Jordan-Jaguar97
Well-Known Member
I couldn't tell the sexes but they were generally the same size.
Owl-faced monkeys (Cercopithecus hamlyni) in Europe
- Thread starter BjoernN
- Start date
It did not used to be like that.
Simply bad species management ...
I agree with that too.
They are not difficult to breed but if animals aren't paired/grouped properly to stimulate breeding, it will obviously fizzle out. I think many Guenons are fairly shy and prefer their own company only, rather than being used in mixed exhibits or open-style enclosures which may stress them and subvert breeding. It seems may zoos just don't bother with them anymore, in favour of other commoner (in captivity that is) Monkey species that make better exhibits- Macaques, Mangabeys, Baboons, Mandrills etc. It is a vicious circle.
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Not surprising, they hadn't achieved anything with the latest pair which I think were related in some way, and I was also told that the male was thought to be infertile/subfertile. I guess this species won't be seen at Twycross again.
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There could be another single or even pair(?) offshow, or these two could be the last in the UK at present.
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I agree with that too.
My criticism there is species management commodity and fad driven, rather than looking at individual species management. I also disagree with the notion that they do not make good zoo ambassadors. That is simply just zoo tunnelvision and management speak for lack of ideas.
It remains so mind boggling that the primate zoo of the world is unable to do anything much for Cercopithecinae. They used to house a fairly representative collection of these primates at Twycross. Sad, sad, sad ...
The loss of another holder is pretty disagreeable to hear.
Althought the population is decreasing over the last years we should not forget, that the european population is still young.
The following Hamlyn monkeys were born over the last 10 years:
- 2001: 0,1 Cora (Leipzig, group II), 1,0 Cissero (Mulhouse)
- 2002: 0,1 Karmina (Mulhouse)
- 2003: 1,0 Kazai (?Valencia?)
- 2005: 1,0 Kibo (Leipzig, group III), 1,0 ??? (born at Edinburgh, ?Antwerp?)
- 2007: 0,1 Kela (Leipzig, group I), 0,1 Dexter (Mulhouse), 0,1 Manjano (Edinburgh)
- 2009: 1,0 Kindu (Leipzig, group I), 1,0 ??? (Mulhouse)
- 2010: 1,0 ??? (Edinburgh)
- 2011: 0,0,1 ??? (Mulhouse)
These are 13 young monkeys, 60% of the whole population.
Althought the population is decreasing over the last years we should not forget, that the european population is still young.
The following Hamlyn monkeys were born over the last 10 years:
- 2001: 0,1 Cora (Leipzig, group II), 1,0 Cissero (Mulhouse)
- 2002: 0,1 Karmina (Mulhouse)
- 2003: 1,0 Kazai (?Valencia?)
- 2005: 1,0 Kibo (Leipzig, group III), 1,0 ??? (born at Edinburgh, ?Antwerp?)
- 2007: 0,1 Kela (Leipzig, group I), 0,1 Dexter (Mulhouse), 0,1 Manjano (Edinburgh)
- 2009: 1,0 Kindu (Leipzig, group I), 1,0 ??? (Mulhouse)
- 2010: 1,0 ??? (Edinburgh)
- 2011: 0,0,1 ??? (Mulhouse)
These are 13 young monkeys, 60% of the whole population.
They still do- but breeding them is another matter. Some are now elderly and others just don't seem to breed for various other reasons. I believe it was mentioned on Zoochat from scrutiny of their records(by Bele) that their last successful Guenon birth was sometime in the 1990's.
They even aquired a new trio of De Brazza's quite recently from Port Lympne- I would expect them, at least, to breed there.
That, at least, is some encouragement.
They have - one of the De Brazza's had an infant when we visited yesterday.
http://www.zoochat.com/41/de-brazza-s-monkey-cercopithecus-neglectus-252432/
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No longer at Twycross. Does anyone know what happened to them?
Jordan-Jaguar97
Well-Known Member
Thanks for pointing that up. I suspect despite the 'retirement' comment they still hope they will breed, or that he might breed with the other(daughter) female. There is no other adult male available probably- though he may be infertile too (the story at Twycross).
When I asked at Edinburgh about whether he was indeed the Twycross male, before we had gotten it confirmed, the keeper said that they weren't ruling his breeding out entirely.
If accurate, the species has now left the UK - likely forever.
Hamlyn's in the UK
Wow.... Until the 1980/90's era the only one I ever saw in the UK was a male at London Zoo in the early 1960's. Then they re-appeared as pairs and trios at five different locations; London, Twycross, Edinburgh, Banham and Marwell.
London's pair bred at least twice, Twycross bred one, Banham's pair bred at least two young, Edinburgh bred several and had five or six at one stage. Marwell rather briefly had a male bred at Edinburgh plus three females from America but (afaik) they did not breed.
It is a great shame with this potential that these Monkeys weren't able to sustain a population in the UK. What happened to them all, except the very last individuals, I do not know. Presumably most of them died.
A very sad loss for the UK and like you I doubt they will come back.
P.S. Didn't Edinburgh recently still have a younger female also? Did that leave before the pair?
Wow....
Until the 1980/90's era the only one I ever saw in the UK was a male at London Zoo in the early 1960's. Then they re-appeared as pairs and trios at five different locations; London, Twycross, Edinburgh, Banham and Marwell.London's pair bred at least twice, Twycross bred one, Banham's pair bred at least two young, Edinburgh bred several and had five or six at one stage. Marwell rather briefly had a male bred at Edinburgh plus three females from America but (afaik) they did not breed.
It is a great shame with this potential that these Monkeys weren't able to sustain a population in the UK. What happened to them all, except the very last individuals, I do not know. Presumably most of them died.
A very sad loss for the UK and like you I doubt they will come back.
P.S. Didn't Edinburgh recently still have a younger female also? Did that leave before the pair?