Twycross Zoo Twycross Zoo news 2012 #3

[mazfc]

I agree that giraffes are a big name species to loose, but I still think its for the best.

I'd have to disagree about the sealions. I'm not debating they were spectacular animals, but the exhibit was poor and their health poor also. The condition of their eyes were heartbreaking. I don't people will mind them not being there. I'm a regular visitor to twycross and often heard negative comments about the exhibit etc.

 

[gentle lemur]

Hmm . . . a tall empty building with a fair area of paddock space . . . with some renovations, a lot of landscaping, a bit of planting and plenty of mesh, you could have a nice exhibit for decent sized group of monkeys. Is Twycross ready for their first macaques or mangabeys?

Alan

 

[TARZAN]

That's the whole 'Raison'd'etre' of Twycross of course, that it grew willy-nilly from a collection of pet and humanised animals and wasn't started as a Conservationist's Dream or to be a major Zoological Park or anything else really. I think they are still showing the results of that background even today.

I doubt very much the previous directors when they moved into Norton Grange 50 years ago realised that the zoo they were about to create would years later be a major player in the U.K. zoo scene, how many other zoos opened about this time and are no longer here to tell the tale? The royalties received from the P.G. tips contract at the time obviously greatly assisted with the finances also becoming a registered charity in the early seventies, Miss Evans with her prudent business acumen with finances combined with Miss Badham's almost celebrity status, both being the perfect compliment to each other to guide this zoo successfully for 40 years. Miss Badham was also very good with the television appearances that she made, I can vividly remember her on Blue Peter and Animal Magic right back to the black and white era of television, in a modern day way I would certainly say Dr. Allison Cronin at Monkey World has inherited this crown. The younger members on zoo chat appear to have reservations about dressing young chimps in clothes to appear on television, quite right so, time has moved on, let's look forward to the future as well as, for people the wrong side of forty, to remember the past. The typical zoo visitor who greatly contributed to this zoo's large bank balance when the previous directors retired would be a bloke working in the car factory in the Midlands, not rich, but on a good wage, taking his wife and kids in the Morris Marina on a nice day during the kid's school holidays, paying reasonable prices at the door, free in those days for babes in arms, dinner in the old wooden cafe and the kids getting toys/gifts in the old gift shop, as well as seeing the famous P.G. Tips chimps, elephants, giraffes, lions, tigers, sea lions etc.. OK that was the past, what about the future? I seriously think that Twycross Zoo has to take a good look at itself, they were left the legacy 10 years ago of healthy attendance figures, VERY healthy bank balance and a loyal dedicated staff.

 

[johnstoni.]

Really good news about the giraffes. Its not as if they're a hard species to 'get back', should Twycross embark on that someday. Sea lions, possibly, though I'd be more surprised. I think its about management though, and clearly there are people at Twycross more interesting in wading birds and carnivores at the moment.

A lot of people on here were very critical, for a long time, of Twycross seemingly concentrating on non-primate exhibits while having a number of substandard enclosures for primates. I would have been annoyed if they'd spent funds turning bad giraffe and sea lion exhibits into mediocre ones while the ape accommodation is in its current form.

I take the point about hooves, its true that grass isn't really better for giraffes, it just looks nicer for the public. I'm not necessarily a fan of bland, sports field paddocks without any opportunity to browse. However where giraffe are found on grass its usually because they have more space, and space is certainly an improvement at Blair Drummond. I would suggest Port Lympne is an example of exemplary practice because their animals can browse naturally, to some extent Belfast is also a good example of this, even London by accident allows for limited expression of this behaviour in summer, and I wish more small zoos would create edible living 'barriers' where space is limited, to at least increase foraging time.

 

[Pertinax]

I take the point about hooves, its true that grass isn't really better for giraffes, it just looks nicer for the public. I'm not necessarily a fan of bland, sports field paddocks without any opportunity to browse. However where giraffe are found on grass its usually because they have more space, and space is certainly an improvement at Blair Drummond.

One factor worth remembering is that at some places at least that keep Giraffe in large paddocks, they are confined to yards during the worst winter months and in wet weather to prevent damage from slipping etc. I know Marwell do that. During those periods they are kept under a similar regime to how they live(d) at Twycross.

However it seems obvious Twycross now intend to go out of Giraffe permanently. I think its a sad loss. A key species for the Zoo and for all the visitors who make the pilgrimage from the surrounding areas. A new barn and more open paddock in one of their undeveloped fields might have been another option, but of course that would be more considerable cost for them.

Possibly the worst factor will be the continued presence of a large tall building which rather advertises itself as 'Giraffes used to live in here but now its been converted for....' It will be interesting to see just what they do with it in the future. I make no guesses.

 

[leiclad20]

The bottom line is last year twycross zoo was financially in the red, according to the annual report, with reduced revenue from gate takings and a fall in visitor numbers.

If it does not want to go the way of Cricket St Thomas and the RSCC and a host of other animal parks that have shut down in recent years, it needs to make drastic changes to stay afloat. Losing giraffes, lions and sea lions is part of this - if you cannot afford to keep them in enclosures appropriate for 2012, they have to go. From when I first visited in 2005, the no. of primate species has decreased also, with few new additions. And for a world primate centre, its ape enclosures have to be the worst and nearly every monkey is in some form of cage. Most wildlife collections offer walk thru lemur enclosures, while twycross's leaves theirs in cages still.

If Himalaya had not been built and bought in some prestige for the zoo, I suspect we would all be saying the same thing we are about marwell - why is the park stagnant, why has there been no significant redevelopment, is the park going to shut down etc etc.

Twycross probably needs to contract a little before it grows again. Losing species it cannot accomodate appropriately, or are too expensive, is the first step. It has built himalaya, the elephant area was aesthetically improved, it is replacing the owl and penguin avaries and bought in 2 new amazon species. The new tiger/lion/hyena and dhole is the next step, along with a large new chimp complex. Once these have been completed, the former enclosures can be used to give their exhisting monkeys more room and may allow the cages to be demolished. These exhibits will hopefully bring in more visitors and more gate revenue, which will in turn facilitate expansion - possible into the unused fields, but i doubt this will happen until the existing site is redeveloped in time.

In a few years, twycross should have large, modern lion/tiger/dhole/hyena exhibits alongside elephants (forming an India/Sri lanka exhibit), a large chimp exhibit, himalaya, and monkeys in large enclosures, a big penguin pool adjacent to modern small animal exhibits with few - if any - cages. This should put twycross on par with other zoos and draw visitors in for years to come.

 

[TARZAN]

The bottom line is last year twycross zoo was financially in the red, according to the annual report, with reduced revenue from gate takings and a fall in visitor numbers.

If it does not want to go the way of Cricket St Thomas and the RSCC and a host of other animal parks that have shut down in recent years, it needs to make drastic changes to stay afloat. Losing giraffes, lions and sea lions is part of this - if you cannot afford to keep them in enclosures appropriate for 2012, they have to go. From when I first visited in 2005, the no. of primate species has decreased also, with few new additions. And for a world primate centre, its ape enclosures have to be the worst and nearly every monkey is in some form of cage. Most wildlife collections offer walk thru lemur enclosures, while twycross's leaves theirs in cages still.

If Himalaya had not been built and bought in some prestige for the zoo, I suspect we would all be saying the same thing we are about marwell - why is the park stagnant, why has there been no significant redevelopment, is the park going to shut down etc etc.

Twycross probably needs to contract a little before it grows again. Losing species it cannot accomodate appropriately, or are too expensive, is the first step. It has built himalaya, the elephant area was aesthetically improved, it is replacing the owl and penguin avaries and bought in 2 new amazon species. The new tiger/lion/hyena and dhole is the next step, along with a large new chimp complex. Once these have been completed, the former enclosures can be used to give their exhisting monkeys more room and may allow the cages to be demolished. These exhibits will hopefully bring in more visitors and more gate revenue, which will in turn facilitate expansion - possible into the unused fields, but i doubt this will happen until the existing site is redeveloped in time.

In a few years, twycross should have large, modern lion/tiger/dhole/hyena exhibits alongside elephants (forming an India/Sri lanka exhibit), a large chimp exhibit, himalaya, and monkeys in large enclosures, a big penguin pool adjacent to modern small animal exhibits with few - if any - cages. This should put twycross on par with other zoos and draw visitors in for years to come.

I agree with what you say, I would sincerely like to see the proposed new carnivore exhibit along with the new chimp facility, what concerns me is this zoo's current financial state, it is not in good shape, god forbid they might not be able to keep going long enough to see these new attractions coming to fruition, you have stated that visitor numbers have fallen, I suggest that they might even fall lower when word gets about the Midlands that popular animals are no longer at the zoo, I apologise if I keep talking about money when discussing Twycross, this is a zoo forum where we should be discussing the latest new exhibits and animals at this zoo, as we do about other well known collections, but without healthy finances you are just building on sand, I am personally now very concerned about this zoo, very sad, very sad indeed.

 

[TARZAN]

One factor worth remembering is that at some places at least that keep Giraffe in large paddocks, they are confined to yards during the worst winter months and in wet weather to prevent damage from slipping etc. I know Marwell do that. During those periods they are kept under a similar regime to how they live(d) at Twycross.

However it seems obvious Twycross now intend to go out of Giraffe permanently. I think its a sad loss. A key species for the Zoo and for all the visitors who make the pilgrimage from the surrounding areas. A new barn and more open paddock in one of their undeveloped fields might have been another option, but of course that would be more considerable cost for them.

Possibly the worst factor will be the continued presence of a large tall building which rather advertises itself as 'Giraffes used to live in here but now its been converted for....' It will be interesting to see just what they do with it in the future. I make no guesses.

I Like the term,"pilgrimage"!, as for what to do with the giraffe house in the future, given its age and not being a very attractive building, perhaps demolition may be the best option, as you say it will just stand there in the future reminding the visitors of the time when Twycross had giraffes, if it is not demolished I wonder what they might house in it?

 

[Pertinax]

The more I think about it, the more I think losing the Giraffes represents a potentially serious loss for them. One of the 'ABC' animals that general visitors, who are, after all, their bread and butter financially, come to see. With (currently) no Lions, Tigers, Sealions or Zebras in the Zoo, they could be regarded as rather lacking in that direction.

I am pretty sure most visitors would far rather see Giraffes and some of these other 'key' species than experience a surfeit of Monkeys and Apes and smaller mammals and birds, all of which are mainly lost on them after just a few species have been seen.

I suppose they could bring back Giraffes in a new enclosure with the cheaper 'agricultural' type indoor housing as I suggested above, but at a later date. However, given their current problems, its what they are exhibiting now which is likely to determine the visitor numbers and their future generally.

 

[johnstoni.]

I think a collection with elephants (and a 'breeding' group in a large, modern exhibit) can afford to lose other large species. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Blackpool particularly suffered when it stopped keeping giraffe and rhino, or Edinburgh its giraffes (and Edinburgh's elephants had long gone already). Giraffe 'houses' are popping up all over the country, they are no longer a species I'd only associate with the best-known zoos/safari parks. It really wouldn't be hard for the species to return to Twycross at a later date, as has happened at Blackpool.

The Himalaya /elephant walkway developments seemed to appeal to the large South Asian population in the zoo's catchment area, so I think its a wise move to plan to bring back Asiatic lions and tigers in the future. I think they will have a far greater pull and better context than giraffe.

The sea lions were a little different. How I would love for them to have been sent to Colchester several years ago (I don't know of any plans to do this, its just something I think would have been right in welfare terms). Given that they were rumoured to have both been euthanased due to health problems, are we really saying it would have been okay for the zoo to then replace them with any Pinniped species in that pool? And again, had funds then been spent on a decent exhibit (remember Chester, Edinburgh didn't even choose to upgrade their existing enclosures) for new individuals to replace the two that were put down, I think it would have made no financial sense when there is clearly primate housing requiring funds.

To me, the smart way is to build the large carnivore complex they have been advertising as in the pipeline, while embarking on upgrading the primate enclosures, starting with the removal of chimpanzees from the oldest cages.

 

[TARZAN]

I think a collection with elephants (and a 'breeding' group in a large, modern exhibit) can afford to lose other large species. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Blackpool particularly suffered when it stopped keeping giraffe and rhino, or Edinburgh its giraffes (and Edinburgh's elephants had long gone already). Giraffe 'houses' are popping up all over the country, they are no longer a species I'd only associate with the best-known zoos/safari parks. It really wouldn't be hard for the species to return to Twycross at a later date, as has happened at Blackpool.

The Himalaya /elephant walkway developments seemed to appeal to the large South Asian population in the zoo's catchment area, so I think its a wise move to plan to bring back Asiatic lions and tigers in the future. I think they will have a far greater pull and better context than giraffe.

No I don't suppose the attendance figures suffered much when Blackpool discontinued keeping rhino and giraffe in the large mammal house which is now exclusively occupied by the three Asian elephant, however Blackpool would still have had plenty of the ABC zoo animals, eg, lion, tiger, zebra, kangaroo etc. to keep the type of Blackpool audience satisfied, as for Edinburgh, I certainly agreed with their decision in 1988 to send their solitary African elephant back to Whipsnade, but I certainly do miss the giraffes at this zoo, also the bactrian camels for that matter. A friend of mine recently took his family to Edinburgh to see the giant pandas, a good job he mentioned his intending visit to me prior as he was unaware that you had to pre book to see them. His comment to me on his return was that it was fantastic to see the giant pandas, also the chimps in their first class house, the rest he found disappointing, no penguin parade at the time due to refurbishments,also the lack of ABC animals which they had expected to see, his children in appreciation of me informing them that they had to pre book the pandas, fetched me back a stick of black and white panda rock, made a real pig of myself, scoffed the lot myself

 

[Shorts]

The more I think about it, the more I think losing the Giraffes represents a potentially serious loss for them. One of the 'ABC' animals that general visitors, who are, after all, their bread and butter financially, come to see. With (currently) no Lions, Tigers, Sealions or Zebras in the Zoo, they could be regarded as rather lacking in that direction.

I am pretty sure most visitors would far rather see Giraffes and some of these other 'key' species than experience a surfeit of Monkeys and Apes and smaller mammals and birds, all of which are mainly lost on them after just a few species have been seen.

I suppose they could bring back Giraffes in a new enclosure with the cheaper 'agricultural' type indoor housing as I suggested above, but at a later date. However, given their current problems, its what they are exhibiting now which is likely to determine the visitor numbers and their future generally.

True that. I'd been thinking about my post on this subject on the journey into work this morning and I was sitting down to type, during my lunch break, when I realised your post perfectly summed up most of what I was going to say.

The only thing I'd possibly add is to wonder whether the decision was part financial based (to reduce feed, heating for the coming winter and possibly staff costs).

I'll reserve my final opinion for six or twelve months hence when we see how far the current rennovations and developments progress and how visitor numbers hold up. Twycross is lucky in that there's no major zoo competitors serving most of it's "Joe Public" catchment area but I have concerns about how high visitor numbers have been, in light of the appalling (weatherwise and Olympics distraction) summer and the fact we're in the middle of a recesssion, and (as you rightly point out) how they will be in the future given the lack of ABC animals. Fingers crossed that a functional butterfly emerges from the chrysalis.

The new accounts (to December 2011) should be accessible soon and will make some interesting reading.

 

[Pertinax]

To me, the smart way is to build the large carnivore complex they have been advertising as in the pipeline, while embarking on upgrading the primate enclosures, starting with the removal of chimpanzees from the oldest cages.

I guess Giraffe could certainly reppear at some stage in the future. I suppose its also true to say that visitors do not consciously curtail their visits to a zoo because a certain (larger) animal species is no longer present, but there must come a point if enough species disappear, attraction wanes and they perhaps try somewhere else(in this case perhaps Dudley or West Midlands though for people in Leicestershire its a lot further to go)

I certainly wouldn't advocate keeping Sealions(or any species) in less than suitable conditions, just to keep them in the collection. What I was trying to point out was that for whatever reason,- even if it was a good decision for the species concerned- the zoo now lack this(or these) species and might that work against them longterm?

Most (but apparently not all) of the Chimpanzees have now left the dreadful 'Green Mile' cages and have been re-assembled in (I think) three current larger groupings, or that is the intention. The next progression would be the integration of all/nearly all of them into one bigger/new complex which apparently is the plan. However now that they have made the initial moves of Chimps from those old cages(which I think was finally done as the result of pressure from the Zoo Licensing authorities, coupled with their own natural desire to improve things) there is a breathing space for them not to go any further with this until they can afford to build it. I still don't know if this project is just at the planning stage or if so, when it might become a reality. Will it now experience the same long (several years) delays as the new (planned) Carnivore enclosures seem to have done? Presumably these (unbuilt) Carnivore enclosures will still happen first?

 

[Shorts]

The sea lions were a little different. How I would love for them to have been sent to Colchester several years ago (I don't know of any plans to do this, its just something I think would have been right in welfare terms). Given that they were rumoured to have both been euthanased due to health problems, are we really saying it would have been okay for the zoo to then replace themwith any Pinniped species in that pool? And again, had funds then been spent on a decent exhibit (remember Chester, Edinburgh didn't even choose to upgrade their existing enclosures) for new individuals to replace the two that were put down, I think it would have made no financial sense when there is clearly primate housing requiring funds.

I think you'll struggle to find anyone who could sensibly argue against Twycross going out of Sea Lions or argue for their return. That said, to the general public it's still one less ABC to see which is likely (together with the lack of other ABC's) to reduce return visits.

To me, the smart way is to build the large carnivore complex they have been advertising as in the pipeline, while embarking on upgrading the primate enclosures, starting with the removal of chimpanzees from the oldest cages.

I'd agree this would be a smart move (carnivores and primates) in the short-term if they've got the funds. Correctly marketed I could see it working, the public like Lions, Tigers and Bears (oh my!).

 

[Shorts]

A friend of mine recently took his family to Edinburgh to see the giant pandas, a good job he mentioned his intending visit to me prior as he was unaware that you had to pre book to see them. His comment to me on his return was that it was fantastic to see the giant pandas, also the chimps in their first class house, the rest he found disappointing, no penguin parade at the time due to refurbishments,also the lack of ABC animals which they had expected to see, his children in appreciation of me informing them that they had to pre book the pandas, fetched me back a stick of black and white panda rock, made a real pig of myself, scoffed the lot myself

Having been there last week I can see how someone could come to that conclusion. Discussing the Zoo with a fellow traveller at the B & B* I stayed in, she said she'd took her nephews there and Blair Drummond and she thought the latter was better, "because it had all the big animals".

Personally, I disagree with the opinion (but I'm not the average zoo visitor) Edinburgh's a fantastic mix of interesting and obscure species pretty much all adequately housed (admitedly not in the prettiest enclosures sometimes) -my only grumble would be the lack of any significant number of Reptiles or Amphibians.

*Arden Country House, Linlithgow, guest house perfection, well worth the few extra pounds if you can afford them

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Personally, I disagree with the opinion (but I'm not the average zoo visitor) Edinburgh's a fantastic mix of interesting and obscure species pretty much all adequately housed (admitedly not in the prettiest enclosures sometimes) -my only grumble would be the lack of any significant number of Reptiles or Amphibians.

As I understand it, they actually have a fair-sized herp collection - it's just almost all offshow after the construction of Budongo replaced the old reptile house. But there's always hope for the future - they seem to be slotting in reptiles and amphibians wherever they can lately, with the addition of some species to Brilliant Birds, and the leopard gecko tank built into one wall of the African Hunting Dog enclosure.

 

[Pertinax]

she said she'd took her nephews there and Blair Drummond and she thought the latter was better, "because it had all the big animals".

That is exactly the mind set of most of the potential general zoo visiting public on whom the Zoos depend. Never mind that Edinburgh has- apart from the Pandas, a very eclectic collection nowadays- if those 'big animals' are missing, or sufficient of them lacking to be noticeable, then 'joe public' will sooner or later start to opt for an alternative collection where a bigger variety of ABC's can be seen.

This is what Noah's Ark in Somerset are openly trying to offer in competition with Bristol Zoo.

 

[Bele]

The new accounts (to December 2011) should be accessible soon and will make some interesting reading.

The 2011 Annual Report is available on the Zoo's web-site - do a search for Annual Report as it is not obviously there . The summary accounts show another loss and a further loan , though there have also been part loan repayments .

The Report states that their previous male giraffe had been castrated as they no longer intended to breed them . He died not long after , though apparently not related to the operation .

 

[Pertinax]

I think you'll struggle to find anyone who could sensibly argue against Twycross going out of Sea Lions or argue for their return. That said, to the general public it's still one less ABC to see which is likely (together with the lack of other ABC's) to reduce return visits.

That's what I was trying to say, that in the case of Sealions or Giraffes, even if its in the animals' best interests that they are discontinued and therefore a logical decision, it still means the zoo has lost powerful ABC -type species.

 

[pipaluk]

That's what I was trying to say, that in the case of Sealions or Giraffes, even if its in the animals' best interests that they are discontinued and therefore a logical decision, it still means the zoo has lost powerful ABC -type species.

I have to say this is my feeling and in terms of the future it worries me as to 'joe public' Twycross is in danger of becoming a ' monkeyworld with elephants' ! I think if, & thats a big if these losses can be offset with the return of lions & tigers( bears an even bigger plus!) then the future will look a whole lot brighter! If not i share the fears of many others! I hope i can continue to make my annual 'pilgrimage of 100 miles for many years to come though!