Marwell Wildlife No servals, warthogs, okapis seen...

[pipaluk]

You can check your list with their 2012 stock take:

http://www.marwell.org.uk/downloads/ANNUALRPT2012.pdf

Claims they have 1 male Golden Lion Tamarin and also 2.1 Golden Headed, I assume they are off show. Is the tamarin species only one kept in Europe, the Red Mantled? That's the only one on that list I could think it could be.

Must have been the red mantled, which only went on show briefly. I'm sure there are one or two other species held off show( the vicuna were still there, but technically off show!), but in a zoo with so many empty enclosures that is a bad as leaving the collection as far as i'm concerned. I dont think golden lion tamarins have been on show since the walkthrough closed and the golden headeds cage was marked awaiting renovation, but nothing was being done & it had already been empty a while i think.

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

So, what happened to the tamarin exhibits next to Marwell House?
(so much talk of the tamarins et cetera being off show)

 

[pipaluk]

So, what happened to the tamarin exhibits next to Marwell House?
(so much talk of the tamarins et cetera being off show)

Last time i went the cotton top were in those cages, along with douroucouli & white faced saki. Goeldi monkey cage empty, think i read they'd left. Pygmy marmoset disappeared from tropical house a few years ago & the emperors that used to be on the island at the entrance werent there last summer. I've mentioned golden lion & red mantled, the golden headed may be intended to go back on show at some stage, but the cages at entrance to lemur world were awaiting renovation according to the sign. How long that takes/took is anyones guess!

 

[JamesB]

How many houses are there by the hall? Is it two or three? If I remember correctly each house has two enclosures, one on each side. I can't remember if there is two or three houses there.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Went to Marwell today; I saw a lot of the species which people were worrying about including a full set of okapi, a good half-dozen dorcas gazelle, two arabian oryx and roughly half a dozen dama gazelle. I also saw the elderly fossa and the golden headed tamarins.

All in all I - with a newcomers eye to the collection - really enjoyed the place and saw very few empty enclosures, so I think your fears the collection is in decline and bleeding species are on the pessimistic side that said, a sign on the locked doors to their enclosure state the final two sand cats have now been euthanised.

 

[JamesB]

I don't think it's fair to say that the collection has turned round yet, if you look back at the past few years we still have lost a lot of species and little investment, and most of it badly used... look at the Siamangs, terrible enclosure. And now they want to build a new entrance, which fair enough the current one is very basic but I think they could invest in some new enclosures and species. I'm sure I would still enjoy a day out there but it would be depressing to think back a few years and notice all the animals that have left.

Where did you see the golden headed tamarins, were they near the lemurs? I saw your post in the other thread... how many golden lion tamarins did you see? I think the last report from the zoo said they only hold the one, have they managed to get hold of some more now?

Also, sad to hear about the Sand Cats, I remember they are quite a fascination with visitors, having been on quite a few school trips there when I was younger, I remember the teachers and students commenting how cute they are! But now it's all about meerkats isn't it? Wonder if they will be able to replace them and also get some more species into that house.

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

Went to Marwell today; I saw a lot of the species which people were worrying about including a full set of okapi, a good half-dozen dorcas gazelle, two arabian oryx and roughly half a dozen dama gazelle. I also saw the elderly fossa and the golden headed tamarins.

All in all I - with a newcomers eye to the collection - really enjoyed the place and saw very few empty enclosures, so I think your fears the collection is in decline and bleeding species are on the pessimistic side that said, a sign on the locked doors to their enclosure state the final two sand cats have now been euthanised.

Re dama gazelle interesting: the animal inventory only listed 3.0 individuals. Have they acquired some new? As they are the ruficollis and Europe more or less is now into mhorr will they make a change over?

 

[pipaluk]

Went to Marwell today; I saw a lot of the species which people were worrying about including a full set of okapi, a good half-dozen dorcas gazelle, two arabian oryx and roughly half a dozen dama gazelle. I also saw the elderly fossa and the golden headed tamarins.

All in all I - with a newcomers eye to the collection - really enjoyed the place and saw very few empty enclosures, so I think your fears the collection is in decline and bleeding species are on the pessimistic side that said, a sign on the locked doors to their enclosure state the final two sand cats have now been euthanised.

Thanks for clarifying that the golden headed and i assume single golden lion tamarin are back on show. So that's 2 off the list of shame, i'd left dwarf mongoose off, but note from the main thread, they have common marmoset, a third new species, if not that an impressive gain!
Glad you enjoyed it, i don't think Marwell is rubbish, but the list still shows it is a collection in decline.

 

[Pertinax]

and most of it badly used... look at the Siamangs, terrible enclosure.

IMO that is the worst designed modern enclosure I have seen anywhere in recent years. It seems to have been built without any concept of the natural behaviour of Siamangs(or Gibbons generally)- very odd for a Zoological Park.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

I don't think it's fair to say that the collection has turned round yet, if you look back at the past few years we still have lost a lot of species and little investment, and most of it badly used... look at the Siamangs, terrible enclosure. ..... I'm sure I would still enjoy a day out there but it would be depressing to think back a few years and notice all the animals that have left.

My point is not that the collection has "turned around" - more that from a newcomers eye, not looking at everything from a point of view remembering what *used* to be there, the collection doesn't seem anywhere near the level of dire straits as a lot of people on here insist - something your latter statement somewhat corroborates.

Where did you see the golden headed tamarins, were they near the lemurs? I saw your post in the other thread... how many golden lion tamarins did you see? I think the last report from the zoo said they only hold the one, have they managed to get hold of some more now?

Both tamarin taxa were in the lemur house sharing an enclosure. There was only one golden lion, it was unmarked.

Re dama gazelle interesting: the animal inventory only listed 3.0 individuals. Have they acquired some new? As they are the ruficollis and Europe more or less is now into mhorr will they make a change over?

There were certainly more than 3 from what I saw, though on reflection less than the half-dozen I initially estimated. Haven't a clue as to provenance if more have arrived.

 

[pipaluk]

My point is not that the collection has "turned around" - more that from a newcomers eye, not looking at everything from a point of view remembering what *used* to be there, the collection doesn't seem anywhere near the level of dire straits as a lot of people on here insist - something your latter statement somewhat .

I think to any first time visitor, Marwell probably seems ok, but then to me as a fairly recent visitor, Twycross doesn't seem half as bad as the panning it gets! I doubt hardly any zoo has the collection it had 30 years ago, but for me Marwell has less excuses than most- unlike others it cant blame lack of space for a net loss of approx. 20 mammal species(& in only 6 years!). The likes of London, Bristol, Dudley or even Twycross can at least
blame that, but over a much longer period.
Of all the zoos i visit at least annually, i dont think anywhere has declined as much as Marwell in the last few years, whilst several have improved. As i said before, that doesn't make it rubbish, but its slipping down the league table with each year that passes and in my opinion is probably already relegated from the top league!

 

[pipaluk]

There appears to be a total lack of direction and definitely a lack of imagination in the collection plan. It has been suggested that the sand cat house is about to be given over to meerkats- just ridiculous when in the last 2 years they've built a fairly good enclosure for them less than 50 yards away!

 

[Brum]

There appears to be a total lack of direction and definitely a lack of imagination in the collection plan.

Two of the zoos you mention in your previous post (Twycross and Dudley) both went the same way in both of these regards, yet now both are on the up. Dudley is now a very nice collection, I'm a lot more proud to have that as one of my locals now than I was ten or 15 years ago. And if we go back to the late eighties/early nineties then its improved tenfold.
Twycross also seems to be getting better constantly, another collection I remember going into decline in both collection-size and quality. Yet now they are doing away with or redeveloping what they've got.
All I'm saying is give it some time, maybe not visit for a year or so and then see what happens!

 

[JamesB]

I agree with what pipaluk said. In response to Dave, I don't think its gone to dire straits, but I do worry about what the future holds for the park, will we see a continued loss of species? How is the zoo doing financially? I really think some of the new additions including the cheetah enclosure and penguin enclosure revamp were a waste, or could have at least been done much cheaply. As has been mentioned, they have the space to do so much in the zoo and it doesn't have to come at a big price. I think as my home zoo its just frustrating to see nothing happening for it at the moment.

Houses like the Desert Carnivore one was one of my favourite exhibits in the zoo, I love the mix of species. I also liked it when Into Africa had hyraxes in there, it adds a lot to have a mix of species from the same area/habitat.

 

[pipaluk]

I agree with what pipaluk said. In response to Dave, I don't think its gone to dire straits, but I do worry about what the future holds for the park, will we see a continued loss of species? How is the zoo doing financially? I really think some of the new additions including the cheetah enclosure and penguin enclosure revamp were a waste, or could have at least been done much cheaply. As has been mentioned, they have the space to do so much in the zoo and it doesn't have to come at a big price. I think as my home zoo its just frustrating to see nothing happening for it at the moment.
.

Have to agree totally with you here! I wonder about the financial position too, but if they are still planning a new entrance, then that would indicate it can't be that bad! I don't know if it is still planned, but i repeat my view that it should not be a priority and would be a waste of money! Who cares about the entrance, it's what is IN the zoo that matters.

 

[Gary]

Do any of the board members happen to own an architecture or construction company by any chance?

Look, if anyone from Marwell ever looks on here, as we know some zoo people do, the message is simple....

GET SOME NEW ANIMALS! DON'T JUST REPLACE WHAT HAS DIED DUE TO AGE-GET SOME NEW SPECIES AND ACTUALLY ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO COME AND SPEND THEIR HARD EARNED CASH.

Not small animals-I know how much we on here love the obscure wee brown jobs, but you really need some large mammals to impress the public-some young Rhinos, Common Hippos, Bison, Bear, Lion, more Tigers, Wolves, Red Kangaroo, any number of antelope or deer to fill up the paddocks. Yes mainly ABC species but they will make a splash.

But no elephants or Apes IMO they cost far too much to house and keep. Stick to what you were good at.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

I think to any first time visitor, Marwell probably seems ok, but then to me as a fairly recent visitor, Twycross doesn't seem half as bad as the panning it gets!

That said, as a fairly recent visitor you probably saw a much better Twycross than I did only a year and a half ago, on my first - and so far only - visit very few of us would dispute that Twycross has improved a fair amount in the past 12 months or so.

My first impressions of Twycross certainly were a LOT more negative than my first impressions of Marwell; the former collection had an overwhelmingly large percentage of poor condition, shoddily designed enclosures which were falling apart around me, whilst the only enclosure at Marwell which I viewed with the same degree of disdain was the "bat house".

 

[pipaluk]

That said, as a fairly recent visitor you probably saw a much better Twycross than I did only a year and a half ago, on my first - and so far only - visit very few of us would dispute that Twycross has improved a fair amount in the past 12 months or so.

My first impressions of Twycross certainly were a LOT more negative than my first impressions of Marwell; the former collection had an overwhelmingly large percentage of poor condition, shoddily designed enclosures which were falling apart around me, whilst the only enclosure at Marwell which I viewed with the same degree of disdain was the "bat house".

Sorry i should clarify that by recent, i have been visiting Twycross annually for 4-5 years. As most of the enclosures there are 30+ years old, i cant see that they were great even then, so dont see what some of the fuss is about. Without doubt the elephants have better accomodation now. Although Twycross has lost a few notable mammals since my first visit inc lions, giraffe, sealions & malayan tapir, at least its brought a fair number in since and probably only has a net loss of about 5 mammals in the time Marwell has lost 20, which worries me far more.
Better not say much more or this will become another thread hijacked by Twycross(it usually there if it's not S Lakes!)

 

[pipaluk]

Do any of the board members happen to own an architecture or construction company by any chance?

Look, if anyone from Marwell ever looks on here, as we know some zoo people do, the message is simple....

GET SOME NEW ANIMALS! DON'T JUST REPLACE WHAT HAS DIED DUE TO AGE-GET SOME NEW SPECIES AND ACTUALLY ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO COME AND SPEND THEIR HARD EARNED CASH.

Not small animals-I know how much we on here love the obscure wee brown jobs, but you really need some large mammals to impress the public-some young Rhinos, Common Hippos, Bison, Bear, Lion, more Tigers, Wolves, Red Kangaroo, any number of antelope or deer to fill up the paddocks. Yes mainly ABC species but they will make a splash.

But no elephants or Apes IMO they cost far too much to house and keep. Stick to what you were good at.

Excellent post! I wouldn't object to a few more smaller mammal rarities(carnivores and or primates) but i like your ideas in the main!

 

[Gary]

Thank you. I know it's a bit like the pub drinker as football manager analogy, but I would love to be on the board at Marwell.

After all, I've been going there since the beginning, at the age of 5, and live about a mile and a half away.

You'd certainly see some changes,-no more expensive and ultimately pointless buildings-this is not a city zoo and part of the charm to me is the more rustic stables and pens look.

I think too many zoos, like other businesses have their fingers in too many pies these days. Diversification doesn't always work.

First thing I'd do though was to make every board member personally invite Dr Knowles back to his own damn zoo.