Edinburgh Zoo January 2011 - Highs and lows

[TriGB]

Quote (Simon);Due to limited space and money it is difficult to put as much information up at enclosures as zoos or their visitors would like. This is why a talks programme and the fact that many keepers are quite approachable to ask questions is important. This allows the public to find out more.

(Could someone inform me how to quote please?)

In reply to Simon....

I really believe that public opinion matters. It is extremely hard to get new people into a zoo. The general public are not as well informed about welfare, stud-books, enrichment and husbandry as we and zoo professionals are. I work in education and have done some zoo education work. It only takes a little effort and time to write a sign, get it approved, laminate and find a space near an exhibit to display it. Yes, keepers, curators and educators are busy, but compared to the damage that one or more people could do by leaving the zoo un-informed or ill-informed and relaying their feelings or perceptions about a magnificent animal being kept in a small space to one or more people....? 30-60 minutes per week from one or two people could equate to untold amounts of revenue! I sometimes can't help but tactfully inform or correct members of the public about an enclosure or animal behaviour. I worry that if I hadn't have intervened they would have left and told someone that Zoo's really havn't changed for the better! On a grey, cloudy day in January, evrything can look more miserable that it really is! People that read this site take way too much (knowledge) for granted, myself included. I try so hard to build trust with my friends and family in order to persuade them to visit Zoo's and Wildlife Parks with me. I love most UK Zoo's including Edinburgh but I can't keep justifying poor enclosures....but I could if I knew there was a plan, an imminent move or a welfare/veterinary reason. I didn't see one keeper at Edinburgh on Sunday during my five and a half hour stay that I felt comfortable (pulling them from their work) asking. Most were busy fixing aviary netting damaged from heavy snow or cleaning up enclosures sparse of grass. In summary - we need to inform visitors about more than just the animals themselves, we need to ensure visitors never have an opportunity to leave feeling negative about the size of enclosures or the animals behaviour within them. We can't afford to! People have less money, more leisure/entertainment options and more reasons to stay away, all the time our beloved zoo's are paying more for feed and heating! We also can't assume the public will go to every keeper talk. In fact, I bet most of us could be empowered to communicate positively with our local zoo curator and volunteer to type up some smart looking signage to keep the paying public informed! We do enough typing on here!

 

[cracker]

Quote (Simon);Due to limited space and money it is difficult to put as much information up at enclosures as zoos or their visitors would like. This is why a talks programme and the fact that many keepers are quite approachable to ask questions is important. This allows the public to find out more.

(Could someone inform me how to quote please?)

In reply to Simon....

I really believe that public opinion matters. It is extremely hard to get new people into a zoo. The general public are not as well informed about welfare, stud-books, enrichment and husbandry as we and zoo professionals are. I work in education and have done some zoo education work. It only takes a little effort and time to write a sign, get it approved, laminate and find a space near an exhibit to display it. Yes, keepers, curators and educators are busy, but compared to the damage that one or more people could do by leaving the zoo un-informed or ill-informed and relaying their feelings or perceptions about a magnificent animal being kept in a small space to one or more people....? 30-60 minutes per week from one or two people could equate to untold amounts of revenue! I sometimes can't help but tactfully inform or correct members of the public about an enclosure or animal behaviour. I worry that if I hadn't have intervened they would have left and told someone that Zoo's really havn't changed for the better! On a grey, cloudy day in January, evrything can look more miserable that it really is! People that read this site take way too much (knowledge) for granted, myself included. I try so hard to build trust with my friends and family in order to persuade them to visit Zoo's and Wildlife Parks with me. I love most UK Zoo's including Edinburgh but I can't keep justifying poor enclosures....but I could if I knew there was a plan, an imminent move or a welfare/veterinary reason. I didn't see one keeper at Edinburgh on Sunday during my five and a half hour stay that I felt comfortable (pulling them from their work) asking. Most were busy fixing aviary netting damaged from heavy snow or cleaning up enclosures sparse of grass. In summary - we need to inform visitors about more than just the animals themselves, we need to ensure visitors never have an opportunity to leave feeling negative about the size of enclosures or the animals behaviour within them. We can't afford to! People have less money, more leisure/entertainment options and more reasons to stay away, all the time our beloved zoo's are paying more for feed and heating! We also can't assume the public will go to every keeper talk. In fact, I bet most of us could be empowered to communicate positively with our local zoo curator and volunteer to type up some smart looking signage to keep the paying public informed! We do enough typing on here!

I agree completely and think it is about communicating more with the management of the zoo than those at education or keeper level as they very often already know the problems but cannot get these issues across to the management. I know Edinburgh has a visitor book but don't know how these comments are applied in any useful way, a lot of negative comments are written about the cat enclosures but this hasn't resulted in more specific signage at these enclosures.

 

[sooty mangabey]

The Sunbear enclosure is over twice the size of Mercedes old habitat, you have to remember they removed the old wildcat habitat (which was of a decent size) to create the upper back forest area for the bears to roam about in.
Have to admit though, this is the first time i've heard negative thoughts on the habitat, everyone elses I heard have been approving.

As simon says, these pair were caged animals kept as pets in their past so they have come a long way compared to how they were.

At risk of being very dull - it is a particular bugbear of mine, and I have droned on about it before - habitat? It's still a cage, whichever term we apply to it. And if 'caged' is used to be perjoratively, as it is here (I think) where does that leave us?

As for Edinburgh's cat cages / habitats - they're not the best, but they're quite decent, with a fair amount of space heading back, and some good varying terrain.

 

[johnstoni]

Due to limited space and money it is difficult to put as much information up at enclosures as zoos or their visitors would like. This is why a talks programme and the fact that many keepers are quite approachable to ask questions is important. This allows the public to find out more.

I have to disagree. In my own experience, you can nail the scruffiest laminated print out to a post and if it says something directly relevant to the individuals the public are viewing, you'll hear visitor after visitor quote it to whoever they are with. Be it an explanation why an animal appears to have an injury (guenons losing the ends of their tails), looks untidy (moulting penguins), or appears to be exhibiting stereotyped behaviour (bears, cats, many others), a sign is of great value. I'm a huge fan of personalised information (eg 'these ....... came from ..... collection', 'our ........ have just been introduced'), and you don't need glossing interp for this, moreover its more likely to go out of date if it is costly to put up.

 

[Dicerorhinus]

At risk of being very dull - it is a particular bugbear of mine, and I have droned on about it before - habitat? It's still a cage, whichever term we apply to it. And if 'caged' is used to be perjoratively, as it is here (I think) where does that leave us?

I have always defined a cage as being a structure composed of bars/wire. In this case the poster is using "habitat" to differentiate between the open-top concrete exhibit and a cage.

However you are correct, you are dull!

 

[Pertinax]

I have always defined a cage as being a structure composed of bars/wire.

For me a 'cage' also has to have a roof.

Otherwise its an 'enclosure'- unless its a paddock...

 

[Pertinax]

you can nail the scruffiest laminated print out to a post and if it says something directly relevant to the individuals the public are viewing, you'll hear visitor after visitor quote it to whoever they are with.

You're absolutely right. People seem to pay more attention to this sort of specific information than they do the normal species sign boards.

We've all heard these comments e.g. lady to husband..."ooh, it says here he's on breeding loan and his injuries are superficial but are being monitored by the keepers"

 

[TARZAN]

I certainly think some form of information signage would be beneficial to Edinburgh regarding the sun bear's. Tell their story about being kept as pets, their time at the rescue center and their move to the zoo. Yes it would cost money but need not be an expensive artistic masterpiece, just simple straight forward information attractive enough to catch the visitor's eye, read it and consider the facts, this was done when Mercedes lived there. It is good to have a chat with the keepers about their animals however they cannot just walk around the zoo all day talking to visitors and try to think of a way to make a polite exit when someone wants to keep them talking all day, also some visitors might not like to approach the keepers as they have other important work to do. Inform the visitors as in this case ignorance would certainly not be bliss.

 

[Pertinax]

I certainly think some form of information signage would be beneficial to Edinburgh regarding the sun bear's. Tell their story about being kept as pets, their time at the rescue center and their move to the zoo. Inform the visitors as in this case ignorance would certainly not be bliss.

Don't they have some detailed information about the Sun Bears' previous history on display already? I believe they publicised it when they first arrived and so I automatically presumed similar information was displayed at the exhibit too.. Is it just the usual biological information on SunBears on their signs?

 

[TARZAN]

Don't they have some detailed information about the Sun Bears' previous history on display already? I believe they publicised it when they first arrived and so I automatically presumed similar information was displayed at the exhibit too.. Is it just the usual biological information on SunBears on their signs?

I did not notice any on my last visit, however information could have been displayed since then, could anyone who has visited recently confirm this, ? thank you.

 

[snowleopard]

1- Isn't Edinburgh Zoo regarded by many Brits as perhaps the 2nd best zoological park in the United Kingdom? It seems that just about everyone agrees that Chester is the best that this tiny section of the world has to offer, but many folks that I've been in contact with over the years rate Edinburgh quite highly. Thus I am a bit shocked by the negativity towards some of the zoo's exhibits on this thread. Is Scotland's premier zoo simply average? Or is it biding its time until the illustrious giant pandas arrive? One day I'll have to tour the British Isles (home of just about all of my ancestors) and maybe go on a European road trip where I'll hit 30-40 nations via car, visiting countless zoos along the way. I've twice toured 30-40 American States and that is basically the equivalent of touring that many European nations!

2- The word "habitat" is as common as the word popcorn at most American zoos, and words like exhibit/habitat/enclosure are used to describe animal spaces. I agree with Pertinax in that the word "cage" usually denotes a space that includes a roof, and these days it certainly has a negative context when repeated in discussion with zoo enclosures. This could turn into a debate on semantics, but I personally think that the word cage refers to wood & wire constructions that are a dime a dozen in many zoos of various nations, with bars and a roof being other options that would classify as a cage. Large hoofstock enclosures are commonly called paddocks, and just about everything else could be an exhibit or a habitat. The word habitat has only recently been used in conjuction with zoo enclosures, but I'm sure that it is here to stay. Visiting some zoos that have almost zero obvious barriers it is difficult to not use the word habitat, and certainly such fantastic exhibits are difficult to refer to as cages as they simply do not resemble a traditional cage in any shape whatsoever.

 

[Maguari]

Visiting some zoos that have almost zero obvious barriers it is difficult to not use the word habitat,

It's really not. They're still enclosures, and no-one is being kidded otherwise.

and certainly such fantastic exhibits are difficult to refer to as cages as they simply do not resemble a traditional cage in any shape whatsoever.

No, but while I wouldn't call this a 'cage', I share sooty mangabey's aversion to the word 'habitat' in the context.

The words 'enclosure' and 'exhibit' do perfectly well without the distasteful euphemism of 'habitat', which suggests you're embarrassed to admit the animals are captive.

 

[TARZAN]

One person who's zoological articles I miss reading were written by the late Clinton Keeling, considered by some as a controversial figure. I always enjoyed his writing not just because I found it interesting and informative but also at times he could be highly amusing. His opinion of Edinburgh was that it was good but not that good when visiting for the first time some years ago, that is exactly how I feel about it today, it's good but not that good. I certainly would not rank it second best in the U.K., in my opinion there are others which are superior, this is of coarse down to ones own personal preferences. If, however all of the exhibits at Edinburgh were as good as what they currently have for their chimps and famous penguins then it would not just be the best zoo in the U.K. but one of the best in the world.

 

[Shoebill]

Also, with large carnivores, they tend to move less when food is readily available. Coupled with the fact the enclosures look much smaller from the windows than they really are!

I could not disagree with you more. I personally think that the two lower enclosures are far too small for Sumatran tigers. Not once have I heard a member of the public looking at the tigers ever utter a good thing about the enclosure design.

Don't know what sort of optical illusion you are talking about, but I can cross the width one of the enclosures in about 4 or 5 steps. Would not like to spend every morning, noon and night, day after day in there. Also with enclosures of such design you limit the enrichment options available, and as such the animals suffer.

If you don't have the space, simply don't keep the species.

 

[Pertinax]

Is Scotland's premier zoo simply average?

I would describe Edinburgh as fairly average, but with an increasingly above average Animal collection- including all the various unusual species you've seen mentioned on here. Couple it with the Highland Wildlife Park also run by the RZS, and you do have an outstanding collection with very many species unique(or almost) to the UK.

In terms of layout/buildings etc its not dissimilar to other long established UK municipial/urban zoos built in the same era, like Dublin, Bristol or the more recent Dudley, though there are one or two very modern state of the art exhibits such as the Chimps. One disadvantage it shares with Dudley is that its situated on a hill- never the best site for zoos in my opinion.

The Pandas will be going into a refurbished Gorilla House which is over 20 years old and was never an outstanding exhibit- quite the contrary in fact.

 

[Simon McGlary]

Don't they have some detailed information about the Sun Bears' previous history on display already? I believe they publicised it when they first arrived and so I automatically presumed similar information was displayed at the exhibit too.. Is it just the usual biological information on SunBears on their signs?

In the top viewing area, one of the flip books is about the rescue centre the bears came from and the work done by the vet and other zoo staff over there but nothing specific about the individuals.

 

[Lesley4444]

I am just back from one of the most enjoyable days i have had at Edinburgh Zoo...and there have been many of those. Neither of the sunbears showed any sort of negitive behaviour infact quite the opposite.. both were interacting with each other...searcing for food...scratching the logs and generally doing bear things. I love what they have done to the old polar bear enclosure... and i think that not enough praise has been given to the staff and landscaping crew for doing a really good job.

The Chimps seem to enjoying the vast outdoor enclosure today and with the new integrated group adding the numbers up to 12 their calls could be heard throughout the zoo for most of the day... the half an hr i spent watching them they demonstrated the most natural behaviour i have witnessed and tho the chimps are not my "first see" at the zoo they were exceedingly entertaining today.

The Wolverines were being mixed i assume for breeding...both were out and that alone is an unusal sight.

As for the many comments about how small the enclosures are for the tigers... as already mentioned.... they are awaiting the arrival of another female tiger... the top tiger how which is much larger is not suitable for quarrintine and as you can imagine moving enclosure is stressful for all animals... so instead of moving one tiger to the top enclosure... they are keeping them there.. so that the new tiger can move up to the top enclosures with the male at the same time. The tigers home at the moment are not their permanent ones.

There was a traveling crate outside the hippos enclosure.. i am assuming the female calf is moving on soon? does anyone know anything about this?

I think giving the maned wolf the new enclosure by the tigers/jaguars house is a good idea... but as always they were no where to be seen...lol

I am upset at the new over tina the jaguar but glad that edinburgh zoo was able to give her a home that was as near as possible to the wold as she could get in her last years. I hope they get another female soon as Mowgli is a beautiful black jaguar and baby jaguars would be incredible. Tho i must admit he did look alittle depressed today..but thats probably me putting on human emotion to an animal..lol

As always my flickr pictures will be up soon

ps Meant to also mention.. that eventho Edinburgh zoo doesnt always have the most up to date signs... they do have the best <in my opinon> website with information about specific animals... AND a zoo blog! So if people wanted to know about an animal and its past then its a click away

 

[Shirokuma]

It's true that they have an excellent and often responsive web presence which many zoos could learn a great deal from.

I don't know where it would rank in terms of the best zoos in Britain but in my opinion, Edinburgh is certainly one of the most interesting with a constantly evolving and unusual collection and a site which I admit can be challenging in its topography but I find interesting and stimulating with well established trees and vegetation.

It's changed a lot in recent years and I think it still has massive potential.

 

[TARZAN]

I am just back from one of the most enjoyable days i have had at Edinburgh Zoo...and there have been many of those. Neither of the sunbears showed any sort of negitive behaviour infact quite the opposite.. both were interacting with each other...searcing for food...scratching the logs and generally doing bear things. I love what they have done to the old polar bear enclosure... and i think that not enough praise has been given to the staff and landscaping crew for doing a really good job.

The Chimps seem to enjoying the vast outdoor enclosure today and with the new integrated group adding the numbers up to 12 their calls could be heard throughout the zoo for most of the day... the half an hr i spent watching them they demonstrated the most natural behaviour i have witnessed and tho the chimps are not my "first see" at the zoo they were exceedingly entertaining today.

The Wolverines were being mixed i assume for breeding...both were out and that alone is an unusal sight.

As for the many comments about how small the enclosures are for the tigers... as already mentioned.... they are awaiting the arrival of another female tiger... the top tiger how which is much larger is not suitable for quarrintine and as you can imagine moving enclosure is stressful for all animals... so instead of moving one tiger to the top enclosure... they are keeping them there.. so that the new tiger can move up to the top enclosures with the male at the same time. The tigers home at the moment are not their permanent ones.

There was a traveling crate outside the hippos enclosure.. i am assuming the female calf is moving on soon? does anyone know anything about this?

I think giving the maned wolf the new enclosure by the tigers/jaguars house is a good idea... but as always they were no where to be seen...lol

I am upset at the new over tina the jaguar but glad that edinburgh zoo was able to give her a home that was as near as possible to the wold as she could get in her last years. I hope they get another female soon as Mowgli is a beautiful black jaguar and baby jaguars would be incredible. Tho i must admit he did look alittle depressed today..but thats probably me putting on human emotion to an animal..lol

As always my flickr pictures will be up soon

ps Meant to also mention.. that eventho Edinburgh zoo doesnt always have the most up to date signs... they do have the best <in my opinon> website with information about specific animals... AND a zoo blog! So if people wanted to know about an animal and its past then its a click away

Is there any mention on this informative website concerning the future of the red river hoglets, i.e. the second litter?

 

[Pygathrix]

If the tigers are going to move back into the top enclosure once quarantine is over, where will the jaguar go?