Edinburgh Zoo Red River Hogs culled

johnstoni said:
In terms of simply rehoming to a collection that wants red river hogs, again this is about control of managed species, a collection without this species would first have to apply to join the EEP for it before recieving any.
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Yes, I'm sure you are right here and that this situation would have effectively blocked any random/unauthorised movement of the animals in this case. I'm actually beginning to wonder why it is a managed species though, given that is supposedly not endangered and such a free breeder nowadays in zoos.
 
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As I understand it, because the European population has been an ESB from about 2001, but due to many more collections breeding their animals successfully, (as we have seen in the UK since the days when only Woburn seemed able to get theirs to reproduce), changing over to EEP management has enabled better control over this which, in the case of the topic of this thread, would seem to be so.

The argument that much-needed space is required for more endangered suids (Chacoan peccary? Visayan warty pigs?) or for a less inbred bloodline of red river hogs is fine, but the management of one species where no equivalent exists for peccaries or European wild boar suggests to me that the more extreme measures, ie culling, look ineffectual on the wider European captive suid population.

I certainly don't expect all the non-reproductive, ageing babirusa to be culled to make way for healthy young pairs of visayan warty pigs, because they are rare in zoos and the current holders obviously want to hold onto them, which takes the red river hog cull at Edinburgh back to a local decision to cooperate with an EEP recommendation.
 
Shoebill said:
Are you serious?
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I am, yes. If it is breeding so freely, but difficult to place the surplus produced in other collections under the EEP guidelines, what is the point in continuing with that form of management? Wouldn't it be better if the zoos were just able to manage this species now without these EEP guidelines being applied. Otherwise presumably Euthanasia will now become the norm for many of the young of this species produced at places like Edinburgh that don't have room to keep larger groups-unless some other form of birth control is brought in. In view of the bad press in this case, is Euthanasia on a regular basis for this species now going to be deemed practical or acceptable longterm?

Do you know what is planned for the current litter of Hogs at Edinburgh?
 
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Strange, there were plenty people coming on here straight away to justify the killing of the previous litter of red river hogs, however they would appear to be reluctant to tell us what the Royal Society has in store for the present litter, judging by their silence I think we know.
 
TARZAN said:
Strange, there were plenty people coming on here straight away to justify the killing of the previous litter of red river hogs, however they would appear to be reluctant to tell us what the Royal Society has in store for the present litter, judging by their silence I think we know.
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It must be great being so omniscient:rolleyes:.

There's a possibility the hogs will be culled and those who would justify it don't think it's worth the effort given that opinion on this "boils down" to belief systems (like a religion) and there's little chance of converting those with an opposing view. i.e. after a initial debate with some valid points from both sides there's no point repeating them again -people may as well bang their heads against a wall.

But, in my opinion, it's probably most likely that no-one's commented becomes the facts of the matter are not known yet and no-one wants to waste too much time arguing about speculation. Remember you only raised the point two days ago and, unlike last time, there's been no official or press information on the situation yet.
 
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TARZAN said:
Strange, there were plenty people coming on here straight away to justify the killing of the previous litter of red river hogs, however they would appear to be reluctant to tell us what the Royal Society has in store for the present litter, judging by their silence I think we know.
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Or, as Shorts says, people aren't commenting because they just don't know yet. I think you're on the verges of a conspiracy theory here.
 
Also, be aware people who position themselves in agreement with the actions of the zoo aren't necessarily connected with the zoo, or even experienced in zoo animal management, it just appears that way, so those who spoke in defence of Edinburgh's decision aren't necessarily in the know, and their silence shouldn't be misinterpreted as tacit admission of a decision that the zoo will make in due course.
 
Goretex said:
I also feel that we should encourage people to not have children.
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Tbh I think that's a little unfair. I want nothing more than to have children when I'm older, and why shouldn't I? I don't think anybody in the world has the right to take away the right to reproduce.

Maybe encourage to have less children or something, but everybody has the right to have children.
 
Edinburgh Zoo

I think research shows that as a society gets more affluent, people have fewer kids as they can be fairly sure they will survive, so human populations will level out over time. Unfortunately we have to ride out the spike that occurs in the interim.
 
Colchester moved two young males to Prague last year, where the should replace an older one and live as a bachelor duo. Due to some problems on on receiveing french zoo side, the Prague older male had to stay and all three were succesfully merged into one group.

So anything claiming there is no place for the piglets when they grow up is just bull. I call it a poor management when surplus animals are produced just to be culled. It is up to zoos/EEP to ensure they is not way too many animals in breeding situations. If you keep producing youngs you can't move elsewhere, you are doing something wrong. No matter how EEP could make it worse for you and could be partially blamed too. And you should have a better solution just in case (i.e. for example another exhibit for surplus animals (of one sex) and stop breeding even more until you find a way to deal with them. Culling should be the last choice and when it is being done it means someone didn't do best he/she could.
 
docend24 said:
So anything claiming there is no place for the piglets when they grow up is just bull. I call it a poor management when surplus animals are produced just to be culled. It is up to zoos/EEP to ensure they is not way too many animals in breeding situations. If you keep producing youngs you can't move elsewhere, you are doing something wrong. No matter how EEP could make it worse for you and could be partially blamed too. And you should have a better solution just in case (i.e. for example another exhibit for surplus animals (of one sex) and stop breeding even more until you find a way to deal with them. Culling should be the last choice and when it is being done it means someone didn't do best he/she could.
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I agree 100% with what you are saying here. I could not put it better either.:)

After this bad publicity, and despite the 'no option' statement for the previous litter I think perhaps their current 'surplus' litter will somehow now find new homes perhaps?.;)
 
Pertinax said:
I agree 100% with what you are saying here. I could not put it better either.:)

After this bad publicity, and despite the 'no option' statement for the previous litter I think perhaps their current 'surplus' litter will somehow now find new homes perhaps?.;)
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Hopefully, time will tell.
 
I guess if they did cull them that would be a very unwise choice for Edinbrough. Especially seeing as this snowing weather will undoubtfully put enough people off!;):rolleyes:
 
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