Darling Downs Zoo Cubs not going to circus...

You're kidding right?

I don't care if some zoos are not part of conservation programmes or ZAA members.
As long as the animals are well cared for, receive enrichment and enclosures are of EAPA spacial requirements, then I have no problem with it. As I said before, I work in a large zoo which provides education and lets people enjoy animals without buying plane tickets to Africa, etc, to see them.
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Why can circuses not meet those requirements.

Weather or not lions are endangered makes no difference to weather it is suitable for them to jump through hoops. I went to the Lennon brother circus when it was near me and the lions looked far from neglected. I did not take photos as their were signs saying not to, but these are in the Zoochat gallery and are the same as what I saw.



As I said before as long as the animals are well cared for and treated well I will support circuses. You are fooling yourself thinking the same organisations who want to ban circuses don't think they can get zoos banned to. Just because a few other places have banned circuses does not mean we should to. I do not want Australia to be like Greece or the UK.
 
Sell out shows? Oh please. Look at the areas where circus's sell out. They are typically in low socio-economic areas.
Look at NSW for example. I don't men to get on my high horse, but you won't see one of these circus's in the Blue Mountains or areas like Mosman as residents demanded their councils ban them.

This debate could go on forever, but seeing as there are only 2 circus's left in Australia,then I think the public are doing a very good job making it obvious that they're unnecessary. It won't be too long before these are phased out too otherwise, if they were so popular, wouldn't every man and his dog with an exotic license start a circus too?

Circus's belong to a bygone era. It's time we focus on making zoos the best places for the animals we keep and for the public who visit them.
 
Councils (local government) fall over themselves sometimes to be politically correct. Not too long ago a council in Sydney's "classy" northern suburbs caused an uproar when they banned a circus because it had performing animals - they turned out to be poodles, terriers and ponies! Not a lion or monkey in sight. The local press had a field day pointing out that the ground the circus wanted to rent is used for dog shows and by the local pony club!

And don't think that Animal Lib. is only aiming at circuses; next up will be zoos (the stated aim of Zoocheck in the U.K.was the closure of all zoos.)
After that it will be your granny's pet budgie and your little brother's goldfish.......
 
Ara said:
And don't think that Animal Lib. is only aiming at circuses; next up will be zoos (the stated aim of Zoocheck in the U.K.was the closure of all zoos.)
After that it will be your granny's pet budgie and your little brother's goldfish.......
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And I was once told off by a member of PETA for looking at some birds through my binoculars, for intruding on their privacy.
 
Ara said:
And don't think that Animal Lib. is only aiming at circuses; next up will be zoos (the stated aim of Zoocheck in the U.K.was the closure of all zoos.)
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And they still do want to close all zoo's in the UK,and move all the animals into sanctuarys for them in the UK!!!!:o Always funny when they cannot see what they want to do is no different,to what zoo's are already doing:D
 
Lennon's and Stardust are both in Victoria at the moment - in the Melbourne suburbs. I saw them advertising on TV yesterday, and yes, they both have lions. I saw in one clip, a monkey riding a horse. What's the conservation value of that? Are we teaching the patrons to love and respect animals, or are we giving them a laugh at the animal's expense?

I am happy to agree with you that the animals are treated well and stimulated, but I am not entirely sure what is the purpose of having them perform, other than for human's amusement. At least Dreamworld's tiger show was all about illustrating how majestic a tiger was - its size, its ability to jump far, its ability to climb really high and quickly - and they kept telling you about the tiger's plight in the wild. Camels dressed up in costume, and monkeys riding horses? Come on guys.
 
nanoboy said:
Lennon's and Stardust are both in Victoria at the moment - in the Melbourne suburbs. I saw them advertising on TV yesterday, and yes, they both have lions. I saw in one clip, a monkey riding a horse. What's the conservation value of that? Are we teaching the patrons to love and respect animals, or are we giving them a laugh at the animal's expense?

I am happy to agree with you that the animals are treated well and stimulated, but I am not entirely sure what is the purpose of having them perform, other than for human's amusement. At least Dreamworld's tiger show was all about illustrating how majestic a tiger was - its size, its ability to jump far, its ability to climb really high and quickly - and they kept telling you about the tiger's plight in the wild. Camels dressed up in costume, and monkeys riding horses? Come on guys.
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At last. Someone who hits the nail on the head. Couldn't agree more Nano boy.
 
nanoboy said:
I saw in one clip, a monkey riding a horse. What's the conservation value of that?
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There is no conservation value in that - because it's a circus. It is not a zoo, but you are applying your criteria for evaluating zoos to something which is not a zoo. Circuses have a different focus, they don't make conservation claims; they make claims about entertainment and there is NOTHING wrong with that.

nanoboy said:
I am happy to agree with you that the animals are treated well and stimulated, but I am not entirely sure what is the purpose of having them perform, other than for human's amusement.
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The animals being treated well is the critical argument here - if they are not treated well then the circus is breaking the law. As for performing for human amusement - that's what circuses are all about, even those that have no animals.

The bottom line is - if you don't like circuses, don't go to them.

:p

Hix
 
I believe nanoboy's comments were more directed at those earlier posters implying circuses had conservation value, which they plainly don't, rather than him giving equal status to both zoos and circuses.
 
Bugger - my apologies to Nanoboy if I misinterpreted your comments. The limitations of cold hard text, and all that.

However, the essence of what I said still stands - circuses and zoos are two different species and need to be treated as such (notwithstanding animal welfare issues).

:p

Hix
 
Yup, Chlidonias, you are right. Hix, apology accepted, but your comments are still valid despite having no bearing on what I was trying to say. ;)

Ara made a comment earlier in the thread comparing the antics of the tigers at Dreamworld to a circus, so I was addressing that comment - which I think everyone seems to agree on.
 
Hix said:
The bottom line is - if you don't like circuses, don't go to them.

:p

Hix
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It's not the bottom line, people are entitled to an opinion, even to take action against something they disagree with, beyond simply not going watch it.
 
Hix said:
However, the essence of what I said still stands - circuses and zoos are two different species and need to be treated as such (notwithstanding animal welfare issues).


:p

Hix
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I agree they ARE different. Circuses are for entertainment and as such will not have my support (and never have done). Good zoos are (for me) educational and foster a love and respect for animals that seeing a monkey riding a horse or a big cat leaping through a hoop will never do.
 
Chlidonias said:
I wouldn't pay much attention to claims from animal lib groups....
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This. 1000 times over!

They'd have us not even own pets, and set all animals in Zoo free if they had their way.

They've ruined the pet industry in Victoria, where we breeders who are doing the right thing, can't even advertise our puppies/kittens for sale, until they are microchipped, which I would never do in a kitten until they are 12 weeks of age, when we get them desexed. Meanwhile, the Puppy Farms keep on keeping on. But this isn't really relevant to what we're talking about, so I shall stop.
 
I think this issue should be examined based on genuine animal welfare issues, not emotion. During my career i have worked with both zoo and circus animals and i can honestly say the negative comments portrayed about circuses are emotive and exagerated. Firstly, the routine change of environment for circus animals is extremely enriching, much more than feeder balls and bungee toys. Circuses by their nature move from town to town, mostly conducting small trips and playing for generally a week or two at a time. This routine transport becomes the norm for circus animals, unlike zoo animals that can undergo very stressful moving experiences. Macaw 11, you use the term "stupid tricks" which i find funny. do you think a circus elephant or lion standing on a pedestal and a zoo elephant or dremworld tiger on rock really see the difference?? And while a monkey riding on a pony is probably a bit tacky in these times, how much different is it to a person surfing on a dolphin or riding an elephant in a zoo?? Yes, zoos do educate people about animals but so do modern circuses in their own way. And tell me exactly how many exotic animals are released back into the wild that were bred in zoos? otherwise whats your argument for keeping animals based on "conservation" reasons?
 
Elephants will naturally do headstands as it is the easiest way for them to use their weight to split logs. If the living conditions in a circus are so horrible then why do circus elephants generally live longer than zoo elephants. Every week there is a new environment to explore.
 
Yep. Not a full one like you would see in circus but i have seen a number of different elephants place a log between their front legs and put most if not all of their weight on their front legs while strategically placing their tusks and the log just splits in half. granted most of the times i witnessed this were logging elephants or in zoos but i was fortunate enough to witness a huge wild bull doing this in sri lanka.
 
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