Indian rhinos in Europe

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Yassa said:
Hugo - born in Rotterdam, Namaste x Nico. Nico was born in Plankendahl and Namaste in Stuttgart.

Belur has been born in the Animal Park Berlin, I am not sure about his parents, but I don`t believe he has many siblings. Maybe one but not sure if that animal is alive.
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Thanks Yassa.

So 'Hugo' has some Basel blood too as I think the original Stuttgart pair were from Basel?

Do you mean 'Belur' was born in 'West' Berlin Zoo or the 'Tierpark' where he is now?
 
Belur was born in the Animal Park, and I guess his parents were wild-caught. I am not sure on this, though. I`ll see if I can find more info about the Stuttgart rhino anciestry but I guess jelle will know more for sure!
 
Yassa said:
Belur was born in the Animal Park, and I guess his parents were wild-caught. I can find more info about the Stuttgart rhino anciestry but I guess jelle will know more for sure!
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Sorry- Which do you mean by the 'Animal Park'- West or East?

Stuttgart's original pair definately came from Basel- possibly closer than half brother and sister ( being from the Basel mother and daughter respectively) I think they may have been called 'Nanda' and 'Puri' but not certain on that (memory...:confused:)
 
Uups sorry, the "zoo" is West Berlin, the "animal park" (= Tierpark) is East Berlin. These are the names used in Germany to keep both institutions apart (and usually I have to explain to non-zoo-goes that the animal park is a full "zoo" too with actually more elephants and big cats then the zoo).
 
Okay, so 'Belur' was born in East Berlin. Unless Jelle tells us otherwise my guess too his parents were w/c and both are long dead. So then they got 'Jahnsi' from San Diego as a mate for him and very luckily she was already pregnant (from a San Diego male) with 'Betty.' Now they have the bull and 2 cows both unrelated to him. It seems strange he's aggressive with Jahnsi (I heard that he bites her very hard during courship/mating!) to the extent she won't mate with him anymore, yet he can still breed okay with Betty.
 
Regarding your queries:

1. Belur is a special case for treatment (Jhansi-wise, he indeed bites her ... knows why):D Belur was born to a Mysore Zoo born bull (with no other reps in EEP) and a Nepali wild caught cow (died in 2003). So, genetically speaking he is extremely valuable to the EEP.

The latter is probably the reason the EEP is now candidating Jacob for a breeding position with young cow Shikari.

2. Hugo was born of a Planckendael born bull (part Assamese bull + Basel cow) and Stuttgart born cow (Basel line in extremo). His combination is less useful, but will add a new line to the UK Indian rhino groupings.

3. Cow Shikari (born October 2006) is an offspring of a Stuttgart bred bull (again Basel line in extremo) coupled with a wild-caught Nepali cow. Ironically, this makes the Stuttgart calves highly desirable from a genetic perspective.
 
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Patna is Belur`s son (mother Betty) and therefore extremely important genetically, while Jakob :D is the son of Jhansi and Yodha (the male from the west Berlin Zoo - Belur and Jhansi are not coming along as mentioned here correctly). Patna is Belur`s first offspring I think, the second is daugther Saathi who is now approx. 2 years, and the third is underway (Betty being pregnant again).

Is Yodha genetically important too, Jelle?

By the way Pertinax, I think rhinos are like humans sometimes, Belur just can`t stand Jhansi. Just like many male gorillas not mating with a specific female.
 
Jelle your knowledge of rhinos in Europe is amazing, hehe, glad to have you on board
 
1. Jacob is a Yodha (Whipsnade born) x Jhansi (SD-WAP line) calf.
2. Patna is a Belur (Berlin TP line) x Betty (SD-WAP line) calf.

Both a reasonably important genetically, allthough more so for Patna then his older halfbrother.
 
Trade off

Hot off the press!!!!! :D

The last female calf Baatschi (born 2004) will leave Basel Zoo for Whipsnade.
Bull Jaffna will shortly travel back to his erstwhile abode (I suppose he has a second breeding recommendation for the over reps Basel line).
 
So Whipsnade will yet have another young female rhino yet to breed with, with one bull leaving and another coming in, how will the new look herd be made up of, looks like they may need to upgrade the old rhino house when the new one is finished, sounds like they may have the largest herd in Europe?
 
Yassa said:
Is Yodha genetically important too, Jelle?

By the way Pertinax, I think rhinos are like humans sometimes, Belur just can`t stand Jhansi. Just like many male gorillas not mating with a specific female.
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Yodha is the 2nd offspring of the old Whipsnade\Berlin Zoo line today and thus extremely important from a breeding perspective. The other - cow Ropen at Dvur - is now deemed no longer reproductively viable. Her daughter (a StuttgartxWhipsnade crossing) though is (I know Dvur is trying to source an unrelated male from US ... sometime .. not sure yet when it will happen, so maybe even 2009)!

Yassa, you are right. I think that Jhansi is just not Belur's wet dream I am afraid! :p I think it is better to have her remain at Berlin Zoo (1.2 at each, allthough Berlin Municipality managers want the zoos to go it complimentary as far as collections are concerned ... unfort.... also and more so for money penny purposes!
 
Indian rhinos family trees.

jelle said:
.

The latter is probably the reason the EEP is now candidating Jacob for a breeding position with young cow Shikari.
. Cow Shikari (born October 2006) is an offspring of a Stuttgart bred bull (again Basel line in extremo) coupled with a wild-caught Nepali cow. Ironically, this makes the Stuttgart calves highly desirable from a genetic perspective.
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I'm getting more confused :confused::confused: where is Shikari- at Stuttgart?

Jelle- it would be great if you could somehow post a family tree of the current principal breeders and their offspring in Europe and how they all interconnect. Its a fascinating subject and seems to involve most of the zoos in the UK and in Europe that keep Indian rhinos.

If not a 'tree', then perhaps a list of the main breeding lines and the names/ages/locations of the animals? :)
 
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Pertinax said:
I'm getting more confused :confused::confused: Who is 'Jacob' -is he the son of 'Belur' x Betty? And where is Shikari- at Stuttgart?

Jelle- it would be great if you could somehow post a family tree of the current principal breeders and their offspring in Europe and how they all interconnect. Its a fascinating subject and seems to involve most of the zoos in the UK and in Europe that keep Indian rhinos.

If not a 'tree', then perhaps a list of the main breeding lines and the names/ages/locations of the animals? :)
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1. No, Jacob is YodhaxJhansi (Whipsnade/SD-WAP).
I would call Jhansi jokingly the Berlin Zoo commuter (I really think it is best to have her in permanent residence there, but the housing issues at Berlin Zoo may be relevant here as the house is partially used for the black rhinos also) and genetically very important to the EEP.

2. Shikari is BrunoxSani (Stuttgart/Nepal mix).

3. A family tree ... ahum ... yup .... would not you, Mark and all like that? I will see what I can do, but to post it here in manageable proportions .. that REALLY is a CHALLENGE! :p Next you also want me to make one for the eastern black rhinos in Europe!!!!!
 
Yassa said:
By the way Pertinax, I think rhinos are like humans sometimes, Belur just can`t stand Jhansi. Just like many male gorillas not mating with a specific female.
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No, I'd disagree here. It seems Belur is/was overly aggressive with 'Jahnsi' DURING mating and bites her in the process- so he wants to mate but she has been put off. (For some reason he doesn't seem to show the same behaviour with 'Betty') But its not the same as Gorilla males who reject certain females.

That's unless Jelle says different of course....;)
 
[QUOTE

3. A family tree ... ahum ... yup .... would not you, Mark and all like that? I will see what I can do, but to post it here in manageable proportions .. that REALLY is a CHALLENGE! :p Next you also want me to make one for the eastern black rhinos in Europe!!!!![/QUOTE]

Oh yes, that would be wondeful if you could Jelle :D
 
jelle said:
1. No, Jacob is YodhaxJhansi (Whipsnade/SD-WAP).
I would call Jhansi jokingly the Berlin Zoo commuter (I really think it is best to have her in permanent residence there, but the housing issues at Berlin Zoo may be relevant here as the house is partially used for the black rhinos also) and genetically very important to the EEP.

2. Shikari is BrunoxSani (Stuttgart/Nepal mix).

3. A family tree ... ahum ... yup .... would not you, Mark and all like that? I will see what I can do, but to post it here in manageable proportions .. that REALLY is a CHALLENGE! :p Next you also want me to make one for the eastern black rhinos in Europe!!!!!
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Sorry, Yassa had already posted Jacob's parents- I missed it. So much information to take in! ;)

WHERE is cow Shikari?
From your news, it seems that Whipsnade is going to have 3, or even four cows(if they kept their female calf) with a new bull in due course.

If you just listed the main participating zoos and how the animals all link up, that would do fine...;)
(You could do a black rhino one later :D )
 
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