Zoos taking advantage of volunteers and interns?

[sealion]

Sorry to have to say this, but I don't think you really should have a choice over which area you work in. The zoo needs to run properly, and that can't happen if every volunteer wants to play with monkeys for instance. If you find that your number of duties is too high, then maybe you should consider a different career path, because the pressure on paid zoo staff to get everything done is incredibly high.

For our volunteer programme at the college, we shall be treating it like a proper job....with interviews to make sure we get the correct candidates. It will be a position of trust, as they will eventually be key-holders and come in to do the jobs on their own, covering the staff's day off.

I don't really believe that "volunteering" means "light duties". The work needs to be done, whether the staff are getting paid or not....animals can't look after themselves. And every zoo/collection has to be treated like a business, whether they are a charity or not....otherwise they simply can't stay afloat. So I can't blame your zoo for sending out emails to find cover (my parents get the same with The Samaritans), because if you commit to volunteering, then you need to show your face and do the job.

The zoo that I almost volunteered at said they were happy enough that people wanted to volunteer their time at the zoo that they get preference over which things they wanted to do (obviously some duties do need doing). This was the conservation orientated zoo as opposed to the money making zoo.

The number of duties is high for the number of people who volunteer so they are constantly pressuring the volunteers to come in more days each month. It's not the specific amount of duties you do per day that is an issue.

Did I say I considered it a "light duty"? No.

I think you're misunderstood what I was trying to say.

 

[sealion]

mrcriss is right, their maybe jobs that you don't like doing at the zoo, but you still need to do them for the good of the zoo and most importantly the good of the animals. As long as you approach those tedious tasks though with a good attitude, it won't be as bad as people are making it sound.

See my above response. I wasn't moaning about doing the tasks. I was talking about the fact that because they need X amount of volunteers at Y place in the park and X at this place, and this place etc every working day they have been asking for more and more volunteers to come in per day.

When I first started volunteering there they asked for about 2/3 volunteers per day. Now they say they need 8 to run everything they need to every day and I don't believe that have any more volunteers on their books numbers-wise.

 

[sealion]

Yeah, I wasn't trying to go all "I'MMA DO WHAT I WANT" mode or anything. It's just hard right now to get any job, which sucks. And yeah, I have seen entry-level keeper positions at AZA zoos for that much. Zooplantman, maybe you've been able to see more entry-level position salaries, I was just going off of the ones that I have seen. 10 is the low end of what I've seen, but I haven't seen many higher than 12. Those are just the ones I can see, remember, many don't say.

Also, I feel that people are misinterpreting what sealion has said. Nowhere in there did she say that she has a problem doing dirty-work, or a problem with the less pleasant jobs, or a problem with working hard, she's just saying that they continually increase the workload on volunteers because they're short-staffed. At the smaller zoos, it's kind of unfair for them to yell at volunteers when the volunteers are the ones getting things done. It's not like they have all the people in the world to get the job done, they have the volunteers, so why not appreciate what they do and leave the scolding out of it? I really take issue with the attitude of "We're doing YOU a favour, so we can tell you to do whatever we want and you'd better do it". I think it should be more mutualistic than that, both parties are getting something good out of it and the volunteers should be treated with respect and gratitude as the establishment should be by the volunteer.

Just because someone feels they're being mistreated doesn't mean they have no work ethic or that they only want to "play with monkeys". You're extrapolating way too far. Sealion said she's been volunteering there for three years, I don't think she would still be there if she were the sort of person who couldn't handle a bit of hard work. You're being massively passive-aggressive, in my opinion, by implying that she isn't one of the "hard-workers" who has a future in the field, or that she's "having a massive whine". Did it ever occur to you that she does her job the best she can without ever complaining but wanted to ask others if they had a similar volunteering experience? : / The opinions you put on a forum =/= the things you say at work.

This. As I said earlier everyone has misunderstood what I was saying. Should have known criticising zoos on a forum full of zoo enthusiasts would have opened a can of worms but I was interested to hear others' opinions. Thanks for judging me everyone!

 

[sealion]

Sealion has been complaining about dress codes even! Surely any workplace has the right to dictate what it's representatives wear to work, if it chooses to?

I stand by what I said.....in these times of economic trouble, all businesses need to tighten the purse strings. Staff have to work harder, and need to accept that work isn't always going to be fun. Those are the breaks, and if you don't like it, do something else and let somebody keen take the job.

I really don't see there should be a difference between the treatment of paid and unpaid staff. If a business can get away without paying wages, then it will.....doesn't mean it's right, but they will. Look at the amount of actors working for little or no wages because competition for jobs is so intense.....zoo keepers need to face that they're in the same kind of situation where demand for jobs will far outweigh positions available. What business wouldn't take advantage of that right now?

Also, how do we know that the standard of work by the volunteers at Sealion's workplace hasn't been dropping?

Accuse me of whatever you like, but I'm only speaking the truth.....saying I'm passive aggressive only serves to make you seem a bit whiny too. Maybe just get over it?

Kisses x

The thing with the uniform was that we were originally told we could wear blue trousers or shorts (not jeans). The type of outdoorsy/zookeeper trousers being the preference. I already had some so have been wearing them for years whilst volunteering. The management then said that we had to order a specific type of trouser that we had to wear and the message was that unless your trousers were the exact same brand and style they couldn't be worn. One of the volunteer co-ordinators spoke to me about it and gave me the impression it was over the top and pointless to be that picky for volunteers. From what I've seen not many people have actually bothered to get these "special" trousers anyway. We have to wear badges and special jumpers anyway and that's fine.

Compared to the other zoo I nearly volunteered at that said any darkish trousers would do even jeans as long as you were wearing the jumper/polo shirt too.

And who said I didn't work hard at what I do? You seem to have fabricated that statement to back up your argument.

"If a business can get away without paying wages, then it will.....doesn't mean it's right, but they will." This was all that I was getting at. If you think it's wrong why are you arguing against us volunteers then?

Also the zoo I volunteer at don't treat their volunteers and paid staff the same. There was a "scandal" a while back where a volunteer took them to court over being mistreated and the case didn't even get considered because volunteers have different rights to paid staff. We have now been made to sign an extensive "contract" type letter stating that we understand that we have no rights what so ever because we are only volunteers. In my opinion they can't have it both ways, if they want to make us work like paid staff they should treat us as well as they do their paid staff, but they don't.

I think my zoo is an anomaly as regards to volunteering (I hope) though as I think a lot of other places are more grateful of their volunteers and a lot less pushy.

 

[sealion]

I believe that the people in this thread who are desiring permanent zoo keeper employment could learn quite a lot here of great use if they slowed down their reactions to the posts and just took in what the experienced zoo people are posting... rather than getting defensive or antagonistic.
You are being given advice by experienced people. You don't have to like it, or fully agree with it, but you would benefit to just take it seriously.

Not all of the people responding have stated that they are zoo professionals I don't think. It's hard not to reply like that when people are accusing you of not working hard and that you should "choose another career path" when they don't even know you and are just randomers on the internet.

 

[sealion]

My original reason for posting this thread was actually about the internships increasing from 3-4 months to a whole year of unpaid work. That was why I posted it and I just happened to add on my thoughts about *some* volunteering positions. Everyone seems to have latched onto what me and ByeByeBaiji have said about volunteering and taken it as an opportunity to have a go (as people seem to like to do online these days).

It's funny how the topic seems to be the apparent zoo professionals vs. the volunteers. I think a lot of people on here think zoos can't possibly do anything wrong.

 

[CiaranDUK]

Quick question.....where do you look for volunteer positions available? We're going to advertise with one particular website (can't remember which one). So how did you guys go about getting your positions?

Also, what expectations do you have from your internship? What hours do you expect to work? Are you put on a rota? Or is it literally a case of turning up when you have a spare day and have nothing else to do?

*Also (if you don't mind me asking), do volunteers expect to join in with the grafting? i.e. building enclosures, making pathways etc.*

Thanks for taking the time to answer any of my questions x

I always look on the website of the collection. When I was at college, which also had an animal management section/area, then the lecturers/manager emailed us and posted on the intranet for volunteers/paid positions.

As far as I'm aware, I can do any day of the week I wish at Banham. I usually stick to a regular day however. Sometimes if I ring up to change my day, the head keeper would suggest a different day if there were a lot of work experience/volunteers in on that day (max. of four per day I believe).

When I joined Banham as a volunteer, I did expect to be helping with the building of enclosures etc, largely because that's what I did before at another collection. However, the zoo has it's own team which helps with that.

 

[mrcriss]

I always look on the website of the collection. When I was at college, which also had an animal management section/area, then the lecturers/manager emailed us and posted on the intranet for volunteers/paid positions.

As far as I'm aware, I can do any day of the week I wish at Banham. I usually stick to a regular day however. Sometimes if I ring up to change my day, the head keeper would suggest a different day if there were a lot of work experience/volunteers in on that day (max. of four per day I believe).

When I joined Banham as a volunteer, I did expect to be helping with the building of enclosures etc, largely because that's what I did before at another collection. However, the zoo has it's own team which helps with that.

I wonder which of the staff we both know? I saw a recent staff photo on Facebook, and I used to live with one of the girls on it.....she has brown hair, can't quite remember her name though (got a crap memory for names).

There was a woman with long curly blond hair called Kate that was head of the mammals section....is she still there?

I miss my binturongs at banham....I have a picture of my favourite (Misty) on my wall here now.

 

[CiaranDUK]

I wonder which of the staff we both know? I saw a recent staff photo on Facebook, and I used to live with one of the girls on it.....she has brown hair, can't quite remember her name though (got a crap memory for names).

There was a woman with long curly blond hair called Kate that was head of the mammals section....is she still there?

I miss my binturongs at banham....I have a picture of my favourite (Misty) on my wall here now.

A lot of the female staff have brown hair! I am not aware of anybody called Kate there, so she must have left a few years ago. Unfortunately, I've not known Banham to have Binturongs. I know they've had them in the past (and should bring the species back IMO!), but they've not been there for some time.

 

[mrcriss]

A lot of the female staff have brown hair! I am not aware of anybody called Kate there, so she must have left a few years ago. Unfortunately, I've not known Banham to have Binturongs. I know they've had them in the past (and should bring the species back IMO!), but they've not been there for some time.

I know.....they got rid of the binturongs to put in the islands I think.

But they were the most wonderful animals I worked with there. Loved the fossas too. Another favourite was Wayne the canadian otter (although his lady wife bit me bloody hard during a public talk!)

Also hand-reared a mongolian lamb there, called Steve the sheep. Taught him how to butt stuff, and he tried it on norman the bactrian camel.....norman picked him up and threw him over his shoulder! Steve didn't try it again!

I wish I could remember her name though.....natalie? rebecca? Can't remember. Have a funny embarrassing story about her though

 

[CiaranDUK]

I know.....they got rid of the binturongs to put in the islands I think.

But they were the most wonderful animals I worked with there. Loved the fossas too. Another favourite was Wayne the canadian otter (although his lady wife bit me bloody hard during a public talk!)

Also hand-reared a mongolian lamb there, called Steve the sheep. Taught him how to butt stuff, and he tried it on norman the bactrian camel.....norman picked him up and threw him over his shoulder! Steve didn't try it again!

I wish I could remember her name though.....natalie? rebecca? Can't remember. Have a funny embarrassing story about her though

Yeah I heard that Norman did that, that's why the sheep were moved.

 

[cleusk]

My original reason for posting this thread was actually about the internships increasing from 3-4 months to a whole year of unpaid work. That was why I posted it and I just happened to add on my thoughts about *some* volunteering positions.

I agree with Sealion on this. Internships should only last 3-4 months. If it takes a year for the intern to receive all the necessary training, then the zoo staff isn't doing its job. Because the internship is unpaid, the person has to find another way to put food on the dinner table. And you can't do it and have a normal life if you're being expected to work the kind of hours mentioned in the first post for an entire year.

 

[nanoboy]

I agree with Sealion on this. Internships should only last 3-4 months. If it takes a year for the intern to receive all the necessary training, then the zoo staff isn't doing its job. Because the internship is unpaid, the person has to find another way to put food on the dinner table. And you can't do it and have a normal life if you're being expected to work the kind of hours mentioned in the first post for an entire year.

Can't you just apply for the internship and if you get it, then start applying for jobs after a few months? It is no different to applying for other jobs while in a paying job.

 

[sealion]

Can't you just apply for the internship and if you get it, then start applying for jobs after a few months? It is no different to applying for other jobs while in a paying job.

I think the point is that you won't have any money because you'll be working full time for free for a whole year. To complete the internship you have to stay for the whole year (and if you ditch halfway you might risk getting bad "press" in the industry as you agreed to intern for a year).

 

[nanoboy]

I think the point is that you won't have any money because you'll be working full time for free for a whole year. To complete the internship you have to stay for the whole year (and if you ditch halfway you might risk getting bad "press" in the industry as you agreed to intern for a year).

What a weird industry! Scary. I want to believe in the professionalism of employees though: why trash an intern who just got a fantastic (paying) job at a zoo and has given you x months notice?

 

[tschandler71]

My teaching internship was a single semester.

 

[Shenandoah]

As I look at a career change, I would love a year long internship. Almost every zookeeper job posting requires a year of experience just to get your application looked at. If I do internships, I have to do 3 or 4 of them to get that year of experience. Plus there will be a lot of uncertainty between each (can I get another one as soon as that one finishes, or will I have to apply for several months before I get accepted to something - making it take more than a year on the calendar to get that year of experience).
A year-long internship would give me some security. And it's not as if I couldn't do something part time in the evenings and my days off to earn money to live on. A lot of internships include housing, so I wouldn't need to make a whole lot.

 

[nanoboy]

Are there other industries that can get away with having such long unpaid internships?

 

[sealion]

As I look at a career change, I would love a year long internship. Almost every zookeeper job posting requires a year of experience just to get your application looked at. If I do internships, I have to do 3 or 4 of them to get that year of experience. Plus there will be a lot of uncertainty between each (can I get another one as soon as that one finishes, or will I have to apply for several months before I get accepted to something - making it take more than a year on the calendar to get that year of experience).
A year-long internship would give me some security. And it's not as if I couldn't do something part time in the evenings and my days off to earn money to live on. A lot of internships include housing, so I wouldn't need to make a whole lot.

Really? I haven't found any in the UK and have had a brief look at some in the USA (aquatics/marine related), pretty much all don't include housing.

 

[sealion]

Evidence for the increasing popularity of these long internships can be seen in the link below:
(look at the adverts from Colchester, Chester and the park in Gibraltar in particular)


Vacancies - Biaza

It is not completely clear whether the Colchester one is full time, but the other two certainly are.