Edinburgh Zoo Not again!

The reporter hadn't got her facts right; the 'endangered piglets' are actually classed as Least Concern on IUCN
 
AgileGibbon said:
The reporter hadn't got her facts right; the 'endangered piglets' are actually classed as Least Concern on IUCN
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It seems to me that according to the press every zoo animal is 'endangered', just as every railway accident involves 'a commuter train.'

It would make sense for Edinburgh to refrain from breeding this species.
 
This practice in my opionion is disgusting and makes me extremely angry. I do not believe that there is no collection at all that would house these animals.

Even if they were taken on by a farm of some sort as a display or pets it would be better than the chopping block.

I just hope that edinburgh take appropriate action to prevent the animals breeding yet again in the future!
 
Honestly, what would people prefer here. That the piglets are sent away to somewhere substandard because anywhere with adequate housing for them is full up - here they live a miserable existance just because somebody didn't want to see them culled. Or, they can be spared that and be humanely put to sleep without even knowing it.

If a place is after them, as has been mentioned about Jersey, then that is all well and good, but at the end of the day it is not Edinburgh, but the EEP or ESB that is stating this is for the best.

As for refraining from breeding, it would be good if it were that simple. However, some species do not breed quite so well unless they breed on a regular basis. If you left an adult RRH without breeding for, say, 5 years while the current holders are all full to capacity, chances are they won't breed when the powers that be want them to.
 
Javan Rhino said:
As for refraining from breeding, it would be good if it were that simple. However, some species do not breed quite so well unless they breed on a regular basis. If you left an adult RRH without breeding for, say, 5 years while the current holders are all full to capacity, chances are they won't breed when the powers that be want them to.
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That's true Javan Rhino. Perhaps I ought to have put they should have a same sex group if they don't want to produce young. Surplus males or old females would still provide a chance for the public to see the hogs at Edinburgh.
 
jerseygorilla said:
I agree. Jersey for example are currently looking for a ale to join its 2 females. Thats if there are any male piglets!
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They are all boys. From memory I think Jersey's 0:2 are ex Woburn? Given that Woburn's are probably the most represented of any UK (and possibly Europe) pairing there's a good chance that these boys are related to them. I'm sure it was stated on another zc thread sometime ago that Blackbrook wanted the species but were rejected due to the fact that they aren't/wern't a member of EAZA. Surely it wouldn't do any harm to re-house them in a non breeding situation with a collection that isn't part of EAZA than have them put down?? I can think of another collection that although it isn't part of EAZA (is BIAZA registered though) could provide suitable accomidation if they were given a chance.
 
As far as I know , all European Red River Hogs are very closely related , deriving from initial breedings at Duisburg . If that is still the case then why not let Jersey have one of the Edinburgh brothers ?
 
Nisha said:
They are all boys. From memory I think Jersey's 0:2 are ex Woburn? Given that Woburn's are probably the most represented of any UK (and possibly Europe) pairing there's a good chance that these boys are related to them. I'm sure it was stated on another zc thread sometime ago that Blackbrook wanted the species but were rejected due to the fact that they aren't/wern't a member of EAZA. Surely it wouldn't do any harm to re-house them in a non breeding situation with a collection that isn't part of EAZA than have them put down?? I can think of another collection that although it isn't part of EAZA (is BIAZA registered though) could provide suitable accomidation if they were given a chance.
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Not sure if a new thread was warranted here. The degree of relatedness really isn’t an issue with this species. How many founders for the species (2 or 3)?

I think many of you are a little too emotional with this. Culling is a common occurrence in zoos and for animals with a high mean kinship, in my opinion, it is totally justified.

Cull them, butcher them and feed them to the big cats.
 
Javan Rhino said:
Honestly, what would people prefer here. That the piglets are sent away to somewhere substandard because anywhere with adequate housing for them is full up - here they live a miserable existance just because somebody didn't want to see them culled. Or, they can be spared that and be humanely put to sleep without even knowing it. .
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All Red River Hogs need are a warm dry house, a little hardstanding yard and a nice-sized paddock contained by strong pig-type fencing. They can't be much more difficult to keep than domestic pot-bellied pigs really and with their comical, colourful appearance, they make a very good exhibit. As I mentioned previously there must be a dozen or more good-standard zoos/ wildlife parks currently not exhibiting this species in the UK any of which could quickly build suitable housing if nothing was currently available and easily take these 3 male pigs(part grown now) as non-breeding stock, if Edinburgh tried- or were allowed- to offer them out. Its no secret animals are regularly culled in zoos but its usually done privately. But in this case a rather riduculous 'public' situation could be quickly rectified if a little leeway and common sense was applied. Instead its been allowed to develop into a major issue...

Ridiculous but seemingly because of EEP bureaucracy Edinburgh appear in the unenviable position of being about to get a whole lot more bad publicity and critisism from animal 'lovers' and anti-zoo critics instead if they go ahead with this. But I also note the EEP are avoiding responsibility rather by making it known Edinburgh did not have a recommendation for breeding from their pair- either with this or the previous litter, so implying its the zoos' fault they bred them in the first place.

One thing particularly interests me. Given so many other zoos have been breeding Red River Hogs in the past few years, and some of them like Duisburg, Woburn and Colchester nowadays have sizeable groups, why does this problem appear to have only arisen at Edinburgh?
 
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Pertinax said:
All Red River Hogs need are a warm dry house, a little hardstanding yard and a nice-sized paddock contained by strong pig-type fencing. They can't be much more difficult to keep than domestic pot-bellied pigs really and with their comical, colourful appearance, they make a very good exhibit. As I mentioned previously there must be a dozen or more good-standard zoos/ wildlife parks currently not exhibiting this species in the UK any of which could quickly build suitable housing and easily take these 3 male pigs(part grown now) as non-breeding stock, if Edinburgh tried- or were allowed- to offer them out.
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Good point about zoos, I was thinking more because many people on facebook, the article etc. have been mentioning sending them to farms if they can't find any zoos. Personally, if they would be going to a good home then that would obviously be the best option - but do these zoos want them? I'm sure they're not on the collection plan for some places - why would they want to spend money making an enclosure and house (however cheaply it could be made) when any amount of money would be better going to other projects. Then there is the extra food bills, keeper work, vets bills etc (and probably a huge amount of other resources other than space and money that these zoos may not want to waste on a species they have no real desire in keeping)
 
This is not an expensive species to house, feed or keep- compared with many bigger mammals.

Takers? Look at Blackbrook- a top quality collection- they actually want Red River Hogs...

Look at Dartmoor Wildlife Park- the sort of upcoming place that would probably willingly take a new species like this if offered them. They court publicity and what better than 'saving' some unwanted Hogs- might bring them more visitors too.
Obviously some of the zoos that don't have them, don't want them- fair enough, but I'd wager someone would willingly have them if they were made available- it only needs one collection.

It is not the fact they are being put down that annoys me, but the beaurocratic(?) reasons why its being stated its necessary- when it isn't!!!!.:mad:
 
Pertinax said:
Its no secret animals are regularly culled in zoos but its usually done privately. But in this case a rather riduculous 'public' situation could be quickly rectified if a little leeway and common sense was applied. Instead its been allowed to develop into a major issue...

Ridiculous but seemingly because of EEP bureaucracy Edinburgh appear in the unenviable position of being about to get a whole lot more bad publicity and critisism from animal 'lovers' and anti-zoo critics instead if they go ahead with this. But I also note the EEP are avoiding responsibility rather by making it known Edinburgh did not have a recommendation for breeding from their pair- either with this or the previous litter, so implying its the zoos' fault they bred them in the first place.

One thing particularly interests me. Given so many other zoos have been breeding Red River Hogs in the past few years, and some of them like Duisburg, Woburn and Colchester nowadays have sizeable groups, why does this problem appear to have only arisen at Edinburgh?
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The negative publicity is unfortunate but Edinburgh have no one to blame but themselves (barring a contraceptive failure). Personally I would not condone Edinburgh Zoo giving these animals a reprieve because of a public outcry.

I am sure that many RRH have been culled but this is the first case it has been aired in public.
 
Dicerorhinus said:
I am sure that many RRH have been culled but this is the first case it has been aired in public.
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I think probably some have too. As I've said above, I am actually not getting aerated over the actual culling, rather the reasons being given for it which just don't seem to ring true somehow. Presumably Edinburgh will stop breeding these Hogs from now on or is this one that will run and run?
 
I do see your point Pertinax, I was unaware which collections wanted them and which didn't, and I imagined it to be an 'easy to get hold of' species if places did want them. I saw about Blackbrook, can Edinburgh go against the recommendation and just send them there without consequence though?
 
I don't know that any collections do actually want them, just suggesting that one or two might take them if offered. I think they are quite easy to get hold of but presumably only wihin the EAZA organisation. But despite surplus lists being sent out etc it wouldn't be the first time I've heard a zoo somewhere say things like- 'we'd have had them if we'd known about them' etc. Blackbrook has also been mentioned though it appears they are non EAZA so can't have them. Weird?? It seems its because they are a 'managed' species that all this controversey has arisen. If it was e.g. wild boar this wouldn't apply.

I guess it depends who are the owners as to who decides what's to be done. Edinburgh did indicate after the issue over the first litter that they might have to do the same with this lot- so this news- if it in fact happens- shouldn't be too much of a surprise.
 
Just stop breeding them for heavens sake. I still think culling is rediculous, even if it happens "all the time". You can check beforehand wether or not you can get rid of them and if not, then don't let them be born. If contraceptives are that bad for an animal then keep them in unisex groups. There might be some valid reasons for culling animals in order to keep a healthy population in zoos, but none of these apply for RRH's. Can't stand it when zoos just breed and cull willingly.
 
Why not simply castrate the boars- they can still keep them in normal social groupings then, without more breeding.

Still can't understand why places like Woburn, Colchester & Duisburg can have/keep big groups though while at Edinburgh all this fuss is over the progeny of just one pair.
 
Pertinax said:
I don't know that any collections do actually want them, just suggesting that one or two might take them if offered. I think they are quite easy to get hold of but presumably only wihin the EAZA organisation. But despite surplus lists being sent out etc it wouldn't be the first time I've heard a zoo somewhere say things like- 'we'd have had them if we'd known about them' etc. Blackbrook has also been mentioned though it appears they are non EAZA so can't have them. Weird?? It seems its because they are a 'managed' species that all this controversey has arisen. If it was e.g. wild boar this wouldn't apply.

I guess it depends who are the owners as to who decides what's to be done. Edinburgh did indicate after the issue over the first litter that they might have to do the same with this lot- so this news- if it in fact happens- shouldn't be too much of a surprise.
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Ahhh - so at the end of the day this is just politics? I would imagine it would be better to only have breeding stock as managed, allowing surplus animals to go to collections like Blackbrook - if they are contracepted before leaving a managed breeding program, then I wouldn't see a problem since they wouldn't breed and there would be no need to manage those individuals - if that makes any sense :rolleyes:
 
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