Melbourne Zoo Ramalo moves

[Pertinax]

The only zoos I know with quite a few animals are Whipsnade and San Diego Wild Animal Park, and they (at least Whipsnade has) have kept and maintained this species with success for a number of years.

Despite Whipsnade keeping Indian Rhino longer than San Diego, they have actually had far less success with them in the past than San Diego, who now have a much larger number as a result of much more successful breeding.

Whipsnade are breeding more successfully with their current animals, with four calves born-and all surviving- in the last few years.

 

[Jarkari]

Bad example though. Taronga built Dubbo. Dubbo is also a state run zoo. And without Taronga subsidising it, Dubbo wouldn't exist. And we all know why they choose to breed tigers at Taronga - to make money. Money needed to keep Dubbo (which is in the middle of nowhere) alive and running.

I haven't been to Dubbo (I would love to), but I considering how little I think of Taronga, I'm sure its safe to assume which zoo I'd like more. But thats beside the point. Taronga can do just about whatever it likes with Dubbo - because it owns it. Dubbo is a part of Taronga.

But if you would like to give another example, say of a State run zoo bullying a private one - I'd love to hear...

Dubbo was built because Taronga needed Dubbo. They are two completey different zoos and I personally am not a fan of the Taronga name now on the front of WPZ. Not because I don't like Taronga but because it causes too much confusion. And Taronga means something like water views, aleast then the two zoos were separated. Taronga does not "own" dubbo, they are two different institutions run by the TCSA. Now I'm being picky, I know but that one frustrates me.

Otherwise I don't disagree with what you have said. As for the rhinos. There's room for them if they breed and no one wants them. Who knows what the future may hold for dubbo.
There are also some great advances in rhino reproduction science that could benefit all ungulate (and other) species in Australia without the need for live animal imports and introductions of new founder pairs without any animals actually having to come here. Although this could be some time off. Anyway I think we should get back to the topic.

 

[Jabiru96]

Despite Whipsnade keeping Indian Rhino longer than San Diego, they have actually had far less success with them in the past than San Diego, who now have a much larger number as a result of much more successful breeding.

Whipsnade are breeding more successfully with their current animals, with four calves born-and all surviving- in the last few years.

Fair enough. But my point is that these animal are hard to acquire and therefore manage so you can't blame TWPZ for getting on board with this species when they are not to easy to acquire or breed. Look at Taronga with Francois Langurs for example, fair enough they brought in a whole new species into the country but in the 5 years they have had them they have managed to build up their numbers from 2 through breeding and acquiring new individuals to 6, and other zoos are looking to acquire them as well.

Who knows, maybe Werribee will shift away from its African focus and try to get some other species as well, such as Greater One Horned Rhinos or Asian Elephants?

 

[Electus Parrot]

But why would they do that if Melbourne already has elephants?

 

[Jabiru96]

But why would they do that if Melbourne already has elephants?

As a new facility to hold them so more elephants could be brought in and the program expand? Werribee would be great as well (just like its NSW counterpart Dubbo) as it could build a large facility that could hold many more elephants than the city zoos.

 

[Pertinax]

Fair enough. But my point is that these animal are hard to acquire and therefore manage so you can't blame TWPZ for getting on board with this species when they are not to easy to acquire or breed.

I wasn't entering into your debate really- just pointing out that the popular belief that Whipsnade have been very successfully with Indian rhino isn't really true.

They have kept them continuously since the 1950's but in that time have only had (about) fourteen births;

Ist pair; Mohan/Mohini. 2 calves. both reared but neither bred at maturity.

2nd pair(not related to above) Kumar/Roopa. 8(?) calves. 4(males) reared to maturity. Some now breeding at other zoos in Europe.

3rd quartet; Jaffna/Hugo(males)/Behan/Beluki(females). 4 calves, all reared(to date). (Jaffna returned to Basel after fathering the first two calves.)

Its not a brilliant record, whereas San Diego have recorded many more births and have many more rhinos now. Just thought you might be interested.

 

[peacock]

I was interested Pertinax...

 

[Jabiru96]

I wasn't entering into your debate really- just pointing out that the popular belief that Whipsnade have been very successfully with Indian rhino isn't really true.

They have kept them continuously since the 1950's but in that time have only had (about) fourteen births;

Ist pair; Mohan/Mohini. 2 calves. both reared but neither bred at maturity.

2nd pair(not related to above) Kumar/Roopa. 8(?) calves. 4(males) reared to maturity. Some now breeding at other zoos in Europe.

3rd quartet; Jaffna/Hugo(males)/Behan/Beluki(females). 4 calves, all reared(to date). (Jaffna returned to Basel after fathering the first two calves.)

Its not a brilliant record, whereas San Diego have recorded many more births and have many more rhinos now. Just thought you might be interested.

No, no, I didn't think you were entering the debate anyway, I was just using your comment to base my comment. No debate intended

 

[Jordan-Jaguar97]

I wasn't entering into your debate really- just pointing out that the popular belief that Whipsnade have been very successfully with Indian rhino isn't really true.

They have kept them continuously since the 1950's but in that time have only had (about) fourteen births;

Ist pair; Mohan/Mohini. 2 calves. both reared but neither bred at maturity.

2nd pair(not related to above) Kumar/Roopa. 8(?) calves. 4(males) reared to maturity. Some now breeding at other zoos in Europe.

3rd quartet; Jaffna/Hugo(males)/Behan/Beluki(females). 4 calves, all reared(to date). (Jaffna returned to Basel after fathering the first two calves.)

Its not a brilliant record, whereas San Diego have recorded many more births and have many more rhinos now. Just thought you might be interested.

Whipsnade is the only place in the UK (so far) to breed Indian Rhinos. I remember for a while they had 1.3 (4?) (Jaffna, Behan, Beluki, Asha and Roopa?)

Mohini arrived at Whipsnade in 1952 and spent about 22 years at Whipsnade until she moved to London Zoo in 1974. She moved to Amsterdam/Artis in 1976 and died in 1985.

Mohan stayed at Whipsnade from being a year old until his death. He and Mohini reared two calves; Manik born in 1960 but he didn't survive and died at 14/15 years old.

Whipsnade imported Roopa from Delhi in 1973 and she reared a few calves. She only died about four years ago, so she did live to a good age. Kumar arrived at Whipsnade in 1976 and died in 2002. I think Roopa and Kumar had a female offspring in 1981 but not sure if she survived. They had another calf in 1993 but unsuccessfully.

Bheema was the first successful Whipsnade calf they had. Born in 1983 he was born to Roopa and Kumar, the first calf for them. He moved to Belgium (Planckendael?) in 1985 but died about thirteen years or so ago.

Chester's first male Indian Rhino was from Whipsnade. Yodha/Rama was born in 1986 (Roopa x Kumar) and arrived in 1987. He spent about ten years on his own before moving to Berlin where he has since sired calves.

I believe the male at Nuremburg was/is from ZSL Whipsnade but not 100% sure on that. If I remember correctly Teja (Ex Planckendael, now Lisbon?) spent about four or five years at Whipsnade.

Jaffna/Beluki/Behan; Jaffna was imported from San Diego for Basel. He bred with Basel's female. He sired two calves in 2006/07 which are 'Asha' and 'Rap'. Rap is the new breeding bull at West Mid's, and Asha is the new female at Chester. Asha is only Chester's second cow after Batschii. Behan/Beluki were imported by ZSL London Zoo in 1996/97, they have bred four calves between them (Ajang, Asha, Karamat and Rap).

Hugo; Hugo was born at Rotterdam and his father was 'Nico' now at Terra Natura Benidorm. Hugo bred with both Behan and Beluki once (so far) and is still currently at ZSL Whipsnade.

Current group;
Males- Hugo and Ajang
Females- Behan, Beluki, Karamat

Both females still live in the 'Old house' which originally house the pair of White Rhinos they had in the 1970's and it has been reported on another thread that it will house the young Gaur bull.