Pros and cons of animals in captivity

One thing I learnt recently is that figs are not vegan ;)
 
Monty said:
Some interesting comments.



What about the animals killed so your fruits and vegetables can be produced. Productive monocultures require a lot of killing to maintain.



I am happy with that, and many people are happy to not know how many animals have to be killed to produce their vegetables.
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My fruit and veg is produced by me in my garden.
What animals are killed then?
 
Monty said:
Is it netted. If not what happened to the native species which used to live there.
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No its grown inside!
and before you start getting technical, the tunnels replaced buildings that had been there for 200 yrs.

The native species are increasing in my little patch, so, no, I havent killed anything.

everyone is happy here....me, my family and all the animal life.

No, I dont use pesticides either.

Stop nit picking.
 
No one can exist without effecting the world around them in some way. It's pointless to be standoffish about a vegetarian eating vegetables (??), or shellac, or gelatin. What are you really trying to prove? Because of course we have an impact on the world, nearly everyone does, either through what they eat or what they wear or through their electronics, furniture, houses... whatever. If people are just trying to live sustainably and without doing harm to animals then why aren't we condoning that?
 
Ebillan said:
No one can exist without effecting the world around them in some way. It's pointless to be standoffish about a vegetarian eating vegetables (??), or shellac, or gelatin. What are you really trying to prove? Because of course we have an impact on the world, nearly everyone does, either through what they eat or what they wear or through their electronics, furniture, houses... whatever. If people are just trying to live sustainably and without doing harm to animals then why aren't we condoning that?
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I hope I've understood you correctly. Do you think that there is a negative attitude to vegetarians in this thread? As for me we have opposite situation, where vegetarians "attack" (I mean here last messages, which are far away from thread title). They have not any arguments except "I think/feel so". They even can't say, why they love animals only, thought they know that plants are alive too.

I think this discussion is quite useless, and we can't convince each other to do something another way.
 
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I was just referring to the discussion between Monty and Chip, I didn't mean this thread in general. I agree that generally it's the opposite, where vegetarians believe that meat eaters are wrong, or even where vegans believe that vegetarians are wrong.
And for the record, I personally don't care what people do, as long as they aren't running around eating bushmeat or anything. I'm not a vegetarian myself.
 
I dont believe meat eaters are wrong!
People can eat what they like, I dont care.

I just thought it gave you a greater chance of getting cancer?
 
I know Chip, and /that/ comment wasn't directed towards you, hahaha ;-;
Only my first post was in reference to you/Monty. The second was just talking about my experiences with certain vegetarians. I actually do know quite a few people as well though who don't think eating meat is wrong, but who just simply don't want to eat it.
 
Expanding agriculture is cited as one of the greatest threats to species diversity. Raising domestic animals for meat is only one part of the damage humans do to other species. Our challenge is to decide to limit ourselves in many ways and leave as many landscapes, watersheds, forests, ocean territories, etc. alone and as unaffected as we can. The more we change the world for our exclusive benefit, the sooner systems collapse and we will be left in violent struggles for the leftovers.
 
There are many forms of sustainable agriculture, they unfortunately just aren't really feasible in countries like Canada and the US (I can't judge Europe, I don't know) with such industrialized farming. With so many people leaving the crop business, though, I don't know what's going to happen- I don't think expanding is really so much of an issue anymore. From what I've heard, in fact, there are concerns of food prices going up because not so many people will be farming ten or so years from now.
 
It's not the number of people farming that matters--it's the amount of land devoted to farming. Farms aren't abandoned when people quit being farmers--they are consolidated into larger farms. "Sustainable agriculture" is a good idea for reducing water and pesticide use and erosion, but does little to alleviate habitat loss. We see agriculture as benign and even beautiful, but farms displace all the plants and wildlife that used to live there. Agriculture expands and contracts in the US based on government conservation policies, but in Africa and Asia, it just expands, into what was forest, usually. It's all about leaving land alone to do what it naturally does (don't get me started on invasive species!)
 
Ann Littlewood said:
It's not the number of people farming that matters--it's the amount of land devoted to farming. Farms aren't abandoned when people quit being farmers--they are consolidated into larger farms. "Sustainable agriculture" is a good idea for reducing water and pesticide use and erosion, but does little to alleviate habitat loss. We see agriculture as benign and even beautiful, but farms displace all the plants and wildlife that used to live there. Agriculture expands and contracts in the US based on government conservation policies, but in Africa and Asia, it just expands, into what was forest, usually. It's all about leaving land alone to do what it naturally does (don't get me started on invasive species!)
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In Africa and Asia it expands along with the population!


clue........less kids= less food needed:eek:
 
There are actually many abandoned farms in the area that I'm from- but there's even more land which had been converted from farmland into housing. The place I live now was farmland about five years ago.

Though if the farmland is shrinking here, I'm sure it's growing elsewhere, you're right. I'm sure other farmers are taking advantage of that increasing demand.
 
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