible, infertile, aggressive, but zoos with medium and large paddocks simply breed them.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily... the original pair at Bristol Zoo lived happily together and bred five times in a very small house and outdoor yard- but they'd grown up from quite young together so were compatable. Hanover's original house and sand yard was pretty small too yet they bred too. Paignton also now have a successful breeding pair- but still only a small/medium sized outdoor enclosure.

Generally speaking much larger enclosures are valuable, especially where the potential breeding partners are unfamiliar with each other so there may be violent fighting (which is also part of courtship) and they need space to 'let of steam' during courship chases etc. So yes, the bigger paddocks are far more suitable- but success really depends on the compatability/ fertility of the animals themselves as well.
 
The rhinos in Cologne are Taco (ex Hannover) and Tisa (ex Berlin) and they are not breedng (yet??). The enclosure in Cologne is very small and barren and totally unsuitable to introduce rhinos to each other. I have seen them together a couple of times but I have no idea if there is any possibility that he will mate her sucessfully. If this doesn`t happen soon I think they should move her to a zoo where she can breed with an experienced male, she has already lost a lot of time in unsucessful tries with Taco.

The black rhino enclosures in Krefeld and Magdeburg Zoo are also very small and barren, yet the rhinos breed sucessfully there.
 
Thanks for info about chases and fights forming part of the courtship. I understand that calm individuals can be bred in small exhibits, but most need larger space to breed.

Maybe project coordinators might take into account temperament of animal, when recommending moves?

I wonder, what is borderline size, where two aggresive romantic rhinos are reasonably safe?

A bit sad that two rhinos in Cologne are young. I hoped they are old non-breeders. Zoo seems to have no plans of decent-sized exhibit for them. Nnow hippo-crocodile aquarium is under way. Maybe they invent something on the place of current bison-muskox paddocks.

I wondered if one can keep e.g. meerkats or ground squirrels with black rhinos...
 
Jurek7 said:
A bit sad that two rhinos in Cologne are young. I hoped they are old non-breeders. Zoo seems to have no plans of decent-sized exhibit for them. Nnow hippo-crocodile aquarium is under way. Maybe they invent something on the place of current bison-muskox paddocks./QUOTE]

The Koeln Zoo pair is - to my eye - not compatible. I heard rumours that this year they will break up the pair and introduce a new bull with Tisa. I agree that the exhibit should be bigger given that the pair is not at ease at close range. I am convinced that if they would have access to the whole house they would be expected to breed more readily. Taco at least is a keen bull here! :D

Whether it is suitable to have other species in the same paddocks as black rhinos is anyone's guess .....! For sure it is an extra stress factor for the already sensitive black rhino. So, it should be handled with care. However, I am not of the conviction that black rhino are totally unsocial (that is a popular misconception among ... some quarters viz behaviour in nature where several individuals congegrate together (the Port Lympne and Dvur groups like to mirror this behaviour in their black rhinos).

Courtship wise the exhibit should be large as the potential for antagonistic behaviour is surely there. It is not something to be overtly concerned about, it is just the natural way of black rhino love-making! ;) If you let the pair get on with it they will come to some form of peaceful co-existence. AND the female is ALWAYS the initiator of courtship behaviour. She is definitely in charge when it comes to choosing her prospective partner!~!*!
Click to expand...
 
Pertinax said:
Jelle- do you know at which European zoo the bull 'Parky' (born Whipsnade, then formerly at Chester and Port Lympne) was sent to and whether he is still alive?

It seems a bit of a shame that Whipsnade zoo is not in the Black rhino breeding game these days, after doing so well over the years with the White rhinos and now with the Indian rhinos I am sure they could do well with a new modern exhibit.
Click to expand...
 
Thanks! In Cologne rhinos seemed very stressed in small paddocks sandwiched between old building and major path. It seemed very bad way to exhibit them.
 
Jurek7 said:
Thanks for info about chases and fights forming part of the courtship. I understand that calm individuals can be bred in small exhibits, but most need larger space to breed.

I wonder, what is borderline size, where two aggresive romantic rhinos are reasonably safe?
Click to expand...

That's a good summary- I think individuals familiar and compatable do okay in small enclosures- even here they will fight and joust during courtship but its not serious aggression. I think for unfamiliar rhinos, the bigger the paddock the better to allow them to run freely, to tire themselves out or escape each other without any harm done. I can't give an exact 'borderline' size but I imagine Paignton's 'medium sized' enclosure is an example, its not huge but there is a decent indoor area, a large (divided)yard and a small grassy paddock used in summer or during mating.
 
Yassa said:
The rhinos in Cologne are Taco (ex Hannover) and Tisa (ex Berlin) and they are not breedng (yet??). I have seen them together a couple of times but I have no idea if there is any possibility that he will mate her sucessfully. If this doesn`t happen soon I think they should move her to a zoo where she can breed with an experienced male, she has already lost a lot of time in unsucessful tries with Taco.

The black rhino enclosures in Krefeld and Magdeburg Zoo are also very small and barren, yet the rhinos breed sucessfully there.
Click to expand...

Maybe 'Taco' and 'Tisa' are similar aged? Zoos often make up new pairs using similar aged pairs when really a mature(preferably experienced) bull is needed, otherwise breeding years are wasted while the cow is already mature but the bull isn't capable. But not always, it varies in each situation....

Regarding enclosure size- yes, with compatable pairs enclosure size seems almost irrelevant. e.g. Bristol's breeding pair(1950/60's) had just a circular concrete yard about 25 metres diameter with a single tree stump in the centre!
 
MARK said:
Pertinax said:
It seems a bit of a shame that Whipsnade zoo is not in the Black rhino breeding game these days
Click to expand...

Marky- I reckon you won't see Black Rhino at Whipsnade again. I think moving them to the large paddock, sited just opposite the Giraffe House and old sealion pool, was their attempt to improve their accomodation, but the irony was the four different rhinos(listed above) that lived in that enclosure over a period of about fifteen years didn't breed, yet the previous pair(+ another male who fathered 'Parky') had done so in the older,smaller enclosure which you'll no doubt remember.

In fact,the female Emma didn't breed with either KataKata or Quinto, while her replacemrent Saya(from Berlin) was only there a matter of months before she died- I don't know what happened with her. Presumably it was enough for them to decide they shouldn't try to get any more and give up with the species.

'Parky'(Rupert x Mama) was in fact the only Black rhino born at Whipsnade to reach maturity, though a couple of other calves produced there later died at the zoos they were sent to.
Click to expand...
 
Many wild black rhinos (especially on pics from before 1970s population crash) have such incredibly wonderful, long, pointed horns.

I wonder if zoos could do something to prevent wear of their rhinos' horns, purely for estetic reasons. Stall walls lined with soft material? Bunches of thick branches on sides and as sparring partners?
 
Jurek7 said:
Many wild black rhinos (especially on pics from before 1970s population crash) have such incredibly wonderful, long, pointed horns.

I wonder if zoos could do something to prevent wear of their rhinos' horns, purely for estetic reasons. Stall walls lined with soft material? Bunches of thick branches on sides and as sparring partners?
Click to expand...

The two 'classics' which appeared in very many photographs were two cows which lived in (I think) Amboseli during the 1950/60's era & nicknamed 'Gladys' and 'Gertie' - their horns grew to such enormous lengths they resembled prehistoric animals. I think Amboseli used to be justly famous for its longhorned rhinos.

I agree very few zoos seem to cater for rhino horn 'manicure' and in zoos the horns are usually 'blocky' not smooth and pointed as in the wild. Perhaps artificial termite mounds for rubbing them on, and as you suggest, branches to push through might help the horns get shaped more naturally.
 
Pertinax said:
The two 'classics' which appeared in very many photographs were two cows which lived in (I think) Amboseli during the 1950/60's era & nicknamed 'Gladys' and 'Gertie' - their horns grew to such enormous lengths they resembled prehistoric animals. I think Amboseli used to be justly famous for its longhorned rhinos.

I agree very few zoos seem to cater for rhino horn 'manicure' and in zoos the horns are usually 'blocky' not smooth and pointed as in the wild. Perhaps artificial termite mounds for rubbing them on, and as you suggest, branches to push through might help the horns get shaped more naturally.
Click to expand...

I don't think zoo's would ever want their black rhino to get horns like that due to the serious damage they could do with such a point. I know they can still do some real damage with a bulkier horn, but a horn with a point like that would probably just go straight through the skin.
 
Well, I think zoos care for their rhinos without direct contact, anyway. For me, such animal would be doubly attractive. :)
 
It is unrealistic to hope for black rhinos in zoos with nice long pointed horns. Outdoor exhibitwise they might do well with shrubs and boulders to rub their horns up to, however it is the inside areas that preclude the full development of a great horn. Iron bars and doors sure put paid to that.

Besides I suspect most zoos do not want their rhinos to hurt eachother on confrontation and make a concerted effort to have the horns shaped rather blunt and short ......!
 
jelle said:
It is unrealistic to hope for black rhinos in zoos with nice long pointed horns. Outdoor exhibitwise they might do well with shrubs and boulders to rub their horns up to, however it is the inside areas that preclude the full development of a great horn. Iron bars and doors sure put paid to that.
Click to expand...

Somewhere in a European zoo I have in the past seen Black Rhinos which had sharper, more rounded horns(but not longer) than is the norm for zoos- it wasn't just one rhino but two or three so it was obviously the husbandry. (memory, memory:rolleyes:) I think it may have been Zurich?
 
taun said:
I don't think zoo's would ever want their black rhino to get horns like that due to the serious damage they could do with such a point.
Click to expand...

Anyway, you would never see long horns like on those Amboseli cows in captivity, it just wouldn't happen, if they were slender like that they'd get broken off time and time again....
 
Bull Davu from Krefeld was transported to Dvur Kralove Zoo, Czech Republic on April 3, 2008. At Dvur he will be paired up with Etosha after completing quarantaine requirements untill he reaches puberty.

Dvur is well placed to receive him as the prime breeder of eastern black rhinos in Europe. In 2006 1.1 and equally in 2007 2.0 were born at the zoo. This is testament to the good track record in black rhino breeding Dvur has built up since 1978 and in those years of keeping black rhinos, the small bull born in November 2007 was number 32 in all! :eek: :D :cool:
 
Weren't Chester supposed to be receiving an additional cow from Dvur? There's been no news/mention/discussion about this recently on the Chester threads...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top