Paignton Zoo Paignton Zoo

[Gigit]

My blood pressure has just returned to normal after an ill-timed visit to the zoo - school holidays, beautiful day, you get the picture Some "news":

Damisi is still here.
The new male Allen's Swamp Monkey now has the company of a female (I'm not sure whether she's one of the originals or one of the new ones) but is still confined to the house.
The last Bison has gone and the stable and paddock are being revamped to accommodate the male Lowland Anoa and two new arrivals.
Missy, the Mandrill, has not given birth yet.
The smaller Orangutan island has been revamped with more climbing frames, ropes etc in readiness for Demo and Mali coming out of quarantine next month.

 

[Gigit]

..........and the collared peccaries have a new electric fence after their adventure on Monday!

 

[Pertinax]

My blood pressure has just returned to normal after an ill-timed visit to the zoo - school holidays, beautiful day, you get the picture Some "news":

Damisi is still here.

The smaller Orangutan island has been revamped with more climbing frames, ropes etc in readiness for Demo and Mali coming out of quarantine next month.

Yes, I visited Paignton once during August- it was terrible! My normal zoo visiting rule is NO School Holidays or Bank Holidays(the very worst). Favourite times?- quiet weekdays during termtime & Saturdays are often quiet as people seem to do other things and there are never any school groups on Saturdays...

I'm beginning to wonder if 'Damisi' will go to Chessington at all now. They can easily obtain another similar-aged male from Port Lympne who have plenty of suitable candidates and one was to come from there originally. Its a great pity Blackpool or Twycross can't take him (Damisi) as I know he would be a sure-fire breeder.

Swamp Monkeys- please remind me Gigit, what's the current total and where are they living (if not all together)?

I'm surprised Demo & Mali will have the smaller Orangutan Island, and not just be mixed with the others.

 

[Gigit]

Yes - if it's not school holidays, it's school groups! In the height of the summer, we'll usually visit late in the afternoon as people are leaving. The most peaceful season is winter!
There are now 4 Swamp Monkeys - one male and three females, that I know of. The male and female are in the house near the Ape House and the others are in the mysterious 'off show area' which, I think, could be near the Vet's centre. It must be quite difficult for zoos to accommodate animals in quarantine for 6 months, apart from it being hard on the animals.
I'm not sure how the mixing of Demo and Mali will go. Chinta is in line to meet Demo first - maybe they'll have the small island for a while. I guess there will be some chopping and changing, and alterations to the present routine of Chinta outside, Bulu and Gambira usually in the show den and Demo and Mali off show.
I hope they can find a new home for Damisi soon

 

[Pertinax]

.
I'm not sure how the mixing of Demo and Mali will go. Chinta is in line to meet Demo first - maybe they'll have the small island for a while. I guess there will be some chopping and changing, and alterations to the present routine of Chinta outside, Bulu and Gambira usually in the show den and Demo and Mali off show.

They should be able to get all the Orangs together quite quickly- they're usually quite peaceful creatures and there's plenty of space in Paignton's enclosure(s)
re Damisi- I guess he's still scheduled to go to Chessington but its become a major holdup now and I wouldn't blame Chessington for asking Port Lympne for one of their males instead.

 

[Gigit]

They should be able to get all the Orangs together quite quickly- they're usually quite peaceful creatures.

I don't think anyone's told Chinta that! She's had "issues" about dominance with Gigit and Bulu. I hope the prospect of motherhood is her overriding emotion when she meets the newbies. Maybe the odd personality clash is to be expected in such a complex and highly developed species.

 

[Pertinax]

I don't think anyone's told Chinta that! She's had "issues" about dominance with Gigit and Bulu. I hope the prospect of motherhood is her overriding emotion when she meets the newbies. Maybe the odd personality clash is to be expected in such a complex and highly developed species.

Yes, there are bound to be a few scuffles perhaps, but usually there isn't the same serious fighting that you can get with newly introduced chimps or gorillas. The only exception is two adult males as they are highly territorial.
Chester used to have two adult males that lived together compatibly for many years and when they moved them to new accomodation it upset the 'balance' somehow and they started fighting- one later died from a bite he received on his hand.. Its very rare for zoos to keep adult males under those conditions nowadays.

 

[Pertinax]

... have you ever seen the episode of 'Zoo Keepers' where 'Pertinax' is introduced to the younger male 'Mambi' for the first time? He really gives him a thrashing... 'Mambi' had to leave the group eventually as he didn't really fit in.

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

... have you ever seen the episode of 'Zoo Keepers' where 'Pertinax' is introduced to the younger male 'Mambi' for the first time? He really gives him a thrashing... 'Mambi' had to leave the group eventually as he didn't really fit in.

Hi Pertinax,

OK a bit off-topic, but it was an unsupervised goal and I could not help myself for trying (I am an Ajax soccer team season ticket holder)! Surely, ... I hope ... it is Pertinax the gorilla and not Pertinax the man, ...???

Why is Damisi being held up? What is stopping Chessington from taking in another gorilla silverback (from Port Lympne ... where they have 10+ to shift)?

 

[Pertinax]

Hi Pertinax,

OK a bit off-topic, but it was an unsupervised goal and I could not help myself for trying (I am an Ajax soccer team season ticket holder)! Surely, ... I hope ... it is Pertinax the gorilla and not Pertinax the man, ...???

Why is Damisi being held up? What is stopping Chessington from taking in another gorilla silverback (from Port Lympne ... where they have 10+ to shift)?

Yeah- Pertinax(my namesake) is the oldest gorilla male in the Paignton batchelor group. He was born 13.4.82 in Stuttgart (Banjo x Dina) handraised and then grew up in Cologne. Later he was sent (along with 'Klaus') to start the Paignton batchelor group. Normally a placid male but definately the boss if he needs to be...

Damisi- I was expecting him to go to Chessington as their new male before Christmas! Its now April and the delay is still going on- its political stuff regarding the EEP but I don't know the full facts or the outcome yet. (During this time I think he's been on his own since Mapema went to Duisburg)

However, I think my sympathies are with Chessington. Originally they were to have a male from Port Lympne called 'Djumbah(he was also born in 1996 but is still quite undeveloped) but the next I heard it was to be 'Damisi' from Paignton's group instead. The Port Lympne male is one of their less represented ones- maybe they should ask for him again...

 

[Gigit]

... have you ever seen the episode of 'Zoo Keepers' where 'Pertinax' is introduced to the younger male 'Mambi' for the first time? He really gives him a thrashing... 'Mambi' had to leave the group eventually as he didn't really fit in.

Was he the gorilla who'd been raised with chimps and thought he was one?

I've had the chance to see Demo and Mali in the show den a couple of times over the weekend and they are a joy to watch (no disrespect, Bulu!) and look settled and happy. Full marks to Munster and Paignton for arranging for them to move together.

 

[Pertinax]

Was he the gorilla who'd been raised with chimps and thought he was one?

Mambi (Mamfe x Biddy) was certainly handraised at Twycross, so he may have spent time with baby chimps very early on, though he later lived in the small gorilla group with Sekondi(male) and Asante(female) Twycross needed to send him away as he started to dominate Sekondi whom they wanted to keep for breeding. In the Paignton group he seemed socially isolated and rather unhappy. Not being used to older males, he wouldn't defer to Pertinax- hence the 'beating' whenhe was finally put with him. Then later on he grew very rapidly into a silverback and had to be isolated. He was sent to France to be the 'head boy' in another batchelor group as they felt this suited his dominant personality. That seemed to work out okay but he was recently moved to the new park at Valencia in Spain with a female but I've heard he's not getting along with her very well...

 

[Gigit]

Black Rhino on the move

I've just discovered that Kingo, the male black rhino, is leaving temporarily to be a stud at another zoo. I spotted that he was being crate trained a couple of days ago but couldn't find anybody who'd spill the beans. I've had it confirmed today but don't yet know where he's heading. He'll return when Sita is ready to breed again.

 

[Pertinax]

I've just discovered that Kingo, the male black rhino, is leaving temporarily to be a stud at another zoo. I spotted that he was being crate trained a couple of days ago but couldn't find anybody who'd spill the beans. I've had it confirmed today but don't yet know where he's heading. He'll return when Sita is ready to breed again.

Don't leave us in suspense too long!! If in the UK then he must be either returning to Port Lympne or heading to Chester.

 

[Pertinax]

I've had the chance to see Demo and Mali in the show den a couple of times over the weekend and they are a joy to watch (no disrespect, Bulu!) and look settled and happy. Full marks to Munster and Paignton for arranging for them to move together.

I think that when a pair can be moved together like that, its much better than a single animal. It prevents the 'pining' and depression that I mentioned before- in Orangs that can sometimes be really serious, almost life threatening...

I presume the plan is for Demo to breed with Chinta & Gambira as well?

 

[Gigit]

Yes - Chinta will be first, then Gambira when she's a bit older. They'd want to put Gambira in with Chinta when she had a baby so that she could pick up a few tips. There could be exciting times ahead

 

[Gigit]

Mambi (Mamfe x Biddy) was certainly handraised at Twycross... In the Paignton group he seemed socially isolated and rather unhappy.... he was recently moved to the new park at Valencia in Spain with a female but I've heard he's not getting along with her very well...

Handrearing does seem to result in animals who are 'different' - I watched mandrill, Babinka, today having no contact at all with the group, for example, and Gigit obviously didn't give off the right vibes to her companions. I wonder if Monkey World's (and maybe other zoos?) system of sharing the rearing of rejected baby apes with orang and chimp foster mothers, and other youngsters, will produce better adjusted individuals? I can't remember seeing any adult gorillas in the Stuttgart nursery, though, of course, Paignton's got Pertinax as a role model for the slightly older age group.

 

[Pertinax]

Handrearing does seem to result in animals who are 'different' - I wonder if Monkey World's (and maybe other zoos?) system of sharing the rearing of rejected baby apes with orang and chimp foster mothers, and other youngsters, will produce better adjusted individuals? I can't remember seeing any adult gorillas in the Stuttgart nursery

yes, handrearing can sometimes mess them up for the rest of their lives. I think the Monkey World policy is the way to go, far more natural though not always possible. Its far preferable to just rearing infants with other babies(especially of another species) for company as they can't develop proper social skills without any contact with adult animals. Zoos have often shied away from the risk of introducing(valuable) babies back to adult groups while they are very small, but where it has been done, the result is a far superior socialised animal.

The Stuttgart nursery is just that- a nursery. I heard there were plans to either close it (this method of 'orphan' rearing being largely outmoded) or redesign it to allow the infants being reared there to have proper contact with adult apes of their own species.

I think in Mambi's case it was a mixture of his earlier rearing experiences combined with a dominant personality that created the problems.

 

[MARK]

Zoos have often shied away from the risk of introducing(valuable) babies back to adult groups while they are very small, but where it has been done, the result is a far superior socialised animal. [/QUOTE]

The San Deigo Wild animal park has had success in introducing young baby Gorllias back into the troop,

 

[Pertinax]

Zoos have often shied away from the risk of introducing(valuable) babies back to adult groups while they are very small, but where it has been done, the result is a far superior socialised animal.

The San Deigo Wild animal park has had success in introducing young baby Gorllias back into the troop, [/QUOTE]

Chessington did it too with their firstborn Gorilla baby, whose mother died when she was about nine months old... by the time the baby 'Shani' was 18 months old she was back living fulltime in the group (skillfull management by the keeper)- she is now one of the main breeding females in their group.

Its interesting that despite handraising many 'orphan' baby gorillas rejected by their mothers, I've never known Howletts adopt this policy of reintroducing them back into their natal groups.