Zoos taking advantage of volunteers and interns?

Pootle said:
I agree with mrcriss that there are several other avenues to look at to gain experience besides volunteering at a zoo. If there are no volunteer position at a zoo, then there is animal experience to be gained elsewhere for free. Just from the top of my head you could call an local rescue centres and ask to meet the owner or manager then face to face (better if possible) ask about volunteering for a few days. Veterinary centres may let you watch / clean quarters etc, for free for a few days. It is lambing season in the UK now and if you are near any farms then I reckon a few farmers would welcome some voluntary hours given to them. I helped out at a local farm several years back with lambing and despite it being hard work, it is very rewarding and you do learn a lot in a short time, possibly more than you would at a zoo in the same time. Dairy farmers may be willing to let you help out one or two days a week too, its worth asking.

Once you have a little experience similar to the above, imagine how your chances of opening the door to a zoo job either paid or unpaid are increased compared to someone without any experience at all. If you just apply to zoos and get rejected then someone who decides to do something similar to the above will have an advantage over you.
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I hope you're right. :[ I never get the feeling that doors will be open to me, with the way the job listings are worded. I have experience volunteering with domestic animals too, and I work at a kennel. But it seems like so many jobs "strongly prefer one year of paid work with exotic animals/one year of work at an AZA-accredited facility". Of course, that may just be due to the nondescript nature of some of the job titles, like "Zookeeper", that could be entry-level or a higher-up position. I'm not saying zoos shouldn't try and find experienced people, but to me, it sometimes feels like there's no chance for those of us with less exotic animal experience. Of course, I will keep trying and applying. I never stop. :P

mrcriss, I think volunteers definitely do need experience with the grafting/maintenance. Some people might not expect to do dirty work, but they'll have to learn to accept it if they really want to get into animal care. :P From what I've read, I think some internships have set schedules and others just require a minimum number of hours a week, and when that takes place can be determined by the intern. (I believe.) I'm in the US, but when it comes to volunteering I would Google for places near me and then go to their website and see if they say anything about having positions available.
 
Some people volunteer at wildlife/conservation based organisations because they want experience to get a job in the field, want a foot in the door etc. Other people do it for fun, to socialise (especially retirees here in Australia at Zoos Victoria), and to give back to the community. How much you are taken advantage of, depends on which category you fall into.

Working at a zoo is so competitive that everyone should have a backup plan. If you interested in space exploration, I doubt you will only aim to be an astronaut, because of the reality of the low selection rate. Why should anyone approach working in a zoo any differently?
 
mrcriss said:
Reading this with interest, because although I never volunteered at a zoo (I don't work for free:D), we're considering starting a volunteer programme at my work.

I also used to work at Banham, and had volunteers working with me. They were always really pushed for time at that zoo, due to the small numbers of staff....although it looks to me like they have a load more staff now than when I worked there.

Now I'm the stockman at a sixth form college that has an animal management course that has an ever growing collection of exotic, farm and domestic animals. We're applying for our zoo license so that we can get even bigger.

So what I'm saying is, remember that there are other (possibly less stressful) avenues to get volunteer experience as collections are growing in colleges. We'll be taking on volunteers very soon.

Quick question.....where do you look for volunteer positions available? We're going to advertise with one particular website (can't remember which one). So how did you guys go about getting your positions?

Also, what expectations do you have from your internship? What hours do you expect to work? Are you put on a rota? Or is it literally a case of turning up when you have a spare day and have nothing else to do?

Thanks for taking the time to answer any of my questions x
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That is what i'll be doing I think. I'm going to be more picky with what I do as I think you have to be!

An "internship" in my mind would be between 1-4 months worth of full time work, being educated about the job you are internship with/for and gaining valuable experience that will actually help you land a job in the future. So essentially doing as many of the duties that a proper paid employee would do as possible.

Seems like I've opened up a "can of worms" with this topic. :p
 
nanoboy said:
Some people volunteer at wildlife/conservation based organisations because they want experience to get a job in the field, want a foot in the door etc. Other people do it for fun, to socialise (especially retirees here in Australia at Zoos Victoria), and to give back to the community. How much you are taken advantage of, depends on which category you fall into.

Working at a zoo is so competitive that everyone should have a backup plan. If you interested in space exploration, I doubt you will only aim to be an astronaut, because of the reality of the low selection rate. Why should anyone approach working in a zoo any differently?
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We get a mixture of young people and retirees at the zoo I volunteer at but I feel like it is very military with what we are asked to do. We don't have any choice over which area we work, they are very strict about dress code and schedule and demand that a certain number of volunteers are in every day of the year because they cannot run certain areas of the zoo without them. This results in regular demanding emails being sent out asking for help on days when they are a few people short. I've been volunteering there for about 3 years now and the number of "duties" that the volunteers must do per day has almost doubled since I started (so double the amount of volunteers are required to be in each day).

I enjoy doing the actual volunteering and working with the animals etc and as it's my local zoo don't really have anywhere else do get such experience so I don't feel that strongly about it to quit but I dislike how they treat volunteers and feel like if they hired a couple more members of staff the pressure on the volunteers to perform all these "must-do" things every day would be a lot less. As I said before I think it's all about the fact that the zoo is a money making business owned by a businessman not a charity or conservation entity.

Yes, I do realise that the words "intern" or "volunteer" conjure up thoughts of people being taking advantage of by many people and yes, that is essentially what these positions are as they are what you do when you're at the bottom of the job food chain but there becomes a point when these facilities are asking too much of these individuals and the benefit/gain ratio between the person and the zoo becomes greatly unbalanced in favour of the zoo.
 
nanoboy said:
Some people volunteer at wildlife/conservation based organisations because they want experience to get a job in the field, want a foot in the door etc. Other people do it for fun, to socialise (especially retirees here in Australia at Zoos Victoria), and to give back to the community. How much you are taken advantage of, depends on which category you fall into.

Working at a zoo is so competitive that everyone should have a backup plan. If you interested in space exploration, I doubt you will only aim to be an astronaut, because of the reality of the low selection rate. Why should anyone approach working in a zoo any differently?
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Temporary back-up plan, yeah, but I don't think people should give up their dream forever and choose something else as their career because they didn't get a job right away. Jobs are hard to find in general, just because you don't get hired right away doesn't mean you don't deserve to work in your desired field. It just gets old, hearing about how "competitive" it is. Been listening to that since I was five. It's not competitive because you need a PhD to do a job that pays $10 an hour, it's competitive because people like animals.

Also, I know what you were getting at with the astronaut thing, but there are like, hundreds of zoos and aquariums in the US alone. There are only 53 astronauts in the US right now. I think the chances of working at a zoo and the chances of going into space are significantly different. Your emphasis on a back-up plan needs to be much higher with one rather than the other. I don't know. When I hear "back-up plan", what I think of is someone saying they want to go to Hollywood and win an Oscar and their parents being like "You need a back-up plan in case you suck and ruin your life in California." To be a zookeeper, you most likely need a college degree in Biology or a related field, which is kind of a back-up plan in and of itself.
 
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sealion said:
We get a mixture of young people and retirees at the zoo I volunteer at but I feel like it is very military with what we are asked to do. We don't have any choice over which area we work, they are very strict about dress code and schedule and demand that a certain number of volunteers are in every day of the year because they cannot run certain areas of the zoo without them. This results in regular demanding emails being sent out asking for help on days when they are a few people short. I've been volunteering there for about 3 years now and the number of "duties" that the volunteers must do per day has almost doubled since I started (so double the amount of volunteers are required to be in each day).
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Sorry to have to say this, but I don't think you really should have a choice over which area you work in. The zoo needs to run properly, and that can't happen if every volunteer wants to play with monkeys for instance. If you find that your number of duties is too high, then maybe you should consider a different career path, because the pressure on paid zoo staff to get everything done is incredibly high.

For our volunteer programme at the college, we shall be treating it like a proper job....with interviews to make sure we get the correct candidates. It will be a position of trust, as they will eventually be key-holders and come in to do the jobs on their own, covering the staff's day off.

I don't really believe that "volunteering" means "light duties". The work needs to be done, whether the staff are getting paid or not....animals can't look after themselves. And every zoo/collection has to be treated like a business, whether they are a charity or not....otherwise they simply can't stay afloat. So I can't blame your zoo for sending out emails to find cover (my parents get the same with The Samaritans), because if you commit to volunteering, then you need to show your face and do the job.:D
 
mrcriss is right, their maybe jobs that you don't like doing at the zoo, but you still need to do them for the good of the zoo and most importantly the good of the animals. As long as you approach those tedious tasks though with a good attitude, it won't be as bad as people are making it sound.
 
JBZvolunteer said:
mrcriss is right, their maybe jobs that you don't like doing at the zoo, but you still need to do them for the good of the zoo and most importantly the good of the animals. As long as you approach those tedious tasks though with a good attitude, it won't be as bad as people are making it sound.
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This is part of the problem that I face when trying to stir up the students to do jobs the less pleasant jobs. All I think is that they'll change their tune once they've spent a few months working in call centres or McDonalds! Then they'll be desperate to stand in fields, picking up crap!:D
 
mrcriss said:
This is part of the problem that I face when trying to stir up the students to do jobs the less pleasant jobs. All I think is that they'll change their tune once they've spent a few months working in call centres or McDonalds! Then they'll be desperate to stand in fields, picking up crap!:D
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I think it also comes from your background. Most people in Michigan have come from a background of you have to work hard to get anything, which leads to most kids excepting hard work as a part of life.
 
ByeByeBaiji said:
Temporary back-up plan, yeah, but I don't think people should give up their dream forever and choose something else as their career because they didn't get a job right away. Jobs are hard to find in general, just because you don't get hired right away doesn't mean you don't deserve to work in your desired field. It just gets old, hearing about how "competitive" it is. Been listening to that since I was five. It's not competitive because you need a PhD to do a job that pays $10 an hour, it's competitive because people like animals.

Also, I know what you were getting at with the astronaut thing, but there are like, hundreds of zoos and aquariums in the US alone. There are only 53 astronauts in the US right now. I think the chances of working at a zoo and the chances of going into space are significantly different. Your emphasis on a back-up plan needs to be much higher with one rather than the other. I don't know. When I hear "back-up plan", what I think of is someone saying they want to go to Hollywood and win an Oscar and their parents being like "You need a back-up plan in case you suck and ruin your life in California." To be a zookeeper, you most likely need a college degree in Biology or a related field, which is kind of a back-up plan in and of itself.
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I was not suggesting that anyone give up their dream at all! Dreams are fantastic motivators. I was merely making a cautionary comment that having a back up plan in case the whole zoo thing doesn't work out might be wise. I think that the last thing you want is to focus on applying only for jobs at zoos while the other jobs in other fields get filled by your peers. It might be wise to cover all bases.

PS* Do keepers really get paid $10 an hour in America? :eek:

I didn't explain my astronaut analogy very well. Many kids dream of being astronauts, but NASA employs more than 15,000 people to work on a range of space-exploration-related projects. Similarly, a zoo has far more facets to it than just caring for animals: anyone who loves animals would probably enjoy being in one of those positions and seeing the animals every day with the occasional animal encounter with a keeper. :)
 
JBZvolunteer said:
I think it also comes from your background. Most people in Michigan have come from a background of you have to work hard to get anything, which leads to most kids excepting hard work as a part of life.
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Aye, I suppose so.

Some of our kids are absolute diamonds though. There's one girl that gets right in there and picks up the poo with her bare hands, proper zoo keeper style!:D
Another lad who thinks of himself as the local strongman, is the first to help me with the heavy jobs.
Two other girls help me each week with paddock maintenance and fence building, without any grumbles.

It's these ones that I believe have a future in zoos/farms etc.....because they don't let a little hardship get in the way of getting the job done.

It's my opinion that anyone who is lucky enough to get a volunteer position in a zoo, but then turns around and has a massive whine about it, should step aside and let someone that is really passionate have a shot at it instead!
 
nanoboy said:
I was not suggesting that anyone give up their dream at all! Dreams are fantastic motivators. I was merely making a cautionary comment that having a back up plan in case the whole zoo thing doesn't work out might be wise. I think that the last thing you want is to focus on applying only for jobs at zoos while the other jobs in other fields get filled by your peers. It might be wise to cover all bases.

PS* Do keepers really get paid $10 an hour in America? :eek:

I didn't explain my astronaut analogy very well. Many kids dream of being astronauts, but NASA employs more than 15,000 people to work on a range of space-exploration-related projects. Similarly, a zoo has far more facets to it than just caring for animals: anyone who loves animals would probably enjoy being in one of those positions and seeing the animals every day with the occasional animal encounter with a keeper. :)
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Yeah, I wasn't trying to go all "I'MMA DO WHAT I WANT" mode or anything. It's just hard right now to get any job, which sucks. And yeah, I have seen entry-level keeper positions at AZA zoos for that much. Zooplantman, maybe you've been able to see more entry-level position salaries, I was just going off of the ones that I have seen. 10 is the low end of what I've seen, but I haven't seen many higher than 12. Those are just the ones I can see, remember, many don't say.

Also, I feel that people are misinterpreting what sealion has said. Nowhere in there did she say that she has a problem doing dirty-work, or a problem with the less pleasant jobs, or a problem with working hard, she's just saying that they continually increase the workload on volunteers because they're short-staffed. At the smaller zoos, it's kind of unfair for them to yell at volunteers when the volunteers are the ones getting things done. It's not like they have all the people in the world to get the job done, they have the volunteers, so why not appreciate what they do and leave the scolding out of it? I really take issue with the attitude of "We're doing YOU a favour, so we can tell you to do whatever we want and you'd better do it". I think it should be more mutualistic than that, both parties are getting something good out of it and the volunteers should be treated with respect and gratitude as the establishment should be by the volunteer.

Just because someone feels they're being mistreated doesn't mean they have no work ethic or that they only want to "play with monkeys". You're extrapolating way too far. Sealion said she's been volunteering there for three years, I don't think she would still be there if she were the sort of person who couldn't handle a bit of hard work. You're being massively passive-aggressive, in my opinion, by implying that she isn't one of the "hard-workers" who has a future in the field, or that she's "having a massive whine". Did it ever occur to you that she does her job the best she can without ever complaining but wanted to ask others if they had a similar volunteering experience? : / The opinions you put on a forum =/= the things you say at work.
 
Sealion has been complaining about dress codes even! Surely any workplace has the right to dictate what it's representatives wear to work, if it chooses to?

I stand by what I said.....in these times of economic trouble, all businesses need to tighten the purse strings. Staff have to work harder, and need to accept that work isn't always going to be fun. Those are the breaks, and if you don't like it, do something else and let somebody keen take the job.

I really don't see there should be a difference between the treatment of paid and unpaid staff. If a business can get away without paying wages, then it will.....doesn't mean it's right, but they will. Look at the amount of actors working for little or no wages because competition for jobs is so intense.....zoo keepers need to face that they're in the same kind of situation where demand for jobs will far outweigh positions available. What business wouldn't take advantage of that right now?

Also, how do we know that the standard of work by the volunteers at Sealion's workplace hasn't been dropping?

Accuse me of whatever you like, but I'm only speaking the truth.....saying I'm passive aggressive only serves to make you seem a bit whiny too. Maybe just get over it? :D

Kisses x
 
Ugh! I can't believe i actually had to type the phrase "passive aggressive".....I feel like I'm on some rubbish american chat show :D:D
 
I believe that the people in this thread who are desiring permanent zoo keeper employment could learn quite a lot here of great use if they slowed down their reactions to the posts and just took in what the experienced zoo people are posting... rather than getting defensive or antagonistic.
You are being given advice by experienced people. You don't have to like it, or fully agree with it, but you would benefit to just take it seriously.
 
All I said was that you're saying "Some people just don't know how to do hard work", but you don't know her in real life, and I thought it was a bit unfair to accuse her of that just because she was talking about her experience as a volunteer. You can think I'm whiny, but I was just trying to get you to look at it from more than one point of view.

You're saying that staff have to accept that work isn't always fun, but I don't think anyone questions that. No, work is not always fun. I just personally feel that volunteers should be treated with respect. That's all I was saying. I don't think sealion saying that volunteers should be treated with respect is equivalent to her being incapable of doing hard work. I think after volunteering at a zoo for three years she understands that there is hard work involved. Just respect people, that's all, complaining a little on a forum doesn't mean that you complain all the time in real life.

By the way, people can act as elitist as they please here on the internet, but I remain a mature individual even if I choose to disagree with someone. And I don't make flippant and sarcastic remarks such as "get over it--kisses!" Good of you to take a stab at me because I used a phrase you don't like and somehow tried to link it to where I live. But I'm not going to assume that you act petty in real life just because you did so on a forum, because then I would be a hypocrite.
 
Zooplantman said:
I believe that the people in this thread who are desiring permanent zoo keeper employment could learn quite a lot here of great use if they slowed down their reactions to the posts and just took in what the experienced zoo people are posting... rather than getting defensive or antagonistic.
You are being given advice by experienced people. You don't have to like it, or fully agree with it, but you would benefit to just take it seriously.
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But what is the sage advice being given here? "Work is not always fun"? Who denies that? "Working with animals is hard work"? I already work with animals and I know it. Sealion already works with animals and knows it. "Sometimes you have to apply to places that are your second choice"? I already did that, that's why I'm working at a kennel and not a zoo.

The thing that I disagree with is the assumption that just because you might disagree with the way a place treats its volunteers, that automatically means that you detest hard work in all forms and are incapable of doing anything without complaining. It's such hyperbole. I was merely contributing my opinion in the discussion, and I'm accused of being antagonistic and whiny. I didn't realise people would see it that way, I just wanted to partake in the discussion.
 
I hear what you are saying baiji. It's fair to say that any animal (humans included) should be treated with respect. Disrespect is not endemic to zoos of course, but I do agree that what is asked of volunteers should be reasonable, and I also agree that if a volunteer cannot stand the heat, then they should get out of the kitchen.
 
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