Darling Downs Zoo Cubs not going to circus...

Quote from article "Spike and Spot are two of four lion cubs that were born in Darling Downs Zoo in October 2011. If the zoo had sent them to a circus, they would have spent the rest of their lives (potentially 20+ years) on the road in a small, barren enclosure with no opportunity to express their natural behaviour."

1/ 10- 14 is the lifespan of a lion in captivity l thought.
2/ Who is saying that a lion in a circus has a better life than a lion in a zoo. What do they base this opinion on? I have seen what appears to be an appearance of utter boredom on many many lions in captivity.
3/ is it perhaps cruel to keep a lion in the same 1000sqm2 or less for its whole life?
 
I wouldn't pay much attention to claims from animal lib groups....
 
Chlidonias said:
I wouldn't pay much attention to claims from animal lib groups....
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Why not? I think they serve the purpose of alerting us to situations that we probably would not have been aware of.

Maybe what you mean is that we should take their comments and views with a bucket of salt.

Are there travelling circuses in Australia that still use animals, much more, big cats as part of their shows? I thought most developed countries banned this practice years ago? I thought that circuses were headed towards a Cirque du Soleil model - I saw them a couple years ago and they did not have a single animal, not a even a domesticate dog or horse in sight.
 
nanoboy said:
Steve, I'll happily buy the lions off you. What's your price? :D
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Once again, Chlidonias has hit the nail on the head!!

Read the animal lib article carefully - the words they use are "may" and "could" and "rumoured".

We don't respond to claims by self-appointed, left-wing loony groups. Experience has shown that they will take your words and selectively edit them to produce the result that they want. This little beat up is a classic case of how they operate. They made the claims on an incestuous FB page, whipped up their supporters into a frenzy of self-righteousness and after a while, when the cubs hadn't gone anywhere, claimed credit for "saving" them from the circus.

Our cubs are still here and any decisions made about their future will, as always, be made with their best interests at heart - not as a result of any input from a group who also has the banning of zoos as part of their agenda.
 
Steve Robinson said:
Once again, Chlidonias has hit the nail on the head!!

Read the animal lib article carefully - the words they use are "may" and "could" and "rumoured".

We don't respond to claims by self-appointed, left-wing loony groups. Experience has shown that they will take your words and selectively edit them to produce the result that they want. This little beat up is a classic case of how they operate. They made the claims on an incestuous FB page, whipped up their supporters into a frenzy of self-righteousness and after a while, when the cubs hadn't gone anywhere, claimed credit for "saving" them from the circus.

Our cubs are still here and any decisions made about their future will, as always, be made with their best interests at heart - not as a result of any input from a group who also has the banning of zoos as part of their agenda.
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So, just to be sure I understand you, I can't have an encounter with the cubs, and I will not be able to buy the cubs off you? ;)
 
nanoboy said:
Why not? I think they serve the purpose of alerting us to situations that we probably would not have been aware of.

Maybe what you mean is that we should take their comments and views with a bucket of salt.

Are there travelling circuses in Australia that still use animals, much more, big cats as part of their shows? I thought most developed countries banned this practice years ago? I thought that circuses were headed towards a Cirque du Soleil model - I saw them a couple years ago and they did not have a single animal, not a even a domesticate dog or horse in sight.
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Yes, there are still lions and primates in circus's in Australia. (Stardust/Lennon's).
And Steve, you haven't denied any rumours about the cubs originally going to this circus have you?
 
here are the two linked articles from the posts above to make it easier for people to compare. The first is from Animals Australia (the animal liberation piece linked to in the first post of this thread) beating their own drum with very definite wording such as "Animals Australia supporters played a critical role in helping to save these cubs" -- which should put up an immediate red flag! The second (and a third I've thrown in) are from actual media outlets (not protest group publications). Spot the differences ;)

(Disclaimer: I have no idea of the background to the story, but I am very well acquainted with how animal lib groups function in matters such as this)

Lion cubs Spike and Spot spared from circus cruelty! | Animals Australia
Thanks to everyone who supported Animals Australia’s campaign to save lion cubs Spike and Spot from life in a travelling circus. The planned transfer of the young animals from Darling Downs Zoo to the circus hasn't taken place and it seems the cubs are staying put for now.

We have received feedback that the owners of Darling Downs Zoo reconsidered their plans after pressure from the media, the Zoo and Aquarium Association and the thousands of emails from concerned members of the public. This is very good news for the cubs and we applaud Darling Downs Zoo for taking the community's views seriously.

Spike and Spot are two of four lion cubs that were born in Darling Downs Zoo in October 2011. If the zoo had sent them to a circus, they would have spent the rest of their lives (potentially 20+ years) on the road in a small, barren enclosure with no opportunity to express their natural behaviour.

The voices of Animals Australia supporters played a critical role in helping to save these cubs from the cruelty of circus life. Thank you! We will be keeping a close watch on these cubs to ensure this decision by Darling Downs Zoo is final.
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Cubs aren't off to join the circus: zoo owner
The Darling Downs Zoo has became the target of an international protest against a rumoured plan to sell two of its lion cubs to a travelling circus, but the owner has rejected the claim.

Stephanie Robinson said it was possible the cubs would be moved from the zoo, but that would be a decision for the zoo to make.

"We are not in the practice of selling animals. We do work with other organisations,'' she said.

The California-based website Care2.com has launched the online petition, which had attracted more than 1600 by 1pm today.

It states: "Spike and Spot, two lion cubs born in captivity at Darling Downs Zoo in Queensland, Australia, may soon be sold to an Australian travelling circus. The two young lions will spend the rest of their lives on the road in a small, barren enclosure with no opportunity whatsoever to express their natural behaviour.''

Mrs Robinson said animal liberation supporters had been in contact since the birth of the cubs - the third generation of lions raised at the zoo.

"Anywhere they [the cubs] go will be somewhere organised by us. Everything we do will be legal and in the best interests of the animal. When the time comes that they do go somewhere, we will let everyone know," she said.

The zoo is located midway between Toowoomba and Warwick, about two hours drive from the Brisbane central business district.
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Zoo denies cub sale claim | Toowoomba Pets | Animal and Dog News in Toowoomba | Toowoomba Chronicle
Darling Downs Zoo has rejected online claims it plans to sell two of its lion cubs to a circus.

Owner Stephanie Robinson said it was possible the cubs would be moved from the zoo, but that would be a decision for the zoo to make.

"We are not in the practice of selling animals," Mrs Robinson said.

"We do work with other organisations."

The cubs were born at the zoo and represent the third generation of lions raised by Mrs Robinson and her husband Steve.

Claims two of the three cubs currently at the zoo were to be sold to a circus were published on the California-based website Care2.com.

An online petition against the rumoured sale had today attracted more than 1400 supporters from around the world.

Mrs Robinson said animal liberation supporters had been in contact with the zoo since the cubs were born.

She said she and her husband were ignoring the rumours about their business.

"These are just people with nothing in their lives trying to cause us stress.

"Anywhere they (the cubs) go will be somewhere organised by us.

"Everything we do will be legal and in the best interests of the animal."

She said there were no plans to move the animals from the zoo at this stage.

"When the time comes that they do go somewhere, we will let everyone know."
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macaw11 said:
Yes, there are still lions and primates in circus's in Australia. (Stardust/Lennon's).
And Steve, you haven't denied any rumours about the cubs originally going to this circus have you?
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Hey Macaw11 or who ever you are?

How about you use your real name and perhaps even provide your address.

Before you make any more posts on here that are targeted at individual that you very obviously have an agenda towards.

It would seem to be fair as we have these details on Steve.

PS,

I would be willing to bet that a purchase you made or a item you ate, came from an animal who suffered far more than any lion ever would in a circus today.
 
I know Steve well enough to know that he wouldn't comprimise the wellbeing of the lion cubs . I know animal rights groups well enough to know that that they have an agenda that is anti any activity between humans and animals.
 
zooman said:
Hey Macaw11 or who ever you are?

How about you use your real name and perhaps even provide your address.

Before you make any more posts on here that are targeted at individual that you very obviously have an agenda towards.

It would seem to be fair as we have these details on Steve.
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you can see macaw11's only other post on the forum on this thread sort-of-about the birth of these cubs http://www.zoochat.com/24/qld-toddler-befriends-lion-cubs-244147/...hmmm, it seems that even then the mystery poster was referring to Steve selling the cubs to a circus....now I wonder what that could mean?
 
nanoboy said:
Maybe what you mean is that we should take their comments and views with a bucket of salt.
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True - my experience and my opinion of animal liberationists is they are very one minded - the mentality of ''our opinions are correct - its our way or the highway". I have witnessed (as im sure we all have at times) animal libs twisting/selecting/moulding information to better suite their cause. but i do not blame them - because of 1 word - PASSION. These people are passionate about what they believe, they are passionate about animals and want to do everything in their power to help them. This is all well and good, but they often refuse to see the 'other side', and often go about things the wrong way.

The people who work with these animals take these alligations hard (even if we appear to take it with a grain of salt) because they are just as passionate. We are the ones on 24hour call caring for these animals - we are the ones up all night waiting for new mums to deliver our next generations - we are the people working round the clock hand raising these animals - we are the people who dont just work with animals as a job, its a lifestyle - we are the people with more photos of these animals than we have of our own family... and your going to try and tell me we dont have the best interest of these animals at heart?!?!? :confused:
 
zooman said:
Hey Macaw11 or who ever you are?

How about you use your real name and perhaps even provide your address.

Before you make any more posts on here that are targeted at individual that you very obviously have an agenda towards.

It would seem to be fair as we have these details on Steve.

PS,

I would be willing to bet that a purchase you made or a item you ate, came from an animal who suffered far more than any lion ever would in a circus today.
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No need for me to provide you with my personal details...bit like pot calling the kettle black hey Zooman (or is that your birthname?)

I have no agenda on here against Steve, I've heard he's good bloke with a good zoo.

However, if you ask the right people about certain details in this story, you do find out the truth.

Oh, and I know where my food and purchases come from, I don't wear blinkers and I'm well educated on all aspects of animals used for food production.

I also am not an animal activist either. I love a good zoo and work in one too.
However, circus's are outdated and do nothing for conservation and education of exotic species. Most zoo people I know and work with 100% agree.
 
nanoboy said:
So, just to be sure I understand you, I can't have an encounter with the cubs, and I will not be able to buy the cubs off you? ;)
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You've just hit the nail on the head too!

Two nails for the price of none!

However, you can have an encounter with adult big cats or even Marmosets - without stretching your post-Valentine's Day budget too far!
 
macaw11 said:
I also am not an animal activist either. I love a good zoo and work in one too.
However, circus's are outdated and do nothing for conservation and education of exotic species. Most zoo people I know and work with 100% agree.
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Groups such as "animals Australia" have a very wide agenda and are far from trustworthy. Zoos are as much on their list to be banned as circuses, its just that they are not completely stupid and know which battles they can win and which will will damage their support. They work on picking of the things they think they can win one at a time and plan on working their way to zoo bans.

By attacking circuses with the claim that they
do nothing for conservation and education of exotic species
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you give support for for the banning of all zoo programs which are not for conservation of endangered species. Zoos are also for entertainment like circuses. As long as the animals are well cared for and looked after anyone who supports zoos should support circuses with animals.
 
Monty said:
Groups such as "animals Australia" have a very wide agenda and are far from trustworthy. Zoos are as much on their list to be banned as circuses, its just that they are not completely stupid and know which battles they can win and which will will damage their support. They work on picking of the things they think they can win one at a time and plan on working their way to zoo bans.

By attacking circuses with the claim that they you give support for for the banning of all zoo programs which are not for conservation of endangered species. Zoos are also for entertainment like circuses. As long as the animals are well cared for and looked after anyone who supports zoos should support circuses with animals.
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You're kidding right?

I don't care if some zoos are not part of conservation programmes or ZAA members.
As long as the animals are well cared for, receive enrichment and enclosures are of EAPA spacial requirements, then I have no problem with it. As I said before, I work in a large zoo which provides education and lets people enjoy animals without buying plane tickets to Africa, etc, to see them.

The fact that you can compare zoos with circus's is a joke.
Having animals like lions and primates (I use these animals as examples as they're the only exotics left in Aus circus's) travel long distances in the back of trucks and performing stupid tricks is outdated and pathetic.
Considering that lions are not too far off from being considered endangered in the wild, I find it quite insulting that you would think it's fine for them to jump through hoops and live in the back of semi trailers for most of the day. (And before you assume that I'm hopping on the animals lib bandwagon, I've done my research and spent time talking with circus people. I know how it goes).

I'm sure the animal libbers know that zoos are here to stay.
Circus's, however are obselete. Australia just needs to catch up with Greece, the UK, etc, and ban them.
 
The two circuses in Australia (Lennons and Stardust) which still have performing lions appear in the main to do sell-out business, which means a lot of people still want such acts.

A lot of people criticise these things without having ever seen one - they "just know" that it's all too terrible!

Despite not having been to a circus for many years, last year I checked out both these circuses and found that the lion acts were vastly different to the wild whip-cracking acts of old. Both were more like the tiger presentation at Dreamworld. There were definitely no whips or hoops of fire or anything of that type - more like a "love-in" between lionesses and trainer. While it is not the ideal life for big cats( is a zoo?), lions are rather lazy animals and all their needs seemed to be met.
 
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