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Oh yes, that would be wondeful if you could Jelle
Wasn't this just a brilliant idea of mine?
Poor Jelle has got the hard work though...Indian rhinos in Europe
- Thread starter Kifaru Bwana
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Wasn't this just a brilliant idea of mine?
Poor Jelle has got the hard work though...I Used to have the G.I. Rhino studbook but only the first one so I know most of the early founders in Europe but there are now new generations I don't really know about...
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Nope, there is just one female calf at Basle, Batschii, born 2004. The other calf in Basle was a male (also born around 2004) and he has been moved to Edinburgh since. WHen Batschii goes to Whipsnade, this probably means Chester won`t get a female soon - but they don`t need one now, given that Patna is way too young for breeding. On the other hand, I think another young rhino (regardless the sex) would be great for him; he had been handraised and I have never seen that he had been in one yard with other rhinos in Berlin. He was standing next to them in the barn, but direct interactions to improve his social skills could be crucial.
I thought it was a 'done deal' for a female to come to Chester but the bluetongue and FMD restrictions postponed it...
Pattna's mate.
Now here I do think there could be a sort of parallel with Gorillas... if Patna was handraised AND goes without Rhino company too many years, I agree his sociability could be affected adversely. Mind you, 'Yodha' spent several years alone at Chester before going to Berlin, and it didn't affect him- but he wasn't handreared.
It will be interesting to see if Baatschi from Basel now goes to Chester or Whipsnade. I think it would be better if she went to Chester -at least for a while- unless Chester are later receive the female calf from Whipsnade instead? The main thing is for Pattna to have rhino company before too long.
Now here I do think there could be a sort of parallel with Gorillas... if Patna was handraised AND goes without Rhino company too many years, I agree his sociability could be affected adversely. Mind you, 'Yodha' spent several years alone at Chester before going to Berlin, and it didn't affect him- but he wasn't handreared.
It will be interesting to see if Baatschi from Basel now goes to Chester or Whipsnade. I think it would be better if she went to Chester -at least for a while- unless Chester are later receive the female calf from Whipsnade instead? The main thing is for Pattna to have rhino company before too long.
1. I think Patna will work out fine. For now, in the wild youngish bulls do not get too much interaction either. They have to stay away from the big guys and the girls are not too interested in a hormone laden bullish boyish sprout either! I think it is better if he were to be joint by another bull of his age to accompany him.
2. Re the Baatschi move to Whipsnade. I suspect Whipsnade will have better facilities to keep a larger group for now. Above all, the Species Coordinator has a strong vote in the whole affair (desired breeding combinations and transfer wise). Perhaps still Baatschi might move up northwest yet in a few years time. However, her chances of breeding when she is 5-6 old to Patna at the given timing (2010) is non-existent. The bulls simply ripen later in life than cows. In Whipsnade Baatschi might find a better more suitable environment for breeding (as I expect a bull will follow in 1-2 years for the Nepali cows who both have an immediate "BREED" denomination).
3. Re Shikari: the Stuttgart born cow (2006) is still at Stuttgart Zoo. She is destined to move shortly to Warsawa Zoo in Poland (Jurek, eat your heart out).
Well mate,
If I were the Species Coordinator in the EEP (sorry, sorry, sorry lol), Dubbo would have its female rhino before long from the EEP over reps. Basel line.
Dora was born in Japan and a combination with a Basel line female from Europe has not been tried yet.
Anyway, what is the current story there? Incidentally, is Dubbo Zoo part of the SSP Indian rhino or not?
Answers;
1. Yes, Pattna would do fine with a male companion- like the two currently at Edinburgh. I still don't think living alone is too good for him longterm but I agree that a female partner isn't vital yet.
2. Whipsnade can keep more rhinos now, but some will still have to use the older accomodation. The new house has I believe three 'stalls' each with pool. It will be filled very quickly.
If Hugo from Rotterdam is to be their new future bull, he and Batchi both have some Basel blood( but as you said, in Europe so do most Indian rhinos)
3. Was I right in saying the original pair at Stuttgart were 'Nanda' and 'Puri' both born at Basel( more than halfsiblings) ?
Affirmative on Hugo (PlanckendaelxStuttgart) and Baatschi (BaselxSD-WAP). Spot on regarding the first breeding pair at Stuttgart.
The current policy within the EEP is to minimize the direct contribution of the Basel line. It has been calculated that for the Basel Zoo females it would be best to have a totally unrelated bull. Even the San Diego born Jaffna has some blood from the Basel group in his family tree (be it the first breeding male at SD-WAP, whereas the others are both a Guwahati and Hyderabad Zoo born females). However, given that Indian Zoo ancestry he is rather special with reference to genetics.
Also Hugo is part Planckendael (WhipsnadexBasel) and thus in itself interesting from a genetic perspective. The real difference over time must make the full representation of all wild caught Nepali originating Indian rhinos. Since 2005, 3 of these have made the first and most decisive step in becoming primiparous breeders (allthough the Berlin Zoo female had a breach birth, it was not due to lack of maternal instincts and she is expected now to be a more harmonious combo with male Yodha ... in other words he has found her beauty spots)
The current policy within the EEP is to minimize the direct contribution of the Basel line. It has been calculated that for the Basel Zoo females it would be best to have a totally unrelated bull. Even the San Diego born Jaffna has some blood from the Basel group in his family tree (be it the first breeding male at SD-WAP, whereas the others are both a Guwahati and Hyderabad Zoo born females). However, given that Indian Zoo ancestry he is rather special with reference to genetics.
Also Hugo is part Planckendael (WhipsnadexBasel) and thus in itself interesting from a genetic perspective. The real difference over time must make the full representation of all wild caught Nepali originating Indian rhinos. Since 2005, 3 of these have made the first and most decisive step in becoming primiparous breeders (allthough the Berlin Zoo female had a breach birth, it was not due to lack of maternal instincts and she is expected now to be a more harmonious combo with male Yodha ... in other words he has found her beauty spots)
MARK
Well-Known Member
Well mate,
If I were the Species Coordinator in the EEP (sorry, sorry, sorry lol), Dubbo would have its female rhino before long from the EEP over reps. Basel line.
Cheers Jelle, hehe
Dora was born in Japan and a combination with a Basel line female from Europe has not been tried yet.
Anyway, what is the current story there? Incidentally, is Dubbo Zoo part of the SSP Indian rhino or not?
I believe we are part of the American SSP for the species, just hope at some stage we can get him a new female, I feel they should do well at the WPZ
MARK
Well-Known Member
Jelle, ISIS points to the SSP having 36.32 individuals, do you think that sounds about right?. Is there any idea how many maybe kept in Indian zoos?
Nope, I am afraid. The totals for Montgomery and The Wilds, Ohio do not add up. At Montgomery 1.0 was born in 2007 and at The Wilds, Ohio 1.1 were born in 2007 (+ 1.0 arrived ex SD-WAP from the recent Indian zoos exchange). Furthermore, I fear the totals for SD-WAP are ...... (they have not changed in a year)!!! Will check with them soon though.
Regarding the Indian zoos I will say this. The totals are currently somewhere between 18.14 as a few deaths were recorded last year. However, this does not include 2007 births as I have yet to receive information on pregnant cows (and when they were due) at 2 institutions.
I cannot and will not elaborate on the causes of death here (as I am in contact with the current regional studbook keeper there). The entire Indian Rhino Vision - of which the captive breeding programme is a component - is heavily politicised.
Protection at Kaziranga NP is so .... that poaching incidences have sky-rocketed since the start of 2007 (called the bin Laden connection and with lacklustre govt./federal performance to blame). This mirrors the Bengal tigers case which are now down from 2,500-3,000 to just under 1,400 due in large part to govt. indifference in the face of years of increased poaching, bad policing and staffing as well as failure to heed the ominuous signs from detailed ecological research and tracking studies by India's prime tiger scientists.
I am however confident that at least the captive component can be given the headstart now 1 institution has been assigned the Conservation Breeding Center status (with adequate funding from federal and CZA coffers). Perhaps I can tell you all more sometime later in the year.
Terra Natura, Benidorm:
0.1 Nisha (born 2001 Muenchen - arrived March 2004)
0.1 Shiva (born 2002 Stuttgart - arrived March 2004)
Recent arrival:
1.0 Nico (born 1986 Plancendael - arrived August 2007). Former proven breeder at Diergaarde Blijdorp, Rotterdam (3 calves + 1 confirmed pregnancy).
Given the timing I think bull Nico will have been put in with the cows in late 2007. The earliest births can thus only be expected during mid to late 2009.
Keep fingers crossed!
Jelle, my turn now looking into your crystal ball and next year Edinburgh having built their new multi million pound Indian rhino habitat near the top of the hill at the zoo.
Do you think "Babu" or "Fanindra" will still be at the zoo, and where do you think a female will be sourced from?
Do you think "Babu" or "Fanindra" will still be at the zoo, and where do you think a female will be sourced from?
Saathi from TP Berlin (born 11/2005) would be a good candidate. There are not that many young females - Shikari from Stuttgart will go to Poland, Batschii to Whipsnade and Rotterdam will keep their female Sofie. The female calf in Whipsnade might be another option for Edinburgh but she is only a few months old yet. I am not sure if the Zoo Munich has a calf at the moment.
1. I saw the original Stuttgart pair as halfgrowns in their new house on one of my early European trips.. I remembered that Basel Zoo name their rhinos(and some other species e.g Gorillas), first letter of name alphabetically according to the year of birth, so Nanda was born before Puri..)
2. From memory(no book!!) the original San Diego male from Basel was 'Lasai'. Was 'Lasai' the father of Jaffna, or was there a generation in between? 'Lasai' would have been the previous Basel calf to the Stuttgart pair, the one before him was 'Kunlai' which went to Paris I think. (in order of birth at Basel, K, L, N, P.) I can't remember which were Joymothi's and which Moola's though.
3. Into the present. We really need your 'family tree' to help us work out all the present relationships.....
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