Edinburgh Zoo Edinburgh Zoo news 2012 #1

TARZAN said:
I think it would be prudent to remember that not everyone is so keen on zoos as us, things are financially tough here in the U.K.at the moment and I can appreciate any tax payer questioning the £43,000 cost of a welcoming party for the giant pandas, how many working hours for a nurse or a police officer would this amount pay for? Just another nasty piece of journalism?, well if that is the case Edinburgh certainly seams to get more than its fair share of that!, how come in recent times the likes of Chester, London or Jersey do not appear to get such a bad press?, is it not just another case of the truth hurting certain people and Edinburgh Zoo yet again being caught with its pants down?
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Have you actually read the article? According to it:

The Scottish government said Caps' take on the event was "nonsense" and that the money had been spent on staff costs, a grant to the Royal Zoological Society for the pandas' arrival event and the marketing of Sino-Scottish links in Scotland and China.

A spokesperson said the government had made a "small financial contribution towards the cost of the arrival event in recognition of the fact that the pandas are a symbol of the great and growing friendship between Scotland and China".
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It sometimes helps to go beyond the headlines a little. The hype and media coverage was massive and that doesn't happen by itself. Edinburgh's PR has been excellent over the last month or so with the arrival of the pandas and I am glad of that - clearly CAPS aren't and are sh*t stirring, using the easy target of government spending which will always get certain segments of the population irate. The Guardian have fallen in to their trap giving exactly the coverage that CAPS want, leading with:

Animal campaigners accuse Scottish government of spending £43,000 on bash for arrival of animals at Edinburgh zoo
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Plenty people won't read beyond this and will assume there was some kind of extravagant party, when, quite clearly, there wasn't any such thing.
 
Maguari said:
And the cost of the Olympics/Wayne Rooney's salary/the cost of the average Ferrari or three-bedroom suburban semi (or, say, CAPS' annual budget) would pay for hundreds of hours too - but it won't, because that isnt the NHS/Home Office's money. I'm afraid that's how the world works.

I think it's safe to assume the zoo have spent that money in order to generate interest and sponsorship to bring in more money in return. That's how a business works, and how a charity works. If they've judged wrongly in this case, I'm sure we'll find out in due course.
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No, the zoo have not spent the money on a party, the tax payers have, despite previous assurances from the government that they would not be financing the giant panda venture, the money would come from commercial sponsorship. I do understand that this party could have been used as a sprat to catch the mackerel exercise, remember the old saying"there is no such thing as a free dinner", and as you quite correctly state, time will tell if this is the case :)
 
Kifaru Bwana said:
If you are that worried then tax the rich .. (but then you just got the wrong government there)! :cool:

Can we get back on some real news now?!

Malayan tapir born!
Pygmy hippo born!

et cetera.
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Why change the subject to baby animals, the truth hurt perhaps?:rolleyes:
 
TARZAN said:
No, the zoo have not spent the money on a party, the tax payers have, despite previous assurances from the government that they would not be financing the giant panda venture, the money would come from commercial sponsorship. I do understand that this party could have been used as a sprat to catch the mackerel exercise, remember the old saying"there is no such thing as a free dinner", and as you quite correctly state, time will tell if this is the case :)
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What party? I cannot see anything that suggests that there was a party, much less that £43,000 was spent on it. There was an event which included marking the panda's arrival with bunting, pipers, people waving flags etc. All this gave good media coverage, for Edinburgh, for the zoo and for Scotland in general. The real value of the coverage would, I have no doubt, be much more than what was spent.

It's true, time will tell if the investment is worth it but Edinburgh need good publicity and CAPS, quite clearly, cynically want to turn that around and create some kind of public backlash by associating the zoo with negative publicity around extravagant public spending and you seem to have fallen for that.
 
TARZAN said:
Why change the subject to baby animals, the truth hurt perhaps?:rolleyes:
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No, it does not (and what is the truth here ... after all?).

You obviously cannot grasp where or what I am at, nor let the matter rest. We have exchanged opinions and everyone has had their say. So, it should be fine and that is the end of it.

This being a general news thread on Edinburgh Zoo, I have suggested twice gently to keep it that way.
 
Kifaru Bwana said:
No, it does not (and what is the truth ... after all?).

You obviously cannot grasp where or what I am at, nor let the matter rest. We have exchanged opinions and everyone has had their say. So, it should be fine and that is the end of it.

This being a general news thread on Edinburgh Zoo, I have suggested twice gently to keep it that way.
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With all respect Kifaru Bwana, this isn't off-topic as it's a news story about Edinburgh Zoo and is entirely relevant, particularly given the way the zoo has been portrayed in the press over the past months. Anyway, I have said everything I have to say on the subject.
 
Shirokuma said:
What party? I cannot see anything that suggests that there was a party, much less that £43,000 was spent on it. There was an event which included marking the panda's arrival with bunting, pipers, people waving flags etc. All this gave good media coverage, for Edinburgh, for the zoo and for Scotland in general. The real value of the coverage would, I have no doubt, be much more than what was spent.

It's true, time will tell if the investment is worth it but Edinburgh need good publicity and CAPS, quite clearly, cynically want to turn that around and create some kind of public backlash by associating the zoo with negative publicity around extravagant public spending and you seem to have fallen for that.
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I'm sorry, no I have not fallen for what C.A.P.S. have stated,as far as the well being of animals is concerned I am always interested in peoples views, I consider their opinion and draw my own conclusions from that, even though my opinion may not be to the liking of everyone.I recall a keeper once telling me at a major zoo that Born Free, CAPS etc. could be a good thing as they keep the zoos on their toes,and if Edinburgh do not want any more bad publicity for their zoo, this can be easily remedied, don't give them any ammunition, then they won't have anything to complain about.
 
Maguari said:
And the cost of the Olympics/Wayne Rooney's salary/the cost of the average Ferrari or three-bedroom suburban semi (or, say, CAPS' annual budget) would pay for hundreds of hours too
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Slightly off-thread (apologies) but I was astounded (and delighted if I'm honest) to discover that CAPS annual income is less than £100,000 i.e. they really don't have much support/benefactors. It would seem that they're capable of making noise, seemingly aided by anti-Edinburgh factions of the Scottish Press, completely disproportionate to their size i.e. they know how to play to the media (possibly better than some zoos).
 
TARZAN said:
I recall a keeper once telling me at a major zoo that Born Free, CAPS etc. could be a good thing as they keep the zoos on their toes,and if Edinburgh do not want any more bad publicity for their zoo, this can be easily remedied, don't give them any ammunition, then they won't have anything to complain about.
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I have heard the same thing suggested several times. One may not agree with their extreme 'anti-zoos' stance but they do effect a form of 'quality control' as most zoos are eager to avoid being the focus of their attention. It is one of the reasons there is so much 'paranoia' among zoo managements generally in divulging even seemingly trivial information to people they do not know- in case it reaches a hostile press or the anti-zoo organisations. Although it can sometimes seem annoying or ridiculous to interested people who support zoos, I can understand the zoos' point here.

Regarding the 'welcome' for the Pandas, with such high profile arrivals and the 'political' connection, I think it was bound to happen and is no doubt aimed at raising the whole profile of the Zoo & city for the coming year(s). I can also understand their aim in this. Hopefully the resulting upsurge in visitors will allow them to pay for at least some of the other improvements which are needed elsewhere in the zoo.
 
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TARZAN said:
No, the zoo have not spent the money on a party, the tax payers have, despite previous assurances from the government that they would not be financing the giant panda venture.
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...but, as far as I can see, there was no huge 'party' of the type that CAPs - and Tarzan here - imply. instead, the money has been spent on a variety of events connected with the arrival of the pandas. From a zoo point of view, the publicity that has been generated has been simply extraordinary (compare this to the rather lacklustre response when London lost received a new panda in the 1990s); from a national perspective, this spending is just tiny, and if it helps to grease the wheels of Sino-Chinese trade, then all the better - the Scottish government should be applauded for being so open to dialogue with the Chinese. Even a passing acquaintance with the way that the press works should steer us away from an image of £43,000 worth of champagne and canapes being scoffed by fat blokes in suits while the drills and sealion look on from their miserable* enclosures / exhibits...

* - even if those enclosures / exhibits have been deemed to be perfectly functional for many years until it was decided that they no longer were.
 
The male Hamlyn's arrived before Christmas and has been successfully introduced to one of the females. There are now two dwarf mongoose (male & female) currently serving their quarantine time in the enclosure next to the cassowary in the hippo house. Eve is the second calf for Ellen and Otto and has put on 1.5kg in the first week!
As regards the sea lion pool, Sofus is to move within the next couple of months to a zoo in Poland. It should be noted that the zoo licence requirements are set by DEFRA's Zoo Working Group (committes cost more money for some reason) which is made up of vets, high profile conservationists and people from the zoo world, including Edinburgh Zoo. It is ialso interesting to realise that, with some modifications, that enclosure has been home to seals or sealions for almost 99 years! The primary problem isn't so much with the design itself but the filtration system and salination equipment (not that it is currently salt water) and also not having facilities to seperate male frome female if required. Apparently to make the required alterations would cost way more than could be seen as being reasonable.
Nope, the cock o' the rock isn't on show yet. Anything could happen as regards going on show, but that is par for the course in the zoo world!
It was with great sadness that the keepers found the male tapir had died. Following a post mortem it looks as if it was very much a health problem that the keepers (or vets) could have done anything about.
Hopefully 2012 will be the begining of a succesful period for the zoo and society in general. The whole budget for the pandas has been based on having a break even year plus an extra 10% on last years visitor numbers. Basically getting back to 2008 numbers. Considering that the enclosure cost in the £250,000 mark (possibly one of the cheapest panda enclosures) and is unlikely to require air con or heating with Edinburgh's average temperature range being identical to their current home area in China. Potentially a huge win for Edinburgh. It does give the opportunity to highlight goral (and red panda and takin at HWP).
Any profits are to be used to improve the zoo's basic infrastructure initially. From there it will be possible to look at updating and improving a whole range of areas in the zoo, and staff at the zoo could submit a list that makes any that we come up with look really quite small. Staff at the zoo really are passionate about evrything there for animals and visitors alike!
 
Simon McGlary said:
The male Hamlyn's arrived before Christmas and has been successfully introduced to one of the females.
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Interesting - would he happen to be one of the recently departed Hamlyn's from Twycross?

Simon McGlary said:
that enclosure has been home to seals or sealions for almost 99 years!
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A real shame to see this history end.

Simon McGlary said:
It was with great sadness that the keepers found the male tapir had died. Following a post mortem it looks as if it was very much a health problem that the keepers (or vets) could have done anything about.
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Sad to hear this, too. At least he managed to sire one last calf :)
 
Simon, thanks for all the updates. Still wonder though where that male Hamlyn's came from. There is not heaps of choice there as the population is sadly ageing. Something needs to be done there a SC / EAZA level. :cool:

I agree that the panda policy at Edinburgh seems a sound one. Look forward to any future plans for renovations in due course.
 
sooty mangabey said:
...but, as far as I can see, there was no huge 'party' of the type that CAPs - and Tarzan here - imply. instead, the money has been spent on a variety of events connected with the arrival of the pandas. From a zoo point of view, the publicity that has been generated has been simply extraordinary (compare this to the rather lacklustre response when London lost received a new panda in the 1990s); from a national perspective, this spending is just tiny, and if it helps to grease the wheels of Sino-Chinese trade, then all the better - the Scottish government should be applauded for being so open to dialogue with the Chinese. Even a passing acquaintance with the way that the press works should steer us away from an image of £43,000 worth of champagne and canapes being scoffed by fat blokes in suits while the drills and sealion look on from their miserable* enclosures / exhibits...

* - even if those enclosures / exhibits have been deemed to be perfectly functional for many years until it was decided that they no longer were.
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I agree that the recent arrival of the Edinburgh pair of giant pandas has attracted more national attention than what the arrival of Bao Bao and Ming Ming did at Regent's Park in the early nineties,possibly this was because giant pandas were not such a novelty at London as they held them there for many years previous,also their arrival could at the time have been overshadowed by the sad state the zoo was in at this time.This, from what I can remember, was certainly not the case when Chia Chia and Ching Ching arrived in the early seventies, there was a lot of media attention on their arrival ranging from Lesley Judd the Blue Peter presenter helping to furnish their enclosure to Edward Heath the prime minister being interviewed, I recall him stating that before he left for a state visit to China he was instructed"And don't forget the pandas Ted" as president Nixon had been given a gift of two giant pandas on his recent visit to China, and remember, these giant pandas were a true gift to Great Britain, they didn't come with big rent books in their suitcases:)
 
Simon McGlary said:
The male Hamlyn's arrived before Christmas and has been successfully introduced to one of the females.
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1. I believe the two females are a mother & daughter(according to the website details). Is there a homebred younger male, born in 2010 still at the zoo, or has he left leaving just the new male & two females now?

2. Can you find out/do you know the new male's origin? Or his name would help identify him..
 
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Kifaru Bwana said:
Still wonder though where that male Hamlyn's came from. There is not heaps of choice there as the population is sadly ageing. Something needs to be done there a SC / EAZA level. :cool:
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I think its less an ageing population, more a rapidly dwindling one, but whichever way its going, I think this species is reaching crisis point in zoos now. :(
 
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