Paignton Zoo Paignton Zoo News 2013

Pertinax said:
In a situation like that, there is a case for bringing all the remaining individuals together at one site to see if any of them are still young enough and/or compatable as breeders. Nothing is likely to happen otherwise except a gradual die-off..:(
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Exactly; question is, would anywhere be interested in attempting a last-ditch effort like that? We may love unusual species like this, but the general public might just see another monkey, and in situations like this it is often the public which dictate what risks a zoo takes.
 
It probably works against this species that it is a brown rather nondescript-looking Monkey. It may be unique in being more closely allied to the Baboons than other monkeys but for the general public that's not a factor that would interest them very much! But I feel its down to the EEP co-ordinator to make some effort to save the captive population from oblivion. This species does seem to have a very slow/poor breeding rate in European zoos, which is probably the main reason for this decline.

I think ASM also ranks among those species of Monkeys, like some Guenons and Macaques where there just isn't much interest or demand for them from the zoos, for the above stated reasons, so they could be in danger of going under as far as zoo exhibits are concerned.
 
Pertinax said:
I think ASM also ranks among those species of Monkeys, like some Guenons and Macaques where there just isn't much interest or demand for them from the zoos, for the above stated reasons, so they could be in danger of going under as far as zoo exhibits are concerned.
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Indeed; I can easily see a not-so-distant future where the only guenons and macaques in the UK - possibly even Europe - are Diana Monkey, De Brazza Monkey, L'Hoest Monkey, Sulawesi Crested Macaque, Lion Tailed Macaque and Barbary Macaque - and even Diana and Liontailed are not certain to hang on, I fear.
 
It seems to be a case of the more freely breeding species surviving or increasing where the others fade away- example 'L'Hoests seems a bolder and much more successful breeder in Zoos than Hamlyn's and now seems to have virtually replaced it.

Allen's Swamp Monkey hasn't got much chance of a longterm zoo future really.:(
 
The only vague silver lining is that in the wild, Allen's Swamp Monkey is one of the species in the Cercopithecini which is faring the best, being classed by IUCN as Least Concern. Offhand I think the only other species which is doing better in terms of population levels and range is the De Brazza's Monkey.
 
Pertinax said:
In a situation like that, there is a case for bringing all the remaining individuals together at one site to see if any of them are still young enough and/or compatable as breeders. Nothing is likely to happen otherwise except a gradual die-off..:(
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In my opinion Guenons have been and continue to be poorly managed and their gradual disappearance is a testament to this fact.
Pertinax, there is a good article in the spring EAZA publication detailing the successful management of Diana guenons at Ostrava describing how they retain females to build good sized social groups (currently two groups; one group of 6 and another of 7). This is a stark contrast to the vast majority of collections who exhibit pairs and have minimal breeding success.
In Europe only L'Hoest, Debrazza and Diana guenons are currently sustainable and many Dianas are languishing in situations which prevent breeding.
The AZA have shown some enthusiasm and there are reasonable breeding successes with Schmidt's, Debrazza and Wolf's Guenons. They also had the good sense to try and resuscitate the EEP population of Hamlyn's Guenon and bolster L'Hoests guenon by exporting all viable animals.
There is also sustained success with Allen's Swamp Monkeys in the SSP with breeding groups at San Diego, Cleveland, Toledo and not so recently at Oregon and Lincoln Park. The SSP was bolstered by the importation of 8 additional wild caught founders in 2005. Perhaps the EEP coordinator could take the initiative to send any viable animals to join the SSP.

I don't think there's much chance of Lion Tailed macaques disappearing from the UK any time soon!
 
Dicerorhinus said:
Pertinax, there is a good article in the spring EAZA publication detailing the successful management of Diana guenons at Ostrava describing how they retain females to build good sized social groups... This is a stark contrast to the vast majority of collections who exhibit pairs and have minimal breeding success.

There is also sustained success with Allen's Swamp Monkeys in the SSP with breeding groups at San Diego, Cleveland, Toledo and not so recently at Oregon and Lincoln Park. The SSP was bolstered by the importation of 8 additional wild caught founders in 2005. Perhaps the EEP coordinator could take the initiative to send any viable animals to join the SSP.

I don't think there's much chance of Lion Tailed macaques disappearing from the UK any time soon!
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Dianas-yes, I read that article. Really its just following common-sense management if you want to expand any primate group- keep the daughters and exchange the breeding male every so often. Better than another option- exchanging females for unrelated ones- as if the home-bred females stay together and/or in their natal groups they form matrilineal lines which keeps fighting, competition and stress at a minimum, precludes females attacking other females' babies and also provides maternal support from relatives, all of which is lacking in unrelated groups.

Sadly as you point out, very few zoos allow their Dianas, or other Guenons to evolve into groups like this as 'pairs' seem to be the norm.

Allen's Swamp Monkey. Yes, I've noticed they seem to do better in the US than in Europe. The US failed to do well with Hamlyn's though and some years ago (some of?) their last ones were sent to Europe (something similar may be happening with Drills also.) Maybe as you suggest, Europe should reciprocate by sending any remaining viable Swamp Monkeys to the US?

Liontailed Macaque- I can't see them dying out in the UK either- they are pretty free-breeding, at least at Chester, while to my knowledge Bristol stopped theirs (prevented them) breeding anymore a long while ago.
 
I know this the sort of idle speculation that causes trouble: but if Paignton goes out of Allen's, I would dearly like to see a few talapoins in that enclosure (although it would probably need some modification).

Alan
 
A Capybara and a Brazilian Tapir have been born in the last week.


For those still to see it, the False Gavial appears less shy now and I spotted it easily the other day.
 
Name that Orangutan

The zoo has put up collecting boxes for naming Mali's daughter, born in April. You vote by putting money in the appropriate box. The choices are Bethari, Elok, Intan, Kes, Lintang, Ratih, Tatou and Utari. Is it just me or are they all unappealing?

The first box, for 'Bethari', had the most money today. I noticed when they did this for the Mandrill baby that the first box was always in the lead, and won. I suspect it's the work of children given money to placate them while in the queue!
 
Gigit said:
The choices are Bethari, Elok, Intan, Kes, Lintang, Ratih, Tatou and Utari. Is it just me or are they all unappealing?
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Gigit said:
It doesn't help when there's no indication of the correct pronunciation.
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roughly:

beh-tah-ree
eh-lok (but they would probably say ee-lok)
een-tahn or in-tahn (but they would probably say in-tan)
kes (? I have no idea what this means if it is Indonesian)
lin-tahng
rah-tee
tah-tow (ryhme with low)
oo-tah-ree

They are all unappealing because to an English-speaker the sounds are awkward. Probably Lintang and Utari would be easiest.
 
Chlidonias said:
roughly:

beh-tah-ree
eh-lok (but they would probably say ee-lok)
een-tahn or in-tahn (but they would probably say in-tan)
kes (? I have no idea what this means if it is Indonesian)
lin-tahng
rah-tee
tah-tow (ryhme with low)
oo-tah-ree
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Thank you - that makes a difference! I did have visions of them calling her in with 'Ratty' or 'Tattoo'.
 
Gigit said:
Thank you - that makes a difference! I did have visions of them calling her in with 'Ratty' or 'Tattoo'.
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it probably would be pronounced like that (remembering Maguari saying lengthening the a makes one sound like a pretentious plonker if in the wrong part of England...or something like that :D)
 
Chlidonias said:
it probably would be pronounced like that (remembering Maguari saying lengthening the a makes one sound like a pretentious plonker if in the wrong part of England...or something like that :D)
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Ooh aah! It's OK to have a really long a in the West Country :D

Alan
 
Paignton & L Coasts summer 2013 - musings.....

Visited both sites a number of times in the past week including a few days 10-6.

Living Coasts - very busy which is great. The African penguins seem much more at ease with the public these days. The vegetation has been cut right back, mainly the gorse. It looks a bit 'bare', but there must be very good reasons behind it. Still no Bank Cormorant eggs or news of the next trip to collect - anyone know? There are a number of puffins and cormorants on eggs but the Pigeon Guillemots are down to a single pair which is really unfortunate. The Choughs seem to be thriving in there. The Lutra Lutra have moved out and been replaced by a young bachelor group of asian short clawed. As has been mentioned, the management had to cover/net this exhibit having lost some young waders. I have a suggestion but it may not be realistic due to disease/pathogen transmission etc, but, how about keeping the Asian S clawed for day viewing and allowing the European breeding pair to utilise the space out of hours?

Zoo - The Gardens and borders are looking truly magnificent and the team need more praise. The A Ark ponds, restaurant and vet gardens in particular look beautiful. The new African aviaries look good and make for a nice place to picnic. Only saw signage (plus actual birds) for Crowned Cranes and Ground Hornbills. I may be just very unlucky, but I have not seen the rhinos in their grassed paddocks for years, it seems a bit wasted maybe? Coincidentally, I read recently that the studbook keeper for Indian O H rhino is looking for new holders, with an indoor pool added maybe Paigntons would be perfect? The current rhinos could move into the Elephant house in time with a little adjustment as they will go out of elephant eventually.
I saw very few keeping staff, only the gardens and occasionally the Education team were visible? They do work very hard but there was literally no one to ask questions of - maybe they knew I was there! (the one exception was an excellent keeper-delivered Gorilla talk opposite the Rail aviary).
The Orang islands desperately need sorting out. They should get the team that did Durrells to advise and consult.
The Echidna was active all week but most people stay a minimal amount of time assuming its just a baby porcupine. I tactfully corrected a number of visitors and continued to explain what a privilege it is to view one outside in the UK so close up!
The squirrel monkey island is working very well and keeps people entertained along with the cleverly located Coati exhibit. Can someone explain why two of the best primate island exhibits in the UK are used to house a seemingly non-breeding pair of Howlers and a lone Grey Gibbon!
The Tropical House and Desert house are looking terrific, lots of feeding stations close to the pathways, lowered tortoise barriers and new cacti planting.
The Takin should be moved to the Barbary sheep exhibit, even if they are kept below the cliffs initially.
Some signage needs to be added explaining that there is a large off-show area for the cheetah, as many visitors verbalise negative comments about the enclosure [deeming it too small].
Does anyone know if the Maned Wolves are still a priority as there seems to be some 'work' going on close by?
Overall, considering the financial climate, I was happy that everything looked good. I enjoyed my experiences.
 
TriDV said:
I may be just very unlucky, but I have not seen the rhinos in their grassed paddocks for years, it seems a bit wasted maybe? Coincidentally, I read recently that the studbook keeper for Indian O H rhino is looking for new holders, with an indoor pool added maybe Paigntons would be perfect? The current rhinos could move into the Elephant house in time with a little adjustment as they will go out of elephant eventually.

Some signage needs to be added explaining that there is a large off-show area for the cheetah, as many visitors verbalise negative comments about the enclosure [deeming it too small].

Does anyone know if the Maned Wolves are still a priority as there seems to be some 'work' going on close by?
Overall, considering the financial climate, I was happy that everything looked good. I enjoyed my experiences.
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I'm a member at Paignton Zoo and go every month (except August - to busy). I've seen the Rhino's out in the grass area a couple of times, but usually in the mornings then they are locked off of it the rest of the day.

I think one of the Maned Wolves, Maya (female) has died. The sign now only has Smolis (male) and refers to him as a bachelor. I've adopted them and will ask the Zoo in September. Maybe they are not going to keep Maned Wolves once Smolis (and Maya if she is still alive) have passed away? They are quite elusive and many people comment/moan about this when they pass the enclosure. I've only seen them out in the winter months, in spring/summer they don't come on until late in the day and I've left by then.

The Cheetah is almost always lazing near the viewing window. It seems content so can't see why people moan. Looking at an satelite map you can see they do indeed have a large off show area for the Cheetah. I'm sure they've only got the one, I'e never seen any more and it's always the same Cheetah out?
 
Drago said:
I'm a member at Paignton Zoo and go every month (except August - to busy). I've seen the Rhino's out in the grass area a couple of times, but usually in the mornings then they are locked off of it the rest of the day.

I think one of the Maned Wolves, Maya (female) has died. The sign now only has Smolis (male) and refers to him as a bachelor. I've adopted them and will ask the Zoo in September. Maybe they are not going to keep Maned Wolves once Smolis (and Maya if she is still alive) have passed away?

The Cheetah is almost always lazing near the viewing window. It seems content so can't see why people moan. Looking at an satelite map you can see they do indeed have a large off show area for the Cheetah. I'm sure they've only got the one, I'e never seen any more and it's always the same Cheetah out?
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Rhinos: they are usually separated but one is often out on the grass. I get the impression that they do prefer to be inside once their house has been reopened after cleaning.

Maned Wolves: Yes, Maya died earlier this year. She was 13 years old, the same age as Smalis.

Cheetah: The cheetah on show is male 'Kasai'. Female 'Tosca' died at the end of last year. I believe they are hoping to get a new female.
 
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