Port Lympne Wild Animal Park Asian Or African
- Thread starter 11jadaway
- Start date
Perfectly sensible question and not stupid.
There are only two or three African Elephants at Port Lympne. One adult bull(Kruger) and a couple of others- can't remember their details but someone will no doubt be able to do so.
They finally admitted defeat with keeping and trying to breed the Asians, after a number of stillbirths and calf deaths (at least one killed by the mother I think) The final straw for them was the loss of the one male calf 'Sayang' who survived to two years and then contracted the Elephant virus. After that they dispersed them and even posted an announcement giving their full reasons(as above) for making this decision.
I think it was then obvious to fill the enclosures with a few Afrians from the successful group at Howletts.
There is i think 2 or 3 females and the Adult bull Kruger and then two yunger bulls who came from howletts last year Janu and Juva i think are their names.
Does anybody know if their planning to breed them ?
GB
Does anybody know if their planning to breed them ?
GB
This dreadful Herpes virus, how tragic when well respected zoos go to the trouble and great expense of creating breeding groups and are successful in producing babies, only to loose them at such a young age, I think I am correct in stating that all the English zoos that have bred Asian elephants have fell victim to this. I also understand work is being carried out to develop a vaccine against this herpes virus at several of our respected zoological establishments, can't come soon enough, fingers crossed.
Very tragic disease indeed. I think the Asian Elephants and the Sumatran Rhinos(for very different reasons- females were both too old) are the only major species the Aspinall Parks have ever given up on.
Regarding Uk zoos that have lost calves from Herpes, not sure if the Tywcross calf 'Ganesh' died from that or from something else as he was rather sickly/undersized-looking through his unfortunately short life.
According the annual report, V.J. Ganesh died when having the symptoms of elephant herpes.
johnstoni.
Well-Known Member
Pugli kicked her first calf to death in 1984, I don't believe there were any killed by their mothers since then. I think the hand-raised calf born in the 90s (it died around 2 years old) was born to the same mother and was removed becuase she killed her first calf.
Port Lympne had many, many births, I think its possible they carried on as they did for so long because so few European zoos were attempting to breed this species in the 1980s, early 90s even. I often read references to a virus in IZN as each stillbirth was documented, but I'm not sure if there was anything they could do at that point? I'm assuming it was John Aspinall's dedication to his individual charges that meant he did not 'start over' with a new group of Asian elephants.
Strangely, Bindu (the surviving original bull - the other, 'Assam' died in the 90s during an operation on a tooth) has gone on to breed successfully at Cologne Zoo. None of the original females went on to breed in other collections, however the original four cows are now in their 40s.
Port Lympne had many, many births, I think its possible they carried on as they did for so long because so few European zoos were attempting to breed this species in the 1980s, early 90s even. I often read references to a virus in IZN as each stillbirth was documented, but I'm not sure if there was anything they could do at that point? I'm assuming it was John Aspinall's dedication to his individual charges that meant he did not 'start over' with a new group of Asian elephants.
Strangely, Bindu (the surviving original bull - the other, 'Assam' died in the 90s during an operation on a tooth) has gone on to breed successfully at Cologne Zoo. None of the original females went on to breed in other collections, however the original four cows are now in their 40s.
But they did bring in some new/younger females from Europe to add to the group, which probably represented an attempt to do this. Its got nothing to do with all the failed breeding but I've always thought the Port Lympne Elephant area is a very poor site for them, very exposed and it must be very cold in winter, while the indoor accomodation is/was, quite frankly, very poor. But I suppose you could say the same for the Rhinos and they have always done well.
Maybe the Black Rhino need other housing as the elephants.
Decades ago I dreamt about large indoor enclosures for their elephants, with heated bath facilities, etc. For me I always was surprised by an institute with two mature indian elephants. Although hardly visible.
Their housing of the woolly rhino was of a different order. Compared to these days.
johnstoni.
Well-Known Member
I agree totally, even now I'm uncomfortable seeing elephants kept on a slope, and an exposed one too. I wish they'd have used the bottom of the park for them, even if the paddocks sloped up the hill. Really, they need indoor enclosures attached to those barns, surely its only a matter of time before they have to start addressing this at both parks.
johnstoni.
Well-Known Member
For the original poster on this thread, here is the history of Asian elephants at Port Lympne (I'm relying on a couple of databases plus memory, please anyone correct any inaccuracies).
1977: The Asian elephants leave Howletts for Port Lympne
There were six (2.4) Asian elephants originally at Port Lympne. Pugli, Motki, Buria, Rani, Assam and Bindu arrived in 1977 from Howletts where they'd been kept since they'd arrived as infants, but from footage I've seen, not in the same house as the African elephants there, more like a wooden barn (they were still young animals when they left Howletts):
Echo of the Wild Part 4 of 6.mov - YouTube (06:44)
Of these six, one of the two bulls (Assam) was very special, as he was captive-bred at Hannover.
1984: First breeding ends in the calf being killed
- Assam and Pugli had mated successfully, and she gave birth in 1984, but killed the calf at birth.
1985
- Bindu, the other bull, killed a keeper.
1987: Second birth is the first of many stillborn calves
- Rani had a stillbirth sired by Bindu.
1988 - First new animals brought in since formation of group in 1971
- PL acquired Yasmin and Davida from Windsor Safari Park, leaving Windsor with a lone African who was shortly to be joined by around seven cull orphans to form a new herd. This brought the number at PL up to eight(2.6) animals. By this stage the new bull house had been built (for years they kept the entire group of 2.4, with just a one yard and paddock, in what is now the cow barn.
1990
- Yasmin gave birth to stillborn male twins, sired by Bindu.
1992
- A cow named Tanja arrived from Boras Zoo, making 2.7
1993: First adult death
- Davida dies two weeks after giving birth to a stillborn calf, leaving 2.6
1994: Loan and second adult death
- Rani and Buria were loaned to Chester in 1994, but didn't successfully mate there, temporarily reducing the herd to 2.4
- Assam died in 1994 during an anaesthetic, leaving the herd at 1.4
1996
- Assam sired a calf before his death, again with Pugli, but it was stillborn in 1996. The database only records Assam as having sired the two calves with Pugli.
- Rani and Buria returned from Chester in 1996, increasing the herd back to 1.6
1997: Arrival of new second bull
- Luka (M) arrived in 1997 from Belfast, having successfully sired a calf there, making 2.6.
1998: Second live birth, and hand-rearing attempt
- Pugli then mated with Bindu and produced Ashoka (M) in 1998 but, due to Pugli trampling her first calf, Ashoka was removed for hand-rearing, but died aged 11 months. Ashoka was kept near the adults and could often be seen wandering round the elephant area.
1999: Rotterdam animals arrive
- Three cows (Khaing Phyo Phyo, Yu Yu Yin, and Tin Tin Htoo) and their one year-old male calves (Maxim and Timber) arrived at PL from Rotterdam in 1999. This would have brought the numbers up to 11 adults and two calves (4.9)
2000: Gansendorf animals arrive
- In 2000 three cows were loaned from Gansendorf in Austria (La Petite, La Grande, and Momo), making 4.12. I can't actually believe this many elephants were housed at Port Lympne at one time?
- La Petite killed a keeper within three months of arriving.
2001: La Petite leaves
- In 2001, La Petite was sent to Ramat Gan zoo, where she remains, making 4.11
2002: Third live birth and first parent-reared calf/ others leaving PL
- Sittang (M) was born to Khaing Phyo Phyo in 2002, sired by Luka. He was the first live birth since Ashoka in 1998.
- the two young male Rotterdam calves, Maxim and Timber, left for Seville, both now aged four.
- Tanja was sent to Gansendorf in 2002, presumably as an exchange for the three cows they'd sent to Port Lympne. She was sent to Terra Natura (Benidorm) two years later, which is where the majority of the Port Lympne elephants would eventually be sent.
- The herd would now have been 3.10
2004
- In 2004, Bindu departed for Cologne zoo, and has since bred successfully there, leaving 2.10 animals and just one mature bull (Luka).
2005: departures, death of sittang, and third adult death
- In April 2005 the only surviving calf, May Tagu (F) was born to Khaing Phyo Phyo by Luka.
- The two remaining Gansendorf elephants, La Grande and Momo, were sent to Terra Natura in May 2005, leaving 2.9 in the herd.
- Yu Yu Yin had a stillbirth by Luka in May 2005.
- In July 2005, a day after producing a stillborn calf by Luka, Tin Tin Htoo died at Port Lypme.
- Four months after she'd given birth to May Tagu, Khaing Phyo Phyo lost her older three-year old calf Sittang to the herpes virus, in August 2005.
2006: The remaining eight elephants leave Port Lympne
- In May 2006, the remaining Rotterdam elephants (Yu Yu Yin, Khaing Phyo Phyo and her PL-born calf, May Tagu) left for Antwerp.
- In June 2006, Luka, Rani, Pugli and Buria were sent to Terra Natura, followed by Motki, and Yasmin in August of that year.
Pugli died at Terra Natura in 2007, and Luka remains there:
http://www.asianelephant.net/benidorm/benidorm.htm#
- Mokti and Yasmin left Terra Natura in 2009 for Hungary:
Motki, one of the original Howlett's cows, didn't leave Spain with any of the other Howlett's cows, but went to Nyiregyhazi (Sosto) in Hungary in 2009 with Yasmin and Tanja.
http://www.zoochat.com/153/green-pyramid-149091/ (I'm pretty sure thats Motki on the left)
Rani and Buria left Terra Natura in 2010 for Neunkirchen in Germany, where they are with the old Glasgow animal, Kirsty.
http://www.asianelephant.net/neunkirchen/neunkirchen.htm
May Tagu is still alive and has moved with her mother and aunt to Plakandael in June of this year:
http://www.zoochat.com/112/asian-elephant-277726/
It should be noted that there was at least on African elephant in the complex during the time the Asian elepants were there (I think Masa), for some reason one of the older cow's indoor accommodation at Howletts was being worked on and she was temporarily held in one side of the bull house. If my memory is right this would have been following Bindu's departure, rather than prior to Luka's arrival.
It should also be noted that, of the 3 African cows arrive from Howletts in 2006 as the last Asian elephants were departing, two are now dead according to the elephant database. Shara (mother of Osh, born at Howletts and now the bull at Oakland) died in 2008 and Lara died last year (September 2011). The only remaining cow at PL is Lara's daughter, Issa. I find that striking, given the contrast in mortality (both infant and adult for that matter) at Howletts. It would seem to me that PL may become a bachelor facility unless there are some other plans afoot.
1977: The Asian elephants leave Howletts for Port Lympne
There were six (2.4) Asian elephants originally at Port Lympne. Pugli, Motki, Buria, Rani, Assam and Bindu arrived in 1977 from Howletts where they'd been kept since they'd arrived as infants, but from footage I've seen, not in the same house as the African elephants there, more like a wooden barn (they were still young animals when they left Howletts):
Echo of the Wild Part 4 of 6.mov - YouTube (06:44)
Of these six, one of the two bulls (Assam) was very special, as he was captive-bred at Hannover.
1984: First breeding ends in the calf being killed
- Assam and Pugli had mated successfully, and she gave birth in 1984, but killed the calf at birth.
1985
- Bindu, the other bull, killed a keeper.
1987: Second birth is the first of many stillborn calves
- Rani had a stillbirth sired by Bindu.
1988 - First new animals brought in since formation of group in 1971
- PL acquired Yasmin and Davida from Windsor Safari Park, leaving Windsor with a lone African who was shortly to be joined by around seven cull orphans to form a new herd. This brought the number at PL up to eight(2.6) animals. By this stage the new bull house had been built (for years they kept the entire group of 2.4, with just a one yard and paddock, in what is now the cow barn.
1990
- Yasmin gave birth to stillborn male twins, sired by Bindu.
1992
- A cow named Tanja arrived from Boras Zoo, making 2.7
1993: First adult death
- Davida dies two weeks after giving birth to a stillborn calf, leaving 2.6
1994: Loan and second adult death
- Rani and Buria were loaned to Chester in 1994, but didn't successfully mate there, temporarily reducing the herd to 2.4
- Assam died in 1994 during an anaesthetic, leaving the herd at 1.4
1996
- Assam sired a calf before his death, again with Pugli, but it was stillborn in 1996. The database only records Assam as having sired the two calves with Pugli.
- Rani and Buria returned from Chester in 1996, increasing the herd back to 1.6
1997: Arrival of new second bull
- Luka (M) arrived in 1997 from Belfast, having successfully sired a calf there, making 2.6.
1998: Second live birth, and hand-rearing attempt
- Pugli then mated with Bindu and produced Ashoka (M) in 1998 but, due to Pugli trampling her first calf, Ashoka was removed for hand-rearing, but died aged 11 months. Ashoka was kept near the adults and could often be seen wandering round the elephant area.
1999: Rotterdam animals arrive
- Three cows (Khaing Phyo Phyo, Yu Yu Yin, and Tin Tin Htoo) and their one year-old male calves (Maxim and Timber) arrived at PL from Rotterdam in 1999. This would have brought the numbers up to 11 adults and two calves (4.9)
2000: Gansendorf animals arrive
- In 2000 three cows were loaned from Gansendorf in Austria (La Petite, La Grande, and Momo), making 4.12. I can't actually believe this many elephants were housed at Port Lympne at one time?
- La Petite killed a keeper within three months of arriving.
2001: La Petite leaves
- In 2001, La Petite was sent to Ramat Gan zoo, where she remains, making 4.11
2002: Third live birth and first parent-reared calf/ others leaving PL
- Sittang (M) was born to Khaing Phyo Phyo in 2002, sired by Luka. He was the first live birth since Ashoka in 1998.
- the two young male Rotterdam calves, Maxim and Timber, left for Seville, both now aged four.
- Tanja was sent to Gansendorf in 2002, presumably as an exchange for the three cows they'd sent to Port Lympne. She was sent to Terra Natura (Benidorm) two years later, which is where the majority of the Port Lympne elephants would eventually be sent.
- The herd would now have been 3.10
2004
- In 2004, Bindu departed for Cologne zoo, and has since bred successfully there, leaving 2.10 animals and just one mature bull (Luka).
2005: departures, death of sittang, and third adult death
- In April 2005 the only surviving calf, May Tagu (F) was born to Khaing Phyo Phyo by Luka.
- The two remaining Gansendorf elephants, La Grande and Momo, were sent to Terra Natura in May 2005, leaving 2.9 in the herd.
- Yu Yu Yin had a stillbirth by Luka in May 2005.
- In July 2005, a day after producing a stillborn calf by Luka, Tin Tin Htoo died at Port Lypme.
- Four months after she'd given birth to May Tagu, Khaing Phyo Phyo lost her older three-year old calf Sittang to the herpes virus, in August 2005.
2006: The remaining eight elephants leave Port Lympne
- In May 2006, the remaining Rotterdam elephants (Yu Yu Yin, Khaing Phyo Phyo and her PL-born calf, May Tagu) left for Antwerp.
- In June 2006, Luka, Rani, Pugli and Buria were sent to Terra Natura, followed by Motki, and Yasmin in August of that year.
Pugli died at Terra Natura in 2007, and Luka remains there:
http://www.asianelephant.net/benidorm/benidorm.htm#
- Mokti and Yasmin left Terra Natura in 2009 for Hungary:
Motki, one of the original Howlett's cows, didn't leave Spain with any of the other Howlett's cows, but went to Nyiregyhazi (Sosto) in Hungary in 2009 with Yasmin and Tanja.
http://www.zoochat.com/153/green-pyramid-149091/ (I'm pretty sure thats Motki on the left)
Rani and Buria left Terra Natura in 2010 for Neunkirchen in Germany, where they are with the old Glasgow animal, Kirsty.
http://www.asianelephant.net/neunkirchen/neunkirchen.htm
May Tagu is still alive and has moved with her mother and aunt to Plakandael in June of this year:
http://www.zoochat.com/112/asian-elephant-277726/
It should be noted that there was at least on African elephant in the complex during the time the Asian elepants were there (I think Masa), for some reason one of the older cow's indoor accommodation at Howletts was being worked on and she was temporarily held in one side of the bull house. If my memory is right this would have been following Bindu's departure, rather than prior to Luka's arrival.
It should also be noted that, of the 3 African cows arrive from Howletts in 2006 as the last Asian elephants were departing, two are now dead according to the elephant database. Shara (mother of Osh, born at Howletts and now the bull at Oakland) died in 2008 and Lara died last year (September 2011). The only remaining cow at PL is Lara's daughter, Issa. I find that striking, given the contrast in mortality (both infant and adult for that matter) at Howletts. It would seem to me that PL may become a bachelor facility unless there are some other plans afoot.
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What I meant was the Elephants and Sumatran rhinos were the only endangered species they were trying to breed and failed with. The Chimpanzees were really from an earlier period of the Park's development before they started to concentrate mainly on endangered species. Other species they similarly dropped along the way were Wild Boar and later on the Wolves, but none of these were because they couldn't keep/breed them satisfactorily.
johnstoni said:
Very interesting and thankyou for taking the time to collate all this.
Re the Africans at PL, that explains why I thought I saw only one female there in May with a couple of young bulls. It appears they currently hold 3.1(?) adult bull Kruger, the two young bulls and female Issa.
I think the Black Rhino indoor housing, though fairly basic, is not on a par with the Elephants'. Most of the rhino Paddocks are in the rather bowl shaped area of the hillside so slightly less exposed- and I've never thought it was a bad arrangement like the Elephants.
The Sumatran Rhinos had 'top-priority' comfortable housing due to their extreme rarity and tropical origin no doubt.
Thanks to johnstoni for a very comprehensive history of Port Lympne's elephants.
Just a couple of very minor corrections:
Just a couple of very minor corrections:
- Buria remained at Chester until 1996, but Rani returned to Port Lympne at the end of 1994 (I seem to remember that Rani was the matriarch at Port Lympne and the herd was unsettled by her absence).
- The African Elephant that moved to Port Lympne temporarily was Belah - this was between Dec 1996 and May 1997 (i.e. just prior to Luka's arrival from Belfast).
i dont think it would be a bad idea to swap Jums and Kruger and send Issa with Kruger to Howletts and then have Jums and his two sons as a bachelor herd.
sorry- edited your post by mistake while quoting from it...
I imagine that must be the intention at some stage- to swap the two adult bulls at least. How many of the younger females at Howletts now are Jums' daughters?
sorry- edited your post by mistake while quoting from it...
I imagine that must be the intention at some stage- to swap the two adult bulls at least. How many of the younger females at Howletts now are Jums' daughters?
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