ZSL London Zoo Casson Pavillion Ideas
- Thread starter mcatee123
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I would think about changing the use of the space. Making public pathway partially go through the former animal spaces, and turning indoor area into 1-3 large exhibits.
About species - definitely something charismatic and endangered. Given that this is a house, tropical. Good candidates are apes, monkeys, tropical bears (sun or spectacled) or maybe large crocodile.
However, London zoo seems to have unusual problems with design. My impression is strange thrashing between boringly specialized and too dumbed down popular. This is surprising in a world city with many architects and BBC TV team which combines popularity without sacrificing an inch of education. But bad design is problem in many public works in Britain.
London zoo could do well to study some zoo exhibits abroad. Not like with gorilla exhibit, which is a mirror of 30 year old gorilla exhibits at Jersey and Arnhem. Good examples for London are new cat jungle and Bongori ape house in Frankfurt and Gamgoas house in Basel. All three are super naturalistic, highly attractive and highly educative indoor houses in a limited space. Just an hour flight away for many London bussinesspeople. Or Madagascar house in New York. Maybe London could even employ the same teams?
About species - definitely something charismatic and endangered. Given that this is a house, tropical. Good candidates are apes, monkeys, tropical bears (sun or spectacled) or maybe large crocodile.
However, London zoo seems to have unusual problems with design. My impression is strange thrashing between boringly specialized and too dumbed down popular. This is surprising in a world city with many architects and BBC TV team which combines popularity without sacrificing an inch of education. But bad design is problem in many public works in Britain.
London zoo could do well to study some zoo exhibits abroad. Not like with gorilla exhibit, which is a mirror of 30 year old gorilla exhibits at Jersey and Arnhem. Good examples for London are new cat jungle and Bongori ape house in Frankfurt and Gamgoas house in Basel. All three are super naturalistic, highly attractive and highly educative indoor houses in a limited space. Just an hour flight away for many London bussinesspeople. Or Madagascar house in New York. Maybe London could even employ the same teams?
mazfc
Well-Known Member
As has already been said, I think it's important to have a good mixture in zoos to attract as diverse a crowd as possible.
The majority of people, before arriving at a zoo, go to see the big charismatic animals - the ABCs ( I hate this label I think it is disrespectful to some amazing creatures who are well worth more than a dismissmive glance). Publicity over the births of these popular animals generate a lot of foot-through for any zoo. Without Joe Public there wouldnt be money for anything.
However, once people are in I have found that they can become fascinated by the different, more unusual animals on show as well. That's where education comes in once people are through the door. I often think that good keeper talks should make links to other creatures that share a natural environment with the larger animals, and that people should be encouraged by the keeper talk to see them on their visit.
I know most of this has already been said, but I wanted to put in my two pennies worth
The majority of people, before arriving at a zoo, go to see the big charismatic animals - the ABCs ( I hate this label I think it is disrespectful to some amazing creatures who are well worth more than a dismissmive glance). Publicity over the births of these popular animals generate a lot of foot-through for any zoo. Without Joe Public there wouldnt be money for anything.
However, once people are in I have found that they can become fascinated by the different, more unusual animals on show as well. That's where education comes in once people are through the door. I often think that good keeper talks should make links to other creatures that share a natural environment with the larger animals, and that people should be encouraged by the keeper talk to see them on their visit.
I know most of this has already been said, but I wanted to put in my two pennies worth
You boys and girls may just as well go figure skating as it ain't going to happen what ye all suggesting. Cost-benefit analysis: 0. 
I'm afraid, London zoo will be closed unless it brings many more charismatic animals. And unless it replaces its unimpressive dens and paddocks with modern exhibits. Somehow, almost all big mammals in London are in category of "scruffy, smallish and boring for visitors" (aardvarks, wallabies, african wild dogs, anoas, bearded pigs, malayan tapirs, pygmy hippos, anteaters, patagonian cavies...)
I am not even talking about adding extra acres from Regent's Park, because it is too revolutionary (although was done in dozen cities of the world before).
Zoo lacks space, but many city zoos have similar space and much better collections. Layout can be changed, instead of putting smaller and smaller animals into the same exhibits. Dead space like areas of greenery, ponds and sloping ground can be used, if you design exhibits so that they go inside them. Old buildings can be redesigned. Wide moats can be replaced by glass.
The zoo can, indeed, keep large collection of small animals, but in-addition-to, not instead-of. For example, the zoo could bring new monkey species which are relatively small, endangered and charismatic.
Several city zoos made the same error before. They slashed too many popular species and tried to concentrate on small animals or field conservation (Antwerp, Basel, etc). They suffered complaints from visitors and financial losses. Which of course translated into no money for small animals and no interest in conservation programs.
I am not even talking about adding extra acres from Regent's Park, because it is too revolutionary (although was done in dozen cities of the world before).
Zoo lacks space, but many city zoos have similar space and much better collections. Layout can be changed, instead of putting smaller and smaller animals into the same exhibits. Dead space like areas of greenery, ponds and sloping ground can be used, if you design exhibits so that they go inside them. Old buildings can be redesigned. Wide moats can be replaced by glass.
The zoo can, indeed, keep large collection of small animals, but in-addition-to, not instead-of. For example, the zoo could bring new monkey species which are relatively small, endangered and charismatic.
Several city zoos made the same error before. They slashed too many popular species and tried to concentrate on small animals or field conservation (Antwerp, Basel, etc). They suffered complaints from visitors and financial losses. Which of course translated into no money for small animals and no interest in conservation programs.
Rather less than fair, I think. They do show gorillas, lions, tigers, zebras, giraffes and okapis - none of which can fairly be described as smallish or scruffy. I'd add camels, except that they can be scruffy for long periods.
The others are perhaps less charismatic (except for the tapirs, but they tend to be invisible). But they could certainly add more large mammals (large kangaroos on the Mappins for example).
Actually almost all of the exhibits have been built or refurbished within the past 40 years - the only major exceptions are the Cotton Terraces (around the Giraffe House) which I think are a little older, the aviaries on the north bank of the canal, the Reptile House and the Aquarium. That doesn't mean that they are all ideal, but I wouldn't say that any species at Regents Park is badly housed.
I am surprised that no-one has supported the idea I floated in the previous thread: I think that the unique interior of the Casson building should contain a unique exhibit - the world's only walk-through flying snake aviary. This is the sort of imaginative thinking that zoos need
Alan
elephantking
Well-Known Member
But look at a zoo like the central park zoo which was formally an old outdated zoo that held elephants, tigers, gorillas and more in a 5 acre site. It got rebuilt on the same site with polar bears, snow leopards and sea lions as it's only large animals and gets more than a million visitors a year. When i go i see people telling there parents "look mom its a red panda" so a zoo without the abc animals can be sucessful.
if zambar doesn't mind i have quoted his plan for the pavillion, and personally this (or something similar to this) i have also attached his image plan for the pavillion
Attachments
This only shows that London zoo is out of touch with best examples of small European city zoos. I would say it is very few interesting animals and very old age of exhibits.
Succesful zoo of this kind should have 3-4 more charismatic animals (charismatic I don't mean red kangaroos or okapis) - chosen from for example orangutans, bears, large spotted cats, large crocodiles, common hippos and rhinos.
Casson Pavillion has space for perhaps two of these, plus several small animals to complete whatever theme is set there.
Orangutans, sun bears, macaque/langur troop and 3-4 small mammals and reptiles would nicely match the South Asian theme of nearby Sumatran tigers.
Its worth noting London have exhibited all of these species you mention in the past, some quite recently, others, like Common Hippos, not for many years now.
Rhinos-The decision was taken in the early 1990's to remove all the Rhinos and Elephants to Whipsnade, as the building afforded insufficient space for them. I'm sure they will never return to Regents Park.
Bears- returned to Regents Park after a period of absence when the Sloth Bear exhibit was opened on the Mappin Terraces. The bears were not a satisfactory exhibit and later moved to Whipsnade, I doubt they will try larger Bears again after that, though sun Bears might be an acceptable compromise.
Orangutans- they left the Sobell Pavilions about the time the Zoo was in financial crisis(early 90's) as they were thought 'labour intensive' compared to the other Apes and the least satifactory species as an exhibit. I can imagine with its height and vaulted ceilings the Casson House could be adapted for them however and would make a better area than the Sobell Pavilons which were constructed/designed for Primates(comparisons here with Bristol Zoo where the Gorillas live in the converted Elephant quarters and it makes a more satisfactory exhibit than the previous purpose built Ape House was.) If Orangutans were to return to London I hope they would be Sumatran too- numerically at a low ebb both in the Wild and in UK zoos, far more active and so a much more interesting exhiit than Borneans make.
Large Crocodiles- I noticed their absence on a recent visit- something I certainly think the Zoo should address.
Spotted Cats- (Asian) Leopards could quite logically be accomodated in the Casson Pavilion and would complement the nearby tigers.
I agree the building needs a theme and with the planned proximity of the Tigers, South East Asia seems to be the obvious one for them to adopt. There are still the four large main 'Bays' for housing in the Interior and I would suggest each of these four was devoted to one main species(or mix of species) from the following;
Sumatran Orangutans.
Sun Bears.
Malayan Tapirs.
One group of either Langurs/Macaques/gibbons.(they have existing examples of all three in the Zoo already)
Hornbills/ Asian birds.
Leopards.
Outside enclosures would be designed according to species kept, but several seperate exhibits could be made on the available landspace.
...and get rid of the Bearded Pigs/Anoas etc which are non-exhibits for the public.
I think many of the zoos that you want London to emulate receive state or municipal funding and I doubt if any of them spend as much on research and in situ conservation: so your comparison is loaded against ZSL.
I agree that London could house orangs and sun bears - but would they be allowed to modify the structure of the Casson building to make acceptable accommodation for either species? Moving the Malayan tapirs in the Casson building to complement the tigers avoids that problem.
The tapir's enclosure will then be available for another species. It might be too small for the pygmy hippos displaced by the tigers. They might replace the bearded pigs in the other half of the Casson (extending the pools in the paddocks and converting the dry moat inside into a wet one might be permissible) or they might construct a new enclosure on the site of the current tiger cage. If that site is not needed for the hippos, it could be used for a sun bear enclosure.
I don't think they could fit large crocs into the Reptile House, but I've always thought that the old restaurant building looking over the pool at the bottom of the Mappins might be used for something like that. It has been unused for many years, but if the structure is sound it could be used as a shell for a new interior, which might be cheaper than a whole new building: I think there's space for one large croc enclosure and perhaps a smaller one for juveniles or a dwarf species plus a pool for a large turtle species - the giant pond turtles or my favourite pig-nosed turtles which would look spectacular in a deep tank when they grow up.
Alan
I can't answer your first point, but the simplest scenario (usually the only one that happens!
) would be the Tapirs moving in and afaik that's on the plans already. As is a new Pygmy Hippo enclosure where the existing Zoo Entrance is, so it would be adjacent to Gorilla Kingdom. The current Tapir enclosure on the Cotton Terraces would probably then be modified, perhaps removing the moat as they did at the other end with the Okapis, before another(presumably African) species moved in.Unfortunately I don't rate the Pygmy hippo or the Tapirs, very highly as exhibits- they are often comotose and quickly passed by most visitors, even if(in the Tapirs case), they are visible. The(Bornean) Pig group is interesting to specialists but probably very boring to general visitors and I agree to an extent with Jurek7's point that the area would benefit from some more 'active' exhibits e.g. primates.
I agree that the bearded pigs are a bit of a waste of space in a prime londonm spavce constrained zoo. Sun bears could work but bears do have a reputation of performing poorly in captivity and need lots of space to thrive (hence the sloth bears being removed to whipsnade).
I think the old elephant enclosure would make a good, large tiger exhibit. But given the space constraints at london, the most efficient thing to do would be mixed exhibits which you just cant do with tigers (although a mixed tapir/tiger exhibit would be well exciting for tourists!). So, could london ditch the tigers, and use the elephant pen for mixed orangs/lar gibbons/tapirs if properly planted and landscaped? one specie uses the floor whilst the others linger higher up. The rhino bit could be used for anoa/crested macaques mixed together a la artis.
The biggest shame of all tho is what london zoo (sorry i refuse to call it ZSL london) have done to the mappin terraces. I spoke to a keeper recently whilst there and he said the australian thing is a short to medium term tempory thing whilst something much more spectacular is planned. Temporary or not, no one pays 20 quid to come in and see emu, wallaby and unheard of birds and a childresn farm!
I think the old elephant enclosure would make a good, large tiger exhibit. But given the space constraints at london, the most efficient thing to do would be mixed exhibits which you just cant do with tigers (although a mixed tapir/tiger exhibit would be well exciting for tourists!). So, could london ditch the tigers, and use the elephant pen for mixed orangs/lar gibbons/tapirs if properly planted and landscaped? one specie uses the floor whilst the others linger higher up. The rhino bit could be used for anoa/crested macaques mixed together a la artis.
The biggest shame of all tho is what london zoo (sorry i refuse to call it ZSL london) have done to the mappin terraces. I spoke to a keeper recently whilst there and he said the australian thing is a short to medium term tempory thing whilst something much more spectacular is planned. Temporary or not, no one pays 20 quid to come in and see emu, wallaby and unheard of birds and a childresn farm!
johnstoni.
Well-Known Member
While in my opinion it would be too small for this (grazing) species, I don't think that would prevent London from using it for this purpose. Bristol and Colchester have equally small spaces for their hippos, so I don't think the general public perception would be of a cramped space. In addition, the indoor facilities are extremely spacious for just one or two individuals, better even than the indoor quarters at what is arguably the best accommodation for this species in the UK, Marwell.
This listed building is in use, hired out for private functions and used for specific events. It attracts more revenue than it ever could as an animal exhibit, and for this reason I feel it is a worthwhile use of the building. Do we really need to see 'large crocs' at London?
Is the space for the new pygmy hippo enclosure smaller than Edinburghs ?
Id say that Edinburghs is a decent minimum size .
Id happily pay 20 quid to see unheard of birds
Id say that Edinburghs is a decent minimum size .
Id happily pay 20 quid to see unheard of birds
London zoo also received government money for years. It still has a very good reason to appeal for funds to the city, if it proves it generates income from visitors.
Still, many city zoos receive little public funding and fund much research and conservation projects (although I am not sure how spending of Bronx, Zurich or Frankfurt Zoological Society compares to ZSL). They established a network of sponsors, supporters and enthusiasts who generate funds for both zoo and research.
Perhaps important is that these zoos recognize value of their animals to generate people's interest and enthusiasm. And see the zoo primarily as an ambassador or public relations department of wild nature, generating funds and support.
Just out of interest: wouldn't it be possible to lease several acres of grass lawns from Regents Park for 1GBP for new exhibits for camels and other hoofed animals? Lots of zoos abroad solved their space problem this way.
Just out of interest: wouldn't it be possible to lease several acres of grass lawns from Regents Park for 1GBP for new exhibits for camels and other hoofed animals? Lots of zoos abroad solved their space problem this way.
There have been various rumours over the years about the Zoo wanting to extend into the Park a bit more. Nothing has ever happened and it seems there are rigid rules which will(unfortunately) ensure its prevention in the future either.