Edinburgh Zoo Not again!

Shoebill said:
Such "discussions" as this only serve to highlight how little some Zoochat members and moderators know about the basic workings of a zoo and EAZA breeding programmes.

Pertinax, you are rocking out the classic lines once more. Brilliant.
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I'm sure in my years as someone working in zoological collections, I must have missed the wisdom you are surely, hopefully, about to impart? Whats the magic secret we all don't know about?
 
Shoebill said:
Such "discussions" as this only serve to highlight how little some Zoochat members and moderators know about the basic workings of a zoo and EAZA breeding programmes.

Pertinax, you are rocking out the classic lines once more. Brilliant.
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Well at the end of the day it is 'only a zoo' - how complex can a zoo be???

Now if this was a nuclear power plant for example then I would respect a Nuclear Power plant engineers view on the matter, however if you have the 'inside' knowledge and facts spill the beans please.

Awaiting with baited breath
 
Shoebill obviously doesn't like any critisism of Edinburgh Zoo or discussion of this rather delicate issue. Understandable perhaps, but to suggest people on here don't understand the 'basic workings of a zoo' is just plain stupid when a number of us have worked in zoos ourselves. And understanding the complexities of EAZA breeding programmes isn't difficult either when the EAZA Pig & Peccary TAG breeding programme reports (2007-2008) are now online, with full details of the Goals (and problems) for Red River Hog, as they were just a couple of years ago, for anyone to study in detail;

Red River Hog;
Goals; the usual 'retain 90% genetic diversity within 100 years'.
priority to breeding from more distantly related/unrelated pairs where possible.
try to obtain unrelated animals from the US.

Problems; up to 20% increase in zoo stock (some years)
so recommended for some new holders to keep single sex groups to start with.
contraception in sows may affect subsequent fertility.
so breed and cull policy may be considered.
extreme inbreeding due to nearly all animals stemming from animals at Duisburg.
enclosures/housing currently used by this species could be more valuably used for more endangered Suidae species.

Also mentioned; a fairly high mortality in juveniles
still a good demand(then) from zoos due to species' attractiveness as an exhibit.

From memory I think that's pretty much it, so excuse me for asking if apart from not being 100% up to date, there is something we don't 'understand' about this programme?


And by the way, the rudeness some people feel they need to resort to in these discussions never ceases to amaze me.
 
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TARZAN said:
Is there not a late chemist open near to where you live? , if not try a pint of milk, it could cure it
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Time to up my medication and add another user to the ignore list,because at the moment you are making the kids on here look very mature!!
 
Javan Rhino said:
I just thought because before this came about they couldn't be sent to a non-EAZA collection - hopefully now there will be some more interest in them from non-EAZA zoos if they can get them. It will be good publicity for whoever steps forward and offers a home for them.
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That certainly seemed to be the case, but with an apparent about turn, proving how flexible the rules can be when a sudden change is required.

Do I sound sceptical...?:)
 
We just have to hope that they will be provided with a suitable home and have no more unneccisary culling!!
 
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TARZAN said:
Go on boy get stuck in that's the spirit, by the way where are Sooty and Sweep tonight perhaps they are taking Sweep's mothers advice by keeping their mouth shut when they have nothing sensible to say.
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(Apologies to other forum members)

Your rude manor and infantile comments Tarzan is extremely uncalled for. Am I not allowed to be passionate or have an opinion on any matter? Bizarre rhetoric coming from the individual who became so upset and personally offended by fun being poked at a poorly written public announcement by twycross!

I find your reference to my age rather amusing to be honest; I am far from a child.

This is a forum where members are entitled to discuss their opinions, views and exchange information between one another. I suggest in the future you that you may want to keep your intolerable, sniping and childish remarks to yourself and respect other members of this forum. Otherwise it may be more than a tree you have to look out for but the moderators as well.

Zoogiraffe I will be joining you in the blocking!:D

Rant Over!
 
Gavin123 said:
(Apologies to other forum members)

Your rude manor and infantile comments Tarzan is extremely uncalled for. Am I not allowed to be passionate or have an opinion on any matter? Bizarre rhetoric coming from the individual who became so upset and personally offended by fun being poked at a poorly written public announcement by twycross!

I find your reference to my age rather amusing to be honest; I am far from a child.

This is a forum where members are entitled to discuss their opinions, views and exchange information between one another. I suggest in the future you that you may want to keep your intolerable, sniping and childish remarks to yourself and respect other members of this forum. Otherwise it may be more than a tree you have to look out for but the moderators as well.

Zoogiraffe I will be joining you in the blocking!:D

Rant Over!
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Gavin, all I was doing was giving you humorous encouragement regarding your views on the red river hoglet culling. If you look at the postings I have made on the red river hog culling thread I think you will find my views on this subject are similar to yours, I admit I have used this forum at times to draw attention to the plight of the second litter of hoglets and fortunately for them it would look as all well that ends well, which I am delighted to see. This is certainly not the first time in my life that I have fallen out with people over sticking up for animals, I am sure it will also not be the last. I appreciate that humour is very much down to ones personal taste, it would appear to knock Twycross zoo on here is the thing to do, its hilarious, however when someone comes on to defend them by batting the ball back over the net, oh no that's terrible, how dare they.
 
johnstoni said:
In his post, Peter Dickinson presented two, highly subjective, opinion pieces he'd previously written as 'the links', as if these are the final word on the subject of Euthanasia from an authoritative voice. Please Mr Dickinson, if you're going to link to even more of the same opinion as the one you post on zoochat, please be clearer that you are linking to more of your own thoughts.

Here are some gems from the articles:



Who are these people? The people who disagree with you? Its quite arrogant to assume that all those who question decisions taken at Edinburgh to be uninformed, did you think you were being magnanimous?



Quite. But those zoos who engage in this kind of marketing cannot complain when their stupid, 'uniformed' customer base, ie their funders, take issue with animals their children have been invited to identify with and feel empathy towards, are to be killed.



Is or can be? Passing is not the same as selling. Passing stock to a non-EEP collection does not mean the recipient collection would not make attempts to join the EEP. It does not mean stock would go to a non-BIAZA/EAZA member.



I'm sure Monkey Haven on the Isle of Wight, or Monkey World, don't appreciate being tarred with the same brush as other rescue establishments. 'Sanctuaries' are a very diverse group of zoological collections, and I don't think you can simplify their role just to support a point you'd like to make.


The irony of this statement needs no explanation.


Am I suddenly reading a press release from Compassion in World Farming? Now we're doing it for the cows? We must cull the 'useless eaters' of the zoo world so that our farm livestock live and die in dignity! Tigers are an amazing teaching tool, go to the Isle of Wight zoo and see if you can find visitors making negative distinctions between their tigers based on genetic purity. They don't need pure tigers to make a decent contribution to tiger conservation.


To make personal choices about your own diet does not mean you'd be arrogant enough to impose these choices on carnivorous animals. This has nothing to do with whether or not you agree with culling, it is disingenous to suggest these things are one and the same.
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An excellent piece of writing Johnstoni, it should be framed.
 
To be honest Tarzan, we all need to be careful when there are strong feelings about an issue that people on both sides feel informed/experienced enough to project opinions on. Humour doesn't always work when people are on guard for someone debating this with them taking a shot....I don't think you should take it personally, just remember that clarity stops people (deliberately or purely by mistake) taking something the wrong way.

I too could do with being less sarcastic when I'm annoyed at people presenting opinion as fact, however its something everyone slips into from time to time. What is important to me is that this issue gets talked about and debated.
 
johnstoni said:
To be honest Tarzan, we all need to be careful when there are strong feelings about an issue that people on both sides feel informed/experienced enough to project opinions on. Humour doesn't always work when people are on guard for someone debating this with them taking a shot....I don't think you should take it personally, just remember that clarity stops people (deliberately or purely by mistake) taking something the wrong way.

I too could do with being less sarcastic when I'm annoyed at people presenting opinion as fact, however its something everyone slips into from time to time. What is important to me is that this issue gets talked about and debated.
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Thanks for your advice, which I have taken, it has always been my policy to take notice of those who speak good common sense. Yes I agree that this is a very important subject that needs to be debated and I look forward to doing so with your good self.
 
I wonder if the people who thought Edinburgh zoo acted in true professionalism by culling the first litter of red river hogs think they have acted unprofessionally by not culling the second litter and deciding instead to re home the three young animals? I know it might be a little early but is there any news about where these animals may be going to?
 
TARZAN said:
I know it might be a little early but is there any news about where these animals may be going to?
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I know of at least 1 collection who have offered to rehome them, they were told that they have never planned to cull them and they are not up for rehoming.
 
nb123 said:
I know of at least 1 collection who have offered to rehome them, they were told that they have never planned to cull them and they are not up for rehoming.
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Thanks for that piece of news, so are we now to assume that the three young hoglets are to remain at Edinburgh? , I now find this to be confusing.
 
Are the three river hoglets to remain at the Royal Zoological Society of Scotland or are they to re homed elsewhere in the future?
 
2nd litter Red River Hog.

Can anyone give an update on what has happened to the 2nd litter of three(?) Red River Hogs at Edinburgh?

Have they put them down, kept them permanently, transferred them elsewhere or still deciding on their longterm future?
 
Pertinax said:
Can anyone give an update on what has happened to the 2nd litter of three(?) Red River Hogs at Edinburgh?

Have they put them down, kept them permanently, transferred them elsewhere or still deciding on their longterm future?
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They are on the list of available animals at the moment.
 
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