Berlin Zoo Knut to be stuffed?

Pertinax

Well-Known Member
15+ year member
An attempt to invite further reasonable discussion about the loss of Knut at Berlin;

1. Reports indicate his death was due to some sort of 'brain problem' which was surely evident from the way the bear circles repeatedly in the video just before he collapses. Presumably a seizure? (Bristol's first-reared Gorilla 'Daniel' died as an adult in very similar and sudden circumstances, also while on display to the public. Anyone know any other similar examples?)

2. They are going to stuff him and put him on display in the museum. Thus following the footsteps of various other famous zoo inhabitants.

Comments?
 
My comment: nothing wrong with stuffing him, he won't be brought back and that way he might live on longer than otherwise would be. But I know there will be public outcry for a funeral by the German State.
 
P.T. Barnum had the foresight to display the skeleton and the stuffed hide of Jumbo separately and sell them to different buyers, thus doubling Jumbo's marketability.
 
P.T. Barnum had the foresight to display the skeleton and the stuffed hide of Jumbo separately and sell them to different buyers, thus doubling Jumbo's marketability.

Yes that is true, however I would like to think that we have moved on a bit since then.
 
My comment: nothing wrong with stuffing him, he won't be brought back and that way he might live on longer than otherwise would be. But I know there will be public outcry for a funeral by the German State.

Sending Knut to the taxidermist does not stir up as much emotions as it has with other animals that have been treated in this fashion as I never had the pleasure of seeing him when he was alive unlike famous zoo animals in this country, if however I had been a regular visitor and had an affinity with this polar bear my opinion would be different, I am not sure if all of Knut's fans will welcome this decision.
 
Yes that is true, however I would like to think that we have moved on a bit since then.

Apparently not.
I can think of no reason to mount Knut other than to continue profiting from him.
I am not sure that I feel there is any moral issue here, but let's see this action for what it is.
 
Apparently not.
I can think of no reason to mount Knut other than to continue profiting from him.
I am not sure that I feel there is any moral issue here, but let's see this action for what it is.

It's hardly unknown for people to have beloved pets stuffed*, so I don't think we can rule out a level of emotional attachment from zoo staff - though I'm sure they're also aware of the level of continuing attention (and potentially, as you say, income) this will bring.

If his remains are to be mounted within a natural history museum, presumably with the hope (and likelihood) of increasing visitor numbers there, or indeed for the zoo, I see this only as a good thing.



*I'm not a big one for euphemism, but 'stuffed', though accurate, does seem a little harsh in this context! 'Mounted'?
 
I agree.
I am very much aware that our zoos and museums need visitors and they need funding... and the current economic/political climate in many countries works against public funding.
So let these institutions do what they must to remain open and continue their mission.
It's a shame that these efforts have to be spun as being done purely for the affection and respect the public has for the little guy. It certainly has little to do with education or science.
Humans love to gawk and they'll pay to do it... or watch So You Think You Can Stutter or whatever,
 
I agree.
I am very much aware that our zoos and museums need visitors and they need funding... and the current economic/political climate in many countries works against public funding.
So let these institutions do what they must to remain open and continue their mission.
It's a shame that these efforts have to be spun as being done purely for the affection and respect the public has for the little guy. It certainly has little to do with education or science.
Humans love to gawk and they'll pay to do it... or watch So You Think You Can Stutter or whatever,

I suppose presenting it as 'a public memorial' is just seen as less controversial.

From an education angle, I would say he's as educationally useful as any other stuffed Polar Bear would be (and many larger NHMs have one of these on show). Science-wise - well, I suppose you could say the same, but I doubt mounted specimens of such a relatively well-studied species are very often used for anything other than display/education in any case.

As I say, if the public's wish to ogle can be used to benefit a zoo or museum's visitor numbers then all good. I'm not sure I'd be so comfortable if he were being flogged to Ripley's Believe It or Not.
 
Maguari;425763 *I'm not a big one for euphemism said:
yes, 'stuffed' does always have slightly derogatory overtones I think, as if its an affront to the animal subject. 'Mounted' is of course the correct term. The press probably prefer 'stuffed' though as it makes it more controversial...
 
Most mammal exhibits at Museum fuer Naturkunde in Berlin are former animals from Berlin zoos (many were very elderly when they died, and even best taxidermists couldn't hide this). This museum struggles for funds and has long-running program of sponsoring for symbolic adoption of specimens. So it wouldn't be anything unusual if Knut goes there, too.

He might also get a monument in Berlin Zoo, too, like gorilla Bobby.

However, I am slightly tired of this bear.
 
If his remains are to be mounted within a natural history museum, presumably with the hope (and likelihood) of increasing visitor numbers there, or indeed for the zoo, I see this only as a good thing.

I agree.

It is, of course, very sad that ‘Knut’ has died but, since he has, what is wrong with exhibiting him in the Museum für Naturkunde?

Various animals from the Berlin Zoo are in this museum including the famous gorilla ‘Bobby’, a quagga and a thylacine; doubtless many of the other specimens are also former zoo inhabitants.

Why shouldn’t ‘Knut’ join them?

Digressing from ‘Knut’:-

P.T. Barnum had the foresight to display the skeleton and the stuffed hide of Jumbo separately and sell them to different buyers, thus doubling Jumbo's marketability.

I always thought that Barnum donated Jumbo’s skeleton to the American Museum of Natural History; frustratingly, this skeleton has never been on display on any of my visits to New York.

Jumbo’s mounted skin was destroyed in a fire in, I think, 1975.
 
I always thought that Barnum donated Jumbo’s skeleton to the American Museum of Natural History; frustratingly, this skeleton has never been on display on any of my visits to New York.

Jumbo’s mounted skin was destroyed in a fire in, I think, 1975.

That is my understanding as well... but only after he displayed it himself.
I just rad that the AMNH took Jumbo's skeleton off permanent exhibit is the mid-1970's as no one was interested any more.
 
An attempt to invite further reasonable discussion about the loss of Knut at Berlin;

Bristol's first-reared Gorilla 'Daniel' died as an adult in very similar and sudden circumstances, also while on display to the public. Anyone know any other similar examples?

Tommy Cooper?
 
Sydney James, Sunderland Empire 1976,

There was a programme about him the other day- apparently they asked if there was a Doctor in the Audience and everyone laughed, thinking it was part of the Act. But it wasn't...

Are there any other animals known to have died suddenly in this fashion? Dicksie the African elephant at London Zoo must have toppled into the moat during public opening hours, though she didn't die until considerably later as I know they tried to get her out alive.

Another incident I know of was the male Gorilla 'Makoko' at the Bronx Zoo in 1951- he died in front of a capacity Sunday afternoon crowd when he tripped as he ran along the moat edge and fell into the watermoat, and drowned.
 
There was a programme about him the other day- apparently they asked if there was a Doctor in the Audience and everyone laughed, thinking it was part of the Act. But it wasn't...

Are there any other animals known to have died suddenly in this fashion? Dicksie the African elephant at London Zoo must have toppled into the moat during public opening hours, though she didn't die until considerably later as I know they tried to get her out alive.

Another incident I know of was the male Gorilla 'Makoko' at the Bronx Zoo in 1951- he died in front of a capacity Sunday afternoon crowd when he tripped as he ran along the moat edge and fell into the watermoat, and drowned.

I remember a Jewish friend of mine telling me of the time when he got a phone call to assist with Mr. James funeral arrangements as this friend was always called upon in this area to assist with the arrangements for Jewish funerals, as I understand Jewish funerals take place within twenty four hours of death. Also Dixie, I have already posted my memories of her on the famous zoo animal thread, and yes Tim may was correct she died in 1967 not 1968. I did start infants school in 1968, what I find interesting in that was that I recall telling the infants school teacher about it and it had happened the year previously, so it was still in my mind a year later, as I previously posted the infants school teacher had been at the zoo on the day of Dixie's death.
 
Getting back to polar bears ;)

Here's a nice letter posted in The Times from Douglas Richardson Animal Collection Manager for the Royal Zoological Society of Scotland

Tuesday March 22 2011 THE TIMES

You can always rely on the anti-zoo faction never to let reality spoil a good quote. "Knut's short and distressed life shows us again that polar bears do not belong in zoos," claimed Wolfgang Apel, of the German animal protection association.

It doesn't matter that a formal investigation into what caused Berlin Zoo's most famous animal to die at the weekend has not yet gathered the facts, let alone reported them; the anti-zoo brigade just know that keeping polar bears in captivity is wrong. But their views are as groundless as they are antiquated.

In the mid-1980s, the polar bear became the poster child for those who believed that zoos were outdated. And given what we now know of the species' needs, the polar bear enclosures of that time were woefully inadequate: they did lead to unnecessary mental and physical suffering. But over the next 20 years, all of our zoos bowed to that justified criticism and phased the species out of their collections, with a single exception.

Mercedes was the last polar bear in the British Isles to live in an old-style zoo. But she now resides at the Highland Wildlife Park with a younger male, Walker, in an area that is vast (five acres) compared with the barren, tiny, concrete pits that used to be found in most zoos. Forward-thinking zoological institutions have learnt from both zoo-based and field research and designed large, natural and complex enclosures. These certainly appear to satisfy the animals.

But as important as meeting the needs of individual polar bears, we have a responsibility to the species. The impact of climate change is most acute at the poles. The shortening of the polar ice season is causing polar bear populations to decline; the bears need the ice as a platform for hunting seals.

The Polar Bear Specialist Group of the International Union for the Conservation of Nature recognises that well-cared for bears within reputable zoos have an important conservation role to play. First, they raise awareness of the threat to bears in their natural habitat. But they could also play a more direct role in saving the species. The few populations that survive in the wild may need to be added to from those in captivity to avoid them becoming dangerously inbred. Without captive bears we would have a reduced number of options for future conservation efforts.

It is frustrating that the anti-zoo elements are unwilling to recognise the sea-change in attitude within zoos and among conservationists. Those who work in zoos have moved on. It's time that our critics caught up.

Douglas Richardson is the animal collection manager for the Royal Zoological Society of Scotland
 
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