Twycross Zoo Twycross Zoo news 2012 #4

Gigit

Gigit

Well-Known Member
Thoughts after visiting on 17 October

Impressions from my first visit for 8 years:

The Himalaya white elephant - a glorified shop full of things nobody needs. I did like the brightly coloured chairs though.

The Elephant Walkway that leads you away from the real elephants to models of elephants and the very dull Bornean longhouse area :confused:

The bizarre Penguin crossing :confused:

The only sign of ongoing development - the 'exciting' Coati enclosure :rolleyes:

The new owl aviary looks good - a sign indicates it was funded by a donor.

I saw just one chimp in the Green Mile.

The gorillas weren't interacting with each other.

The orangutans had no enrichment (I don't count fixtures and fittings as enrichment). They were quick to come over to the window when we stopped with our bag of 'interesting things'. Batu and Kibriah are in mating mode.

I have an image in my mind of large areas of lawn dotted with a few small inadequate houses. If it hadn't been for some school groups, it would have looked almost empty. We thought it looked like a zoo preparing to close down next week but it probably didn't help that we'd been to Chester the day before - from the sublime to the ridiculous. Congratulations to the staff for remaining polite and cheerful.

Sorry to sound so downbeat but I can't really think of anything positive to say. It would only be the orangs that would draw me back and that's just because of my 'obsession'.

One idea for them - they could make more of their free tattooing service. The stamp on my hand to enable me to exit the zoo for refreshments in Himalaya finally succumbed after several hand washes, a shower and some make-up remover. Perhaps they could brand you with the image of an animal of your choice ;)
 
I would like to take this opportunity to post that it is five years to this day that Miss Molly Badham M.B.E. left us, I am sure I speak for all members who are fond of Twycross that she is most certainly not forgotten.
 
TARZAN said:
I would like to take this opportunity to post that it is five years to this day that Miss Molly Badham M.B.E. left us, I am sure I speak for all members who are fond of Twycross that she is most certainly not forgotten.
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It's good that they named the delightful little orangutan Molly after her.
 
Ouch Gigit, that sounds harsh. Chester is one of the very best zoos in whole Europe so your standards were VERY high. There is a lot that needs to change in Twycross and it will be impossible to ever make it as beautiful and "natural-looking" as Chester unless you rebuild the complete zoo, but my impression wasn`t nearly a negative as yours. The many cages in Twycross are not pretty for the human eye, but they are actually pretty good for monkeys. They just need more stuff in it and less groups of monkeys so that the animals have more space (like connecting 2 outdoor cages for one group).

The great ape enclosures all need to be covered by a mesh and stuffed with ropes, then it would be pretty good....

By the way, its great to hear that Twycross has changed to protected contact with the elephants.
 
Yassa, Twycross used to be my favourite zoo and we even considered moving near it when leaving London 8 years ago - we're close to Paignton Zoo instead, for various reasons. So it saddens me to see that nothing's improved and some things have got worse.

I know that over the years there have been plans to improve the orangutan enclosure but they've never materialised. Your idea for mesh and ropes could be easily and inexpensively achieved but I don't think it's on the agenda.

I think it's significant that dedicated keepers who were there in Molly Badham's time have left.
 
Gigit said:
Impressions from my first visit for 8 years:

I have an image in my mind of large areas of lawn dotted with a few small inadequate houses. If it hadn't been for some school groups, it would have looked almost empty. We thought it looked like a zoo preparing to close down next week but it probably didn't help that we'd been to Chester the day before - from the sublime to the ridiculous. Congratulations to the staff for remaining polite and cheerful.
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Maybe it should close down. It offers very poor accomodation for its animals in most cases and plans to redevelop them have not come to fruition. And the redevelopment it has done has seemingly been, as you say, a white elephant of no benefit to its existing animals. Its not had breeding success with its elephants and still has no plans to build bull accomodation. Its primate collection has dwindled over the years and its chimps are now non-breeding I believe, with a disfunctional gorilla group. It has a relatively small footprint by modern zoo standards and with new collections starting up, is there any need for this outdated, isolated zoo that seems to resist appropriate modernisation?
 
I made a short visit to Twycross this afternoon, which was my first for two years.
I can't add much to the information already posted by josh_08 and Gigit. The work in the former gorilla house (opposite the elephants) on Joe's old exhibit seems to be almost complete; since Gigit took the photo in the Gallery earlier this week, the floor has been covered with wood wool and I wonder if the last three male chimps from the Green Mile will be moved into this section.
I didn't see any gorillas as they were locked into dens when I reached their house at 3pm and I didn't see a keeper to ask why.
On the wider question of the future of Twycross, I hope things have just passed their lowest ebb. I think that changing the elephants to protected contact is a good idea, two were being trained in the house when I looked in. The new owl aviaries are very nice and work is under way on modifying the old sea lion enclosure for coatis (which are currently on show in monkey house nearest the entrance). The PPP (Pointless Penguin Parade) also appears to be virtually complete.
I think everyone will be pleased when all the Green Mile enclosures are empty, as it will mean that all the chimps have reasonable accommodation.
As I see it, the challenge for Twycross over the next few years is to maintain this progress, which I hope will involve redeveloping the central strip of the zoo - the Green Mile, the old children's zoo, the little area for wing-clipped macaws, the old ape nurseries, the giraffe area and the site of the old monkey house (now demolished). There are so many animals that need better accommodation that it will be hard to set priorities: I think mine would be a second bonobo house (assuming that the split into two groups is permanent and that they don't decide to transfer one group to another collection) and new aviaries for the different macaw species, which would give more space for their other parrots. The Kuno development for Asian carnivores can wait in my view.
My worry is that the Twycross managers seem very prone to shooting themselves in the foot. The animal enclosures all have nice new signs, which are well designed, colourful and informative - but every indication of the individual animals' names has gone - which I despise. The Malayan tapir and the yellow-throated marten(s) are both striking animals, but they are virtually invisible to visitors as all the fences, windows etc have been blocked off, without any explanation. Even the expensive and beautiful snow leopard enclosure has a major design weakness, the right hand end wall is constructed with gabions (I heard a visitor use the word and suddenly realised that's the right name for those wire boxes filled with stones): they are the ideal places for the animals to lie, invisible to visitors at the outside window and barely visible to the happy campers dining in 'Himalaya' (I entirely agree with Gigit about the tat that's also on sale there, but I have hardly seen anyone buying it).
Finally I loved the vase of fresh flowers in the gents at 'Himalaya'; I found it soothing to watch the ants and there was even an odd sort of consolation in not seeing any birds in the aviary; the fittings were nice, the water was hot and bubbly, the Dyson hand driers are state-of-the-art but the stainless steel soap dispensers weren't working, so there was a little pump bottle of supermarket liquid soap beside each designer washbasin :confused:

Alan
 
Empowering visitors with information......

I continue to be saddened, like many on here, by what I here from Twycross. This was the zoo that I grew up next to, the one that contributed to a lifetime interest in the natural world and animal collections. Between John the ex-head of birds, Molly & Natalie and Malcolm Whitehead, I was enthused and encouraged on a weekly basis when I'd rock up on my bike after cycling from Hinckley through the 'back-lanes'. Sometimes I'd run there (1/2 marathon approx) and the ladies at the conservatory cafe near the original gorilla house would make me cold lemonade or hot orange. The place was a family institution that the whole 'greater Leics / Warks' area was so proud of. Everyone I knew would go at least once a year. However, as more and more people started to visit high quality animal attractions overseas on holiday, or 'branch out' to some of our good safari parks, many locals were able to compare against their local pride and joy. Most people I know in the area now openly question the enclosures and parking etc.
I have written on this site before that empowering visitors with information is imperative to avoid rumour and speculation. Loyal and new visitors will understand and accept that an exhibit is empty of mega-fauna if there is a written or verbal justification. The 'average' visitor will have seen one of the TV programmes like Animal Park or Zoo story and understand the 'moves' and vet scenarios. The paying public want to know what is going on so they feel that they can 'buy-in' to the future - they/we are the stakeholders. We hear of fans of professional team sport talking about this type of investment. I only have to stand at one exhibit for 5-10 minutes at Twycross before I feel I have to correct a visitor about the ACTUAL reason an animal is or isn't doing something. A well presented sign, located at appropriate heights and distances from the enclosure is vital.
If each visitor was offered a discounted return ticket or an invite to a summer open day whilst the 'master-plan' continues - more locals will re-engage with the zoo they were once so proud to live near.
 
I understand your feelings Gigit, it`s so much more depressing when you know a zoo since long and you can see that nothing happens.

I think even thinking about closing Twycross is TERRIBLE, HORRIBLE idea since a lot of their animals would be impossible to place elsewhere and would have to be put down - esp. the chimps and most of the gibbons. That would be catastrophic.

What I`d do if I were in charge is first finding a new home for one of the bonobo groups. There is not enough space for two groups in the current enclosure and they have other priorities then building a second bonobo enclosure. Then second I`d put a high mesh over all great ape enclosures (gorillas, 3x chimps, orang utans). That would a) enable the apes to use the vertical space and b) enable the keepers to properly equip the enclosures with lots and lots of climbing opportunities, effectivly at least tripling the space the animals can use (at a rather low cost). The pics from the "new" chimp outdoor enclosure someone posted here is just depressing, a lawn with hardly anything on it is so totally unsuitable for any ape/monkey. The number of gibbon groups would have to be reduced; the current outdoor cages are good, but rather small, and the indoor rooms are much too small. That could be solved by reducing the number of groups and giving the remaining groups two cages. I get that is not an easy task since gibbons are difficult to place, so at first they should stop breeding the common species and the subspecies hybrids - mainly white-handed gibbons and maybe the siamangs too.

Then I`d build a large new facility for chimps with two or better three open-topped enclosures and move the chimps out. Their enclosures could be used for groups of gibbons, langurs, mangabeys, spider monkeys...
Some of the free space between the many monkey houses could be used for a lemur enclosure in which vistors can go. These seem to be very popular and can be done rather cheap.

New developments needed are a bull elephant enclosure and asian carnivores - I think Kuno is a good idea, tiger and lions would surely draw visitors. Financing would be a problem (ha ha), but with a good masterplan and actually something HAPPENING in the zoo in the right direction, it should be possible to find sponsors/ getting loans and funding from the EU.

On the positive note, some things that I would find absolutely necessary have already adressed: the elephants are now managed in protected contact and the barn has been accordingly modified, the giraffes have moved out (now they need to fill the paddock ASAP with something else), and Twycross already has a modern entrance with a good restaurant and a good shop. That is important too to handle the masses of vistiors that will come once my masterplan is implemented :D
 
TriGB said:
I continue to be saddened, like many on here, by what I here from Twycross. This was the zoo that I grew up next to, the one that contributed to a lifetime interest in the natural world and animal collections. Between John the ex-head of birds, Molly & Natalie and Malcolm Whitehead, I was enthused and encouraged on a weekly basis when I'd rock up on my bike after cycling from Hinckley through the 'back-lanes'. Sometimes I'd run there (1/2 marathon approx) and the ladies at the conservatory cafe near the original gorilla house would make me cold lemonade or hot orange. The place was a family institution that the whole 'greater Leics / Warks' area was so proud of. Everyone I knew would go at least once a year. However, as more and more people started to visit high quality animal attractions overseas on holiday, or 'branch out' to some of our good safari parks, many locals were able to compare against their local pride and joy. Most people I know in the area now openly question the enclosures and parking etc.
I have written on this site before that empowering visitors with information is imperative to avoid rumour and speculation. Loyal and new visitors will understand and accept that an exhibit is empty of mega-fauna if there is a written or verbal justification. The 'average' visitor will have seen one of the TV programmes like Animal Park or Zoo story and understand the 'moves' and vet scenarios. The paying public want to know what is going on so they feel that they can 'buy-in' to the future - they/we are the stakeholders. We hear of fans of professional team sport talking about this type of investment. I only have to stand at one exhibit for 5-10 minutes at Twycross before I feel I have to correct a visitor about the ACTUAL reason an animal is or isn't doing something. A well presented sign, located at appropriate heights and distances from the enclosure is vital.
If each visitor was offered a discounted return ticket or an invite to a summer open day whilst the 'master-plan' continues - more locals will re-engage with the zoo they were once so proud to live near.
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I've seldom read a post with which I've agreed so whole-heartedly. Although I was born and raised in the south, I had family in the Midlands, and there was a palpable sense of pride in Twycross, a belief that it was a jewel in the area's crown. My family were equidistant between Twycross and Dudley. In the 1970s, the latter was perceived as being something of an embarrassment, while, to Muggles, Twycross was thought - rightly or wrongly - to be one of the best zoos in the land. That whole reputation thing is so tricky - how it is acquired, how it is lost, how it is regained. But there is no doubt that Twycross has lost its good name, and needs to do an awful lot to regain it.

I'm not sure the prognosis is as gloomy as some suggest above, though. Yes, there are a number of really cruddy enclosures at the place - some of the pictures in the gallery, of the bricked-in ape houses just make me shudder - but there is potential, and it would be a very easy task to make the whole (not quite) Asian area rather good. There's a huge market on the doorstep, lots of space... With a brilliant director in place, the zoo could fly.
 
gentle lemur said:
Finally I loved the vase of fresh flowers in the gents at 'Himalaya'; I found it soothing to watch the ants and there was even an odd sort of consolation in not seeing any birds in the aviary; the fittings were nice, the water was hot and bubbly, the Dyson hand driers are state-of-the-art but the stainless steel soap dispensers weren't working, so there was a little pump bottle of supermarket liquid soap beside each designer washbasin :confused:
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Alan. You should pop in to Noah's Ark on one of your M5 sojourns. They have instructions in the toilets on handwashing procedures which you might enjoy.;)
 
Yassa said:
What I`d do if I were in charge is first finding a new home for one of the bonobo groups. There is not enough space for two groups in the current enclosure and they have other priorities then building a second bonobo enclosure.

That is important too to handle the masses of vistiors that will come once my masterplan is implemented :D
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I agree they don't need to build another Bonobo house or start another (full) second group. But I think you will find they are 'sitting on them' and don't want to let any Bonobos go to another UK collection- even if one was ready to take some- because they would lose the kudos of being the only UK collection to have them. Unlike some of their older Apes which they presumably still 'own', the Bonobos all came there from European zoos as part of the EEP programme, so if the EEP want to move some, as they do from time to time, they probably could. But Twycross could probably still foil any moves to another UK zoo.

I agree too with a lot of things in your 'masterplan'- the suggested doubling/enlarging of existing primate enclosures by removing dividing walls, the reduction in numbers of 'similar' primate species and the use of the existing Chimpanzee houses to house larger groups of some of these Primates- but that's only possible if new Chimp accomodation to house all their chimps really comes to fruition. The suggestion of roofing for the Apes, the Orangutans in particular, would be most beneficial too.

My chief concern is that all recent 'developments' have, rather obviously, been largely cosmetic- revamped Owl aviaries, re-designed Sealion pool for Coatis, Penguin Crossing/Parade set-up, Protected Elephant contact announcement, and none of these have involved any major new building projects. Until we see some of that happening it appears the Zoo is still stuck in limbo rather.
 
OrangePerson said:
It doesn't appear that small, fewer empty lawns and bigger animal accommodation would be beneficial. How does it actually compare to other zoos?
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From what I seem to remember it's about 50ish acres and a lot of that is car parking area. I may be wrong but I'd say it's got about 20-25 acres of animal space and lawns.
London is 36 acres, Chester 110, Bristol 12, Whipsnade 600+ and Dudley covers about 20 or so. That's just the figures off the top of my head so may not be 100% accurate.
 
gentle lemur said:
I think mine would be a second bonobo house (assuming that the split into two groups is permanent and that they don't decide to transfer one group to another collection)
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To me that is one of the developments they need the least... they have finally consolidated the Gorillas into one group, and the Chimpanzees at least into potentially larger groupings. Apart from a decent new(common) Chimp complex I'd prefer not see see any more building for new Ape groups. I really think one Bonobo enclosure and group is enough for them. IMO surplus animals should be sent elsewhere, whether in UK or abroad
 
Pertinax said:
Alan. You should pop in to Noah's Ark on one of your M5 sojourns. They have instructions in the toilets on handwashing procedures which you might enjoy.;)
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A religious ritual perhaps - or is that washing feet? I have resolved to follow Pontius Pilate's example and wash my hands of the place.

Alan
 
I would just like to say how much I have enjoyed reading the recent posts regarding Twycross, it is quite obvious what affection members have for this zoo, despite its current situation, I do think though in fairness that there has never been any official suggestion that this zoo may close, thank god that is not on the agenda, unlike the situation at London twenty years ago which nearly did close,and through a change of management and direction is now"firing on all four" once again, hopefully in time, the same will happen at Twycross.
 
Pertinax said:
To me that is one of the developments they need the least... they have finally consolidated the Gorillas into one group, and the Chimpanzees at least into potentially larger groupings. Apart from a decent new(common) Chimp complex I'd prefer not see see any more building for new Ape groups. I really think one Bonobo enclosure and group is enough for them. IMO surplus animals should be sent elsewhere, whether in UK or abroad
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It struck me very forcibly yesterday how peaceful and amicable the two bonobo groups are now - the last time I saw them in one group (just over 3 years ago) the tension was palpable, not just within the group of animals but with their keepers too. It taught me that, in spite of their reputation in popular science publications, bonobos are just as excitable and dangerous as chimps and I am sure they are more sensitive too.
For nearly three years the two groups have been constantly within earshot of each other, alternating in the outdoor enclosure, which cannot be satisfactory. As I said previously, once the chimps are out of the Green Mile and grouped into accommodation with decent indoor housing and access to outdoor enclosures, I think that the bonobos should be the next priority. Unless Twycross can provide suitable housing in the foreseeable future, one group should be moved as soon as suitable housing can be provided at another zoo.
It struck me yesterday that it might be possible to reuse the front wall and windows of the Green Mile as it is relatively new; if all the enclosures were combined into one, probably with a new roof and rear wall, plus an indoor section of course - it could be made into a better house for a group of chimps, bonobos or even orangs than any of the current houses.
Of course it easy for us to build castles in the air. The pertinent question is, what can Twycross afford?

Alan
 
gentle lemur said:
tension was palpable, not just within the group of animals but with their keepers too. It taught me that, in spite of their reputation in popular science publications, bonobos are just as excitable and dangerous as chimps and I am sure they are more sensitive too.
For nearly three years the two groups have been constantly within earshot of each other, alternating in the outdoor enclosure, which cannot be satisfactory. As I said previously, once the chimps are out of the Green Mile and grouped into accommodation with decent indoor housing and access to outdoor enclosures, I think that the bonobos should be the next priority. Unless Twycross can provide suitable housing in the foreseeable future, one group should be moved as soon as suitable housing can be provided at another zoo.

Of course it easy for us to build castles in the air. The pertinent question is, what can Twycross afford?
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yes ,yes, and yes.

1. I can verify that Bonobos in captivity can be at least as dangerous/untractable as 'big' chimps. I have been behind the scenes with them in a European zoo once and was warned to keep well away from their snatching hands.

2. I think they should send one group away- it is unfair to have them permanently within earshot and having shared access to the outdoor area, that has gone back to the situation when the outside area was shared by Bonobos and the small Sekondi group/trio of Gorillas.

3. The only thing I'm unclear on is whether the two groups are made up of the sexes split up, or are now two permanent male/female groups that have evolved from certain animals' incompatability. If it is the 2nd scenario then I definately think that one group should really leave, even if it was back to Europe and not within the UK.

4. 'Castles in the Air'. Yes that is exactly what we do.:) I think it is born out of frustration at what could/ should or shouldn't be done there.;)
 
Pertinax said:
3. The only thing I'm unclear on is whether the two groups are made up of the sexes split up, or are now two permanent male/female groups that have evolved from certain animals' incompatability. If it is the 2nd scenario then I definately think that one group should really leave, even if it was back to Europe and not within the UK.
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I am 80% sure that both groups have adult males and 100% sure that both have females as there are infants in both groups. The left hand group certainly has both sexes as they were the 'outside' group yesterday. It's harder to be sure when they are shut inside as the light is not so good and the animals tend to be fairly quiet and inactive. This is another situation where the removal of the labels with their names and photos is frustrating, particularly as it's been two years since I last saw them.
Can a Twycross regular confirm this?

Alan
 
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