Given Birma's quite advanced age for a (hopefully) first time breeder, I'm surprised they aren't trying to breed from her now.
I imagine it may be some practical issue about which elephants like being together in a group etc.Chester Zoo Is Elephant 'Birma' pregnant?
- Thread starter Pertinax
- Start date
Given Birma's quite advanced age for a (hopefully) first time breeder, I'm surprised they aren't trying to breed from her now.
I imagine it may be some practical issue about which elephants like being together in a group etc.
dragon(ele)nerd
Well-Known Member
Given Birma's quite advanced age for a (hopefully) first time breeder, I'm surprised they aren't trying to breed from her now.
Yeah your right, elephants can just be like humans although female, Birma could be somehwat of a loner, like me. Birma spent her early years in isolation. So maybe when she first came to chester Birma had trouble interacting with the other females. Though i wonder why they didn't try her with Chang when he was there?
Hadn't Chang already left by the time Birma arrived? i may be mistaken though...
Birma came to Chester after Chang had already left. Although she lived on her own for many years at Mauberg Zoo in France, she seems socially okay and I believe is now good friends with Sheba.
I'm guessing here but the logistics of splitting her from Sheba to place with Upali might be a problem, or if upali goes in with the whole group there's a danger of too early impregnation of Sithami and(yes!) even Sundara... or maybe there's some other (EEP recommendation perhaps?)reason they are not doing any elephant breeding until next year.
Is sheba still managing to survive okay?
I'm guessing here but the logistics of splitting her from Sheba to place with Upali might be a problem, or if upali goes in with the whole group there's a danger of too early impregnation of Sithami and(yes!) even Sundara... or maybe there's some other (EEP recommendation perhaps?)reason they are not doing any elephant breeding until next year.
Is sheba still managing to survive okay?
Birma has already been introduced to Upali in 2007 and he mated her - and a while later the keepers obviousley guessed that she might be pregnant and this thread was started.
Now we know that she wasn`t, and I think her chances to have a healthy calf are very dire now. She is now 24, that would make her 26 at birth if Upali mated her sucessfully now. Which is already unlikely because many primiparous females in her age never get pregnant despite mating with a fertile bull. And the few who become pregnant have a abysmal stillbirth rate (more then 50 %!!). That can be life-threatening for the mother, too.
Given these risks, I prefer to put her health first and not to try again to breed from her.
Now we know that she wasn`t, and I think her chances to have a healthy calf are very dire now. She is now 24, that would make her 26 at birth if Upali mated her sucessfully now. Which is already unlikely because many primiparous females in her age never get pregnant despite mating with a fertile bull. And the few who become pregnant have a abysmal stillbirth rate (more then 50 %!!). That can be life-threatening for the mother, too.
Given these risks, I prefer to put her health first and not to try again to breed from her.
Ah, but remember one of her companions at Chester is 'Jangoli'- a traditional 'zoo' elephant cow which came from Flamingo Park as a fully mature unbred female- I believe she was already older than 'Birma' is now. She did have a stillbirth first but has since had two successful calves (unfortunately both male) which proves the risks are sometimes worth taking....
dragon(ele)nerd
Well-Known Member
Yeah i was wrong i had forgetten that Chang had already left,
But It's true the older the female is and if it is their first calf it is highly likely that the cow will deliver a stillbirth.
Of all first time mother, one third, experince stillbirth.
There is a chance since the age difference is high ( with the young bull not young cow, old bull) the calf might grow too large. And when in labour it might be too much.
But It's true the older the female is and if it is their first calf it is highly likely that the cow will deliver a stillbirth.
Of all first time mother, one third, experince stillbirth.
There is a chance since the age difference is high ( with the young bull not young cow, old bull) the calf might grow too large. And when in labour it might be too much.
Yep, Jangolie was even older then Birma is now when she concieved for the first time, and she was very, VERY lucky to survive and have two healthy calves later. Look at the statistics, most females in her age which get pregnant for the first time are less lucky. Chester has enough breeding females (3 now and 4 in a few years) that I strongly believe it is not worth taking the risk. Her introduction to the Chester herd has been such a great sucess and she can live a good "elephant life" now after having been alone for so long. I am more than happy with that.
dragon(ele)nerd
Well-Known Member
I must agree, it's too much of a risk with Birma. But chester has already produced many elephant calves. I'm happy that the zoo has a future plan for breeding. On the topic of chester zoo elephants are Po Chin and Assam going to be used for breeding?
Whatever we think on this(Birma's age) according to Bongorob's update it seems they do definately plan to try and include her in the breeding programme next year. They've probably looked at Jangoli's success and thought it may be possible to repeat it. I do agree with Yassa rather that Jangoli was very lucky to survive giving birth for the first time at such a mature age.
Regarding Assam & Pochin in Belgium- I imagine any breeding plans for them will be some years off yet, they aren't really old enough.
Regarding Assam & Pochin in Belgium- I imagine any breeding plans for them will be some years off yet, they aren't really old enough.
Jangoli was born in 1968 and arrived at Chester in 1994 from Flamingo Land.
Her first baby was a male who was stillborn on 25th April 1998.
She went on to produce two more male calves, Po chin on 18th July 2000 and Tunga on 10th October 2004.
She would have been around 27 or 28 when she first conceived.
Sorry for taking so long to answer your question, I forgot all about it.
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dragon(ele)nerd
Well-Known Member
I think it will be a while until chester experinces another elephant baby boom.
Some cows are too old to concieve for the first time. Others like Jangolie are apparently too big for upali to cover. And the other future cows are too young. But then again sithami gave birth when she was only 7, sundara was very lucky, a miracle baby.
Some cows are too old to concieve for the first time. Others like Jangolie are apparently too big for upali to cover. And the other future cows are too young. But then again sithami gave birth when she was only 7, sundara was very lucky, a miracle baby.
flamingozoo
Member
Hi i was jangolis keeper at flamingo park from 1982 , she was born in 68' she was allways full of life and getting up to mischief , im goin to chester zoo this year to see her so if elephants never forget she will remember me lol
karoocheetah
Well-Known Member
Ah that's cool - you'll have to let us know if she remembers you?
