Lowland gorillas in Europe 2012

[Pertinax]

{Note from mods - this thread continues from here: Lowland gorillas in Europe 2011}



Twycross 'Okanda'

Twycross- Baby male 'Okanda' (Oumbie x Ozala) who was removed from his mother due to malnutrition, has now been sent to the Stuttgart nursery for handrearing.

'Intense efforts' to reintroduce him to his parents have failed though no further details are given.

 

[docend24]

Not good news but at least a good timing as Tano gets a buddy.

 

[Willard]

I agree with docend24. Meanwhile, Tano has got his second tooth. Here Gorillakinder - Wilhelma is a short video of him exploring his mouth with his fingers

 

[Pertinax]

Not good news but at least a good timing as Tano gets a buddy.

Do you know if at Stuttgart, the nursery babies nowadays have any contact with their own Gorillas? I heard at one time they were going to redesign the nursery area to allow this, to help the handreared babies' socialisation process- but I don't know if it happened though?

 

[Yassa]

Stuttgart is currently building a new great ape house (scheduled to open later this year). In the new house, the nursery will be next to the adult gorilla`s enclosure so that the little ones can see and ovserve the group.
However, it seems that they are right now working to really integrate the older infant "Claudia" into the family group, and one article says that baby Tano had already been taken in the current ape house to see the group. However, I`m not sure if there will ever be any possibilities for direct interactions of Tano and Okala with the group, which I think would be necessary to really learn something.

The former (?) concept of the Stuttgart nursery - raising the infants with each other until they`re 3 to 4 years old and then send the males to all-male-groups - produces almost always non-breeding males, so I hope very, very much that they really do something different with Tano and Okala, otherwise their fate is sealed.

 

[Pertinax]

The former (?) concept of the Stuttgart nursery - raising the infants with each other until they`re 3 to 4 years old and then send the males to all-male-groups - produces almost always non-breeding males, so I hope very, very much that they really do something different with Tano and Okala, otherwise their fate is sealed.

Thanks Yassa. I agree the current(or past)arrangement has produced nearly 100% non-breeder males. I commented in the Twycross thread that if the situation is still the same, Okanda will join a long list of 'useless' humanised males- I hope this can be avoided obviously with both these latest recruits.

 

[Willard]

The Stuttgart Zoo press release 18.01.2012 - Gorilla Okanda - Wilhelma (in German) says, the keepers provided daily visits by Okanda to his mother while he was being hand-reared, but the rather instable group (Oumbie, Ozala and Asante) reacted increasingly nervously so there seemed to be no chance for a successful reintroduction. That's why the EEP recommended his transfer to Stuttgart nursery. It also says, Okanda has adjusted surprisingly well to his new home and will be allowed to meet Tano without spending time in quarantine, as he had already been examined before leaving Twycross.

I do wonder what can be done to avoid Tano and Okanda joining "a long list of 'useless' humanised males", as Pertinax said. There obviously was no alternative to take them from their families, although there might be an alternative to former Stuttgart policy in how to treat their orphans. But "direct interactions" (Yassa) only make sense after a step by step introduction (through bars) to their new families. It seems this process has been started already for Tano, and will be initiated for Okanda too. What else can be done really to make sure they will be true gorillas one day, and will be able to overcome their hand-raising handicap? What policy exactly would you suggest to improve the "output" of the nursery in order to fully integrate their residents into a new group one day?

 

[Pertinax]

What policy exactly would you suggest to improve the "output" of the nursery in order to fully integrate their residents into a new group one day?

Sorry Willard that I edited your post on the Twycross thread, by mistake. Thanks for supplying this information from Stuttgart about Okanda, it gives a better idea of the problem they had trying to get him back in the group than Twycross's own version.

It says Okanda is the 60th baby(all apes or just Gorillas?) to pass through this nursery!! I think what needs to happen is for these babies to have continuous (24 hours a day) direct contact with their adult Gorilla group- though it need only be through mesh, not actually in with the animals. It sounds like that is the plan when the new Ape House + nursery is built at Stuttgart, but in the meantime these two latest babies may still lose out as a result, as I believe the shorter 'visits' system of taking them to meet the adults, still can't give the babies a proper chance for the full assimilation of gorilla behaviour.

Equally important, where these young handraised animals go next should be thought out very carefully. They currently make a point of absorbing young females into breeding groups when they are 3-5 years old, so they can learn mother-raising etc but, as Yassa pointed out above, young males at the same age usually go direct into male groups where they can remain for years on end, never seeing females, mating etc. Not surprising if on top of being humanised in the first place, they are then are 'ruined' for breeding!

Perhaps what the EEP should do is identify at least the most genetically important males that come into their nursery, and ensure they are allowed to grow up in social male/female groups in order for them to get proper social experience. One way would be for any group that takes a young handraised female from Stuttgart, takes a same-aged male 'companion' at the same time. I don't think a group would differentiate in its attitude towards the sexes at this early stage. The other handraised males, those obviously not needed for future breeding would still go straight into male groups permanently- which isn't ideal but perhaps the only realistic option.

 

[Willard]

Thank you, Pertinax, now I have a better understanding of the issue. I wonder though if young males can be as easily integrated in another family as females, i.e. if the silverback's approval depends on their sex. I've read that infanticide is quite common in mountain gorilla troops when a new silverback takes over, and obviously they don't care about the infant's sex. - Ooops, sorry, I've just read your posting again and saw you already pointed out that sex probably doesn't matter.

I have to admit that personally I'm not so much concerned about the genetic loss caused by males not allowed to breed - although this is presumably the top priority of the EEP - but of what's the best for an individual, i.e. what can be done to provide a "happy" life for him or her. From this point of view all-male troops are, at least temporarily, not unnatural. However most of such troops in zoos are permanent I guess. At least it should be avoided to "produce" unsocial gorillas that need to be kept solitary, but I think nobody wants that anyway.

But back to your recommendation, I don't see a reason why Stuttgart should not try to integrate at least some (the genetically most valuable) males into existing families, if that is possible. And why not allow them 24-7 direct contact from the beginning. But as they have quite some experience with orphans I guess they are not completely dumb and there must be a reason for their (previous) policy.

P.S. - Stuttgart says Okanda is the 60th gorilla in their care, not ape.

 

[docend24]

Well, I'm late to answer so I only confirm that Tano has been in contact with adult gorillas through bars or better say they has been in contact with him. Tano and Okanda were introduced, seem to be interested in each other, not being left alone together because of the age and thus size difference.

I guess the sooner introduction the better but sometimes health could intefere with the schedule - like Tano had thermoregulation problems initially although he was probably too small to begin any introduction anyway.

Well, I'm not sure if I get you right, Pertinax, you mean female and male from Stuttgart introduced to an already existing group as an infants? That may be risky and there would be a lack of suitable groups I'm afraid. That still won't help with room for males and those two would still have to be separated as they may consider themselves as siblings rather than partners.

 

[Yassa]

Well, I'm not sure if I get you right, Pertinax, you mean female and male from Stuttgart introduced to an already existing group as an infants? That may be risky and there would be a lack of suitable groups I'm afraid. That still won't help with room for males and those two would still have to be separated as they may consider themselves as siblings rather than partners.

I think you got it right, and I don`t think why it would be too risky. It`s done with female orphans all the time and it`s usually sucessful, for example in Zurich, Bristol, Cologne. Male infants have been sucessfully integrated into groups too, like in Rotterdam and Gaiapark (and both were just 2 years old). Silverbacks aren`t a danger for these orphans; they only get aggressive if the mother is present too. The males would have to leave after a couple of years, but at least then they would be socially competent and have a chance at breeding, other then being damned to a live in an all-male-group or worse - being given a shot at a family group just to loose the group a few years later.

However, this procedure (introducing infants into families when 3-4 years old) is extremely stressful for them since they are already way too humanized at that age. Ideally, I want to see them being introduced into groups with a female with good maternal instincts much earlier (6-12 months). If an adult female acts as surrogate, such a young infant can be integrated into a family group sucessfully and become a normal gorilla without any problems. This has been done a number of times with gorillas (Kolmarden, Heidelberg, La Valle des Singes) and now seems to be standard procedure with orang utans and bonobos. It has also been sucessfully done in the US in recent years. Stuttgart itself seems to try to integrate young orphan "Claudia" into their own family group right now, and she`s only about 2.

We`ll see what happens to Tano and Okala.

 

[Pertinax]

- but of what's the best for an individual, i.e. what can be done to provide a "happy" life for him or her. From this point of view all-male troops are, at least temporarily, not unnatural. However most of such troops in zoos are permanent I guess. At least it should be avoided to "produce" unsocial gorillas that need to be kept solitary, but I think nobody wants that anyway.

I don't see a reason why Stuttgart should not try to integrate at least some (the genetically most valuable) males into existing families, if that is possible. And why not allow them 24-7 direct contact from the beginning.

All male groups are not found in the wild and are not natural- they are a product/necessity of captivity. I am not sure how happy even younger male gorillas are living like this in a 'forced' and unnatural environment either. but there often is no option of housing them in company any other way. As adults it works too but sometimes they have to be split up as they won't tolerate each other anymore and then have to live solitary.

Stuttgart- presumably they have never had the facilities/enclosure design in the past to allow babies 24/7 contact with their group, something the new house will hopefully address.

 

[Pertinax]

Well, I'm not sure if I get you right, Pertinax, you mean female and male from Stuttgart introduced to an already existing group as an infants? That may be risky and there would be a lack of suitable groups I'm afraid. That still won't help with room for males and those two would still have to be separated as they may consider themselves as siblings rather than partners.

See what Yassa says above, about the introductions of young Gorillas to existing groups. Obviously only certain groups would be suitable for this, but there would be some. It would not necessarily be a permanent home for these young males either, they would leave at a later stage if required for breeding elsewhere, but that important earlier development period would have been spent in a male/female group.

Example case history; Lisbon male 'Nasibu' (a genetically important male) was born at Belfast in 1996 and handraised at Stuttgart. He was then sent direct to the small(1.3) male/female group at Kolmarden in Sweden. Despite being the only youngster in that group as he grew up, good socialisation with females since he was a juvenile has resulted(?) in him breeding at Lisbon (and possibly in Kolmarden before he left too).

An example of a place that could currently probably quite easily absorb a couple of young males into a male/female group is Cabarceno in Spain where they have a placid tolerant silverback and 3 females, (two of them very young) and seemingly, lots of space.

 

[Pertinax]

We`ll see what happens to Tano and Okala.

Do you know if they still have the older 'pair' of males (Monza & Upala) in the nursery or have they gone elsewhere?

 

[Pertinax]

The males would have to leave after a couple of years, but at least then they would be socially competent and have a chance at breeding,

I think its(often) possible to keep young males in a group with a Silverback a lot longer than is usual practise. Some males will allow a younger silverback to stay in the group too e.g. Bongo & Makula at Apenheul, Harry & Kesho at Dublin (before Kesho left). So a male joining a group between 2-4 years might be able to stay there up to 8 years or even more, -if conditions were stable.

 

[docend24]

I didn't know suitable groups for that are so common and that it was done successfully so many times. I agree with you that should be a more common practice and worth to at least try. I guess bad PR if it fails fatally, zoo attendance provided by hand-raised baby on display (aka Knutmania) may influence the decision over interest of the animal which I hope it is never the case.

 

[Yassa]

Monza and Upala have been put together with 2 young males from the Stuttgart family group (Lengai, *2003 and Meru, *2004) and all 4 were transferred to La Valle des Singes. There, they are to join former Jersey male Ya Kwanza and then all 5 will go to Amneville as all-male-group. Monza and Upala are both genetically "good" and its a pity that bad decisions are ensuring they will almost certainly never breed.

I don`t really know why this practice continued for so long - "we always did it like this" is probably a big part of it. The gorilla keepers at Stuttgart love caring for the babys, and as long as they are in Stuttgart, they are doing great, visitors love them, very very low mortality. The really hard part comes later and no one in Stuttgart sees that. Why the EEP allowed it to go on for so long - no idea.

 

[Pertinax]

all 4 were transferred to La Valle des Singes.

I don`t really know why this practice continued for so long - "we always did it like this" is probably a big part of it. The gorilla keepers at Stuttgart love caring for the babys, and as long as they are in Stuttgart, they are doing great, visitors love them, very very low mortality. The really hard part comes later and no one in Stuttgart sees that. Why the EEP allowed it to go on for so long - no idea.

Thanks Yassa-of course I knew that but had forgotten all about it. I think the four Stuttgart youngsters are already living with Ya Kwanza at La Vallee de Singes. But again, they will get absolutely no experience with females for years to come now.

I think you are very close to the mark in your summation of this situation. Particularly the part about the people at Stuttgart never seeing/knowing the longterm results of the current handraising regime-adult humanised males who throughout their lives remain 'fixed' on their keepers, not other Gorillas.

Another group which successfully integrated a very young h/r female from Stuttgart nursery (3 years old at the time) was Dublin with 'Mayani' -who now has a baby.

 

[Willard]

All male groups are not found in the wild and are not natural- they are a product/necessity of captivity. I am not sure how happy even younger male gorillas are living like this in a 'forced' and unnatural environment either. but there often is no option of housing them in company any other way.

All male groups are found in the wild, at least in mountain gorillas. (Juichi Yamagiwa: Intra- and Inter-group Interactions of an All-male Group of Virunga Mountain Gorillas (Gorilla gorilla beringei). In: Primates. Vol. 28 (1), January 1987) But of course every adult male will try to acquire females (solitary or from another group) or take over an existing family ASAP. An option that is not available for all-male groups in zoos obviously, and in this way they are indeed unnatural. But even in the wild not all silverbacks ever succeed in having a family of their own, and long periods of living solitary are very common. It's basic mathematics - if any group consists of (usually) more females than males, it implies there are necessarily solitary males or all-male groups.
Although AFAIK they have been less studied, I doubt social behavior of lowland gorillas essentially differs from the mountain gorillas'.

As adults it works too but sometimes they have to be split up as they won't tolerate each other anymore and then have to live solitary.

This has happened recently in Sosto Zoo, Hungary. Bubu and Djumbah have been fighting for dominance for some time now, resulting in mutual injuries. After their latest fight that caused a severe wound on Djumbah's neck the zoo decided to separate the two silverbacks, in both their indoor and outdoor enclosures.

 

[Yassa]

He he, I think Pertinax has mentioned this before, the all-male-group described in that article may be the only one ever observed in the wild and if I remember right it fell apart at one time.

If you read the field reports from the ongoing mountain gorilla research, almost all adult males that don`t have their own group or are still accepted by the dominant male of their birth group live solitary. It`s possible that all-male-groups form when the females all die or leave, but it`s rare, and these groups won`t last long as the mature males will leave. Just young males will stay with the leader (usually their father) until they`re adult.

What is often observed in the wild is family groups with more then one silverback, which gives the dominant male a better chance at defending his family against strange silverbacks. However, I don`t think that can be copied in captive situations since the silverbacks in zoos know that there is no pressure from intruders. All-male-groups in zoos work ok as long as there is only one silverback.