Zoo Barcelona Snowflake's descendants

[devilfish]

Since we've dabbled in gorilla genetics elsewhere on the forum, I was wondering whether Barcelona's alleged plans to selectively breed back a white gorilla (using Snowflake's descendants, who carry the genes) are going to be implemented at some point. Does anyone know if they still plan on doing that?

 

[kkkp]

Since we've dabbled in gorilla genetics elsewhere on the forum, I was wondering whether Barcelona's plans to selectively breed back a white gorilla (using Snowflake's descendants, who carry the genes) are going to be implemented at some point. Does anyone know if they still plan on doing that?[/QUOeek:

IMPOSSIBLE

 

[Pertinax]

Does anyone know if they still plan on doing that?

I have not heard of this. Some years ago, before he died, they kept one of his own daughters(Virunga- who has just died recently) in with him. Publicly it was stated it was due to 'housing difficulties' but I'm quite sure they were hoping for a white baby to carry on after he died. But they didn't breed together.

Snowflake had many offspring but not many survived- he has about 3 daughters still alive, and either 5 or 6 (4.2) grandchildren, several of which live in England (the males at Paignton, female in Bristol breeding group, + a Snowflake Daughter Kena, the mother of some of these, at Blackpool )

Presumably you would have to breed some of these together, or back to their mothers(?) to have any chance of another Snowflake. But I've never hear of any plan to deliberately try to do it.

 

[kkkp]

Am I incorect but was snowflake not an 'albino'?

 

[devilfish]

I have not heard of this.

Sorry, I really should have clarified that it wasn't from an official source at the zoo (my official post has been edited to include the word 'alleged'). I can't find the main source I read this from, but I remember finding out about it online a few years ago.

 

[devilfish]

Am I incorect but was snowflake not an 'albino'?

Presumably you would have to breed some of these together, or back to their mothers(?) to have any chance of another Snowflake.

Or with an aunt, or Bindung (if he's still around?)

That's right. This type of albinism is a recessive condition. That means that in anyone affected, there are two copies of the mutated gene - both of which are needed to exhibit albinism. Because Snowflake's offspring would get a gene from each parent, they'd have a normal copy of the gene (from mum), and a copy with the albino mutation from Snowflake. The normal copy would be 'dominant' and so you don't see any albinism. These gorillas are called 'carriers'. In order to get two albino copies of the gene in one gorilla, you'd need to breed two carriers, and there's a 25% chance that a single offspring would have two albino genes, but no normal ones - and would therefore look albino.

One of the challenges would be establishing which descendants are carriers. All of Snowflake's offspring would be, but each 'grandchild' only has a 50% chance of carrying the gene. Ethically, I wouldn't expect it to happen at least for a few more generations, but I was just wondering whether this prospect was on the cards.

The initial bulk breeding of white tigers started off with a lot of inbreeding, in a similar (but often more extreme) fashion.

Also, there's a decent family tree for Snowflake (a.k.a. Copito de Nieve/Floquet de Neu), and more information, on the Barcelona Zoo website:
The family

 

[Pertinax]

Or with an aunt, or Bindung (if he's still around?)

One of the challenges would be establishing which descendants are carriers. All of Snowflake's offspring would be, but each 'grandchild' only has a 50% chance of carrying the gene. Ethically, I wouldn't expect it to happen at least for a few more generations, but I was just wondering whether this prospect was on the cards.

Afaik 'Bindung' is still in Japan but was handraised so likely to be a non-breeder.

You will notice from the family tree that Snowflake fathered 21 offspring, but only 5 survived to maturity- that's a shocking record compared to most other zoos which have far lower mortality rates- the explanation about 'high mortality' in the wild is just a weak excuse.

I don't think any attempts will be made in the future to create another White Gorilla- at least outside of Barcelona, though they would no doubt like another. Outside of there I don't think the EEP would countenance/support matchings of relatives to this end. The three subadult male grandchildren which are at Paignton were handraised so are rather unlikely to be breeders anyway. Two female subadult grandchildren are in the UK too, Kera in the Bristol group and Mayani (who had a baby recently)at Dublin. But both are now likely to stay in those groups longterm. The Snowflake daughter 'Kena' at Blackpool has not had any more offspring so far, since coming to UK.

Of course Barcelona may try something in the future with the remaining descendants they still have- but that's the only way I can see it happening again.