Sea lions are very expensive to keep - it's not just the cost of the pool, add on the regular expenditure on filtration, salt and all that fresh fish! Penguins or otters (or coatis and bushdogs) are much cheaper
Alan
Twycross Zoo Twycross Zoo news 2012 #2
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Sea lions are very expensive to keep - it's not just the cost of the pool, add on the regular expenditure on filtration, salt and all that fresh fish! Penguins or otters (or coatis and bushdogs) are much cheaper
Alan
On my last visit to the zoo in October, in my opinion the condition of the water wasn't what it should have been, I thought, however it was quite an attractive exhibit, but as you say, too small. Perhaps cost has something to do with them leaving the collection, it must be a lot cheaper to look after a few coatis than it is to tend to sea lions, it cannot be denied though that the sea lions will be a miss. A previous poster comments that it would be a better use of space to construct something new and impressive for monkeys, a valid point, but again it is going to cost a lot less to simply convert a redundant sea lion pool for coatis than it would be to build something new and impressive for primates, talking of which, I think anybody who is knowledgeable in this zoo's proposed future plans will be forgiven for having doubts about the proposed construction of the new carnivore enclosure, where is the proposed new chimp house?
Sea lions are very expensive to keep - it's not just the cost of the pool, add on the regular expenditure on filtration, salt and all that fresh fish! Penguins or otters (or coatis and bushdogs) are much cheaper
But plenty of other places manage to cover the expense and continue to display seals/sealions successfully. Is Twycross so poor now they can't manage that?
Coatis are a good active exhibit but they reduce any grass/vegetated exhibits they live in to building sites so the area becomes very ugly to the eye.
I am still not clear which is supposed to happen first- the new Asian Lion/Dhole areas, or the (proposed) Chimpanzee 'complex'. I have a feeling its still the Lions/dholes as this was publicised first though it seems to have slipped years behind what was originally planned.
I am not sure the Chimp complex has got beyond the 'talk' stages yet? Have any plans been submitted, or artists mock-ups put on show? That usually implies at least a solid intention.
Coatis need climbing space/equipment and decent indoor winter facilities....right? Well, what is the difference between these and some of the 'hardier' primates they already have? Why cannot this space be converted as an open top primate enclosure? It just seems ridiculous to me! Yes, bush dog/coati mix is great, but surely not while you still have primates in 1970's bird aviaries?
The last annual report, if memory serves, showed a falling visitor count and poorer financial results - i think they were in the red last year.
Kuna was supposed to house tigers, lions, hyena and dhole, so I am dubious as to exactly how big each enclosure was going to be - nothing grand for any of them thats for sure, especially as lions and tigers would need 2 enclosures each to separate males when required. Hopefully they'll go back to the drawing board and come up with something 21st century standard.
Im glad they're abandoning sealions and redeveloping the enclosure for a mixed specie exhibit, but ive not heard of coati and bushdog being housed together before, has it been done and dose it work? I would ahve though a young coati could eaily fall prey to a bushdog.
Looking at the current online zoo map, the new chimp complex is to be located on the site of the now demolished monkey house. Not a vast area for 2 or 3 chimp enclosures, so don't expect anything like budongo or dudley!
Waddi
Well-Known Member
I contacted Twycross asking about the Sealions and got just got this reply:
"Following a number of health checks over the course of this year, a series of serious health and age-related problems were uncovered with Xenon and Lesley. Unfortunately a decision was made to put Lesley to sleep, and after further efforts to improve Xenon’s health, a final decision was made to put him to sleep. It is a very sad time for everyone here at the zoo and would like to thank you all for your continued support."
"Following a number of health checks over the course of this year, a series of serious health and age-related problems were uncovered with Xenon and Lesley. Unfortunately a decision was made to put Lesley to sleep, and after further efforts to improve Xenon’s health, a final decision was made to put him to sleep. It is a very sad time for everyone here at the zoo and would like to thank you all for your continued support."
I may be wrong, i haven't studied the plans, but i wasn't expecting anything flash, just a series of adequate
howletts style open topped pens, with a bit of glass viewing & basic brick buildings.
Apart from London's new tiger exhibit& chester's lproposed islands one, i'm struggling to think of any multi-million lion or tiger enclosures in the UK, most of the more expensive ones seem to be for primates.
Just because it doesn't look 21st century to the visitor it doesn't make it worse for tha animals.
I'd rather see 4 species in enclosures suitable for thae animals than one aimed largely to impress the visitor at similar cost!
Wasn't really referring to 21st century standards with regards to tourist amenities, more animal husbandary. Animals require space to roam, even if they don't use much (like lions!). Pacing bears and cats are a testament to this. Dudley's chimp enclosure is impressive due to its size, and allows them space to escape each other and the public, and spend long periods if time foraging. If built, twycross can plant up and decorate their new chimp and tigers pens all they like, but there is no substitute for plenty of space.
Chimpanzees
I thought the idea was to build one big enclosure that would house all(or nearly all) of their chimps together in one big group. If not, I can't see much point in building any new chimp quarters, now all the chimps are(or soon will be) housed in adequate accomodation in the three groups they have now. A new complex would presumably make those three buildings redundant for Chimpanzees, or would it.? Or would it just house yet another smaller group of their Chimps?
I thought the idea was to build one big enclosure that would house all(or nearly all) of their chimps together in one big group. If not, I can't see much point in building any new chimp quarters, now all the chimps are(or soon will be) housed in adequate accomodation in the three groups they have now. A new complex would presumably make those three buildings redundant for Chimpanzees, or would it.? Or would it just house yet another smaller group of their Chimps?
Sorry i didnt think by 21st century you were referring to the size of the enclosures, howletts'/p lympne/marwell's tiger enclosures are very 1970s , with the odd update, but are perfectly adequate in size!
Something along those lines wouldn't cost the kind of money being spent at london or chester
Something along those lines wouldn't cost the kind of money being spent at london or chester
That was my assumption too, or something similar that wouldnt cost a fortune.
Thank you for this information, they have been put down, I naively thought they must have been re homed,I was wrong unfortunately.
zoogiraffe
Well-Known Member
I think they still hold the Saddle-billed Stork ESB as well,atleast they did in 2011 and they haven't had them for years either!
That arrangement would mean they would probably still keep them in several groups, if attempts to amalgamate them all together failed, so it could be a 'safeguard' design. I can't really see much advantage over the existing 'colonies' in that case.except they would be in a more modern-looking building. What would happen to all the current Chimp houses which are really only designed(if that's the word) for Apes? Bulldozer ?(he says hopefully...)
I don't much like the idea of 'looking down' on the Chimps either- IMO you don't get a proper perspective that way- ground level viewing is far more effective.
Sorry i thought waddi was talking about the carnivore enclosures!
Waddi
Well-Known Member
Sorry pertinax, i was talking about kuno.
I think that the new chimp complex will be very much like the monkeyworld chimp enclosures. but I can't remember we're I heard that.
but imho now that all the chimps are out of green mile and settled into mini groups in adequate housing, the orangs should get a new enclosure 1st. I'm actually a big fan of the dry moat and glass screen barrier system that twycross use, but would like to see them have a bigger enclosure with lots of climbing opportunities.
I think that the new chimp complex will be very much like the monkeyworld chimp enclosures. but I can't remember we're I heard that.
but imho now that all the chimps are out of green mile and settled into mini groups in adequate housing, the orangs should get a new enclosure 1st. I'm actually a big fan of the dry moat and glass screen barrier system that twycross use, but would like to see them have a bigger enclosure with lots of climbing opportunities.
I agree re: the orangs, & i dont think there's too much wrong with the ape enclosure design if only they were bigger & gave more climbing oppurtunities. Lets face it twycross don't have the funds for a budongo,ROTRA or gorilla kingdom.
In one of the Monkey World enclosures you are 'looking down' on the chimps but they spend such large amounts of time on the very large climbing structures that you are mainly looking right across at them.
Sorry, misunderstanding. Monkeyworld style enclosure for the Chimps sounds much better. I do agree that the Orangutans probably warrant a new enclosure first though.
I agree the dry moat and windows style does make for very good viewing- I've always found photography of Twycross apes the best anywhere in UK. Its the overall size, landscaping and interior design of those enclosures that are lacking.
Do you know if all the Chimps really have left the Green Mile now?