Berlin Tierpark Tierpark Berlin news

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I guess you already know you may even leave the park later (in fact you may stay there as long as you wish for as far as I know) ;) Some of the animals are locked away quite late and with some I am not even sure if they are locked away at all. I hardly ever had to make use of the revoving doors, but even for someone who can return very ferquently it is always a nice feeling/ thought that you CAN stay as long as you wish.
 
I just heard that the gerenuks came both from LA and San Diego. Does any one know more about these two groups and whether/ in how far they are genetically related to each other?
 
Two of the gerenuks have been on the big enclosure. It is the pair that has been watched mating before hand (at least the male one shows strong interest). They also have been watched feeding in their characteristic way. I have seen some really nice Pictures!!!
 
The financial director (I hope this is the correct term) of both Zoo and Tierpark, Gabriele Thöne, steps down and more or less directly criticizes Blaszkiewitz. She doesn't see how she can productively work together with him (even though she doesn't mention his name, she clearly refers to her only colleague at this administrative level). Her direct predecessor also stepped down after similar quarrels with Blaszkiewitz. The leader of the supporters of Tierpark and Zoo, Ziolko, now calls for a completely new administration (which is another clear blow at Blaszkiewitz). The supporters also had some quarrels with Blaszkiewitz in recent years and months and they (like Thöne) had more or less directly called for a new director when Blaszkiewitz was criticised because of his Treatment of staff. Thöne also wrote a letter to all staff members where she explains her motives and explicitly mentions that she wants all staff to know how much she appreciates what they do and that she will try to strengthen their public recognition in the future.

Politicians had asked for Blaszkiewitz to be released before (especially so in recent months) and his strongest critic, Claudia Hämmerling, immediately expressed regret that the wrong director stepped down whereas she clearly blames Blaszkiewitz for this decision.

I think he will have to go 2014 when his contract runs out or even before that. For the time being no politician, member of staff, or local journalist speaks out FOR him, but many express more or less direct criticism.
 
Taisha said:
Sooty Mangabey,

I am waiting for your comment as expert for the Berlin Tierpark!
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Kifaru Bwana said:
Somehow, I would say markmeier is ... :D
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KB: The reason that Taisha wrote this is that, in the past, I have taken umbrage at what I have seen as her (?) unfairly negative attitude towards Bernard Blaszkiewitz. I think the implication is that this latest news from Berlin vindicates that negativity. In her description of me as the "expert for the Berlin Tierpark" she is being wholly ironic. I am certainly no "expert" in the manner of Mark Meier, but I do, especially, love the Tierpark, and visit it as often as is possible.

My own feelings, for what they are worth, are that seeing Blaszkiewitz's opponents - the politicians, the disgruntled staff, the zoo insiders and outsiders - going after him is akin to watching small dogs baiting a tethered bear. He is a very easy target, and, as always when someone is in a high-profile position, small things get presented in a heavily "spun" manner. For example, a recent article in the German press criticised him for using an old-fashioned typewriter. Anyone who runs a large organisation is going to have employees who do not see eye-to-eye with them. The alacrity with which those employees voice their feelings to the press says more about their shortcomings than they do about their erstwhile boss.

I have never worked with Blaszkiewitz, so I cannot comment from personal experience on what he is like to work with; however, those I know who do work at the two Berlin zoos are fond of him and respectful towards him. I am sure there are others who are not. Whenever I have met him, he has been utterly charming. But most important of all, he took over the running of the Tierpark at a time when it could, very easily, have been run into the ground and, over the past two decades, he has overseen its development as one of the major European zoos. This is not the time to repeat the arguments about the quality of the monkey house, or the carnivore cages, or whatever. What is indisputable is that whoever does succeed Blaszkiewitz, when he eventually goes (and I obviously very much hope that his departure comes when he wants it, rather than being forced upon him) will be inheriting a zoo in which there is not a great deal wrong that can't be put right very easily (especially now that the development of the Brehm House is well underway). At the Tierpark alone they will inherit probably the best collection of animals in a European zoo (however unPC that may be to say).

The extent to which Blaszkiewitz has brought in species that would otherwise not be seen in European zoos, the extent to which he has been massively ambitious in the way in which both the Zoo and the Tierpark have developed, physically, over the past decades, and the extent to which he has demonstrated that zoos can thrive if they present themselves as serious-minded institutions (rather than as theme-park playgrounds with animals attached) - for all of these I think we should be grateful. I will be very sad when Blaszkiewitz does, eventually, leave his position at the helm of the Berlin zoos.
 
It definitely goes against the prevailing ZooChat grain to say positive things about Berlin and its director, so sooty's post will, I expect, attract flack.

I fell in love with both Berlin zoos on my only visits there in 1997 and would love the chance to get back soon. The potential that Berlin has on its two sites in my opinion could only be equalled within Europe by a certain establishment in SE England!!

I will only say this much; most top zoo directors have been dictators, intolerant of criticism, and unwilling to compromise.
 
@Sooty: I agree, even if I think that Blaszkiewitz clearly did not do everything right (Ian R Robinson may well be right about good directors and some of their fallacies, though). Many people who criticize Blaszkiewitz don't even have a clue what he actually did improve. I am tired of repeating it, but anyone who cares about the Tierpark and ist history knows this very well. By the way: In my opinion the monkey building is mostly criticized because of the way the animals are presented not the way they are kept. The enclosures are better furnished by now as well. Most inside enclosures in other zoos (if visible for the visitors or not) probably are not any better, some rather worse. And he certainly cannot be blamed for the architecture of the pachydermy building or the Brehm building (although less cats would mean more space in this case).
 
Well, Blaszkiewitz has been director of the Tierpark for 20+ years and during most of that time, he had ample funds from the Stiftung Klassenlotterie to invest. It would be terrible if he hadn`t archieved anything in that time. OF COURSE he did improve a lot. Sadly things could be much, much better today if had a more modern approach to animal husbandry and presentation. As it is now, most of what he build, especially for the hoofstock, is ok for the animals (even though it could be better), but very boring for most visitors. He didn`t build the Pachyderm house, true, but he failed to come up with any solution to the lack of space or the lack of safety for the elephant keepers in there.

Fact is, he has now lost all support from the press and politicans, even from those who backed him for at least 5 years through all scandals. Which is not surprising given his "utterly charming" habit to yell at journalists who ask questions he deems inapt. And that is not new and has nothing to do with the pressure he is under due to the negative press in the last few years. I read the first article where a journalist expressed his "surprise" at Blaszkiewitz`s manners years ago at the very beginning of the first scandal (2007?). There are not few institutions that depend more on public approval then zoos. Blaszkiewitz has totally and utterly failed in this regard. Being charming to zoo enthusiasts who worship the ground he walks on is not enough.

What concerned me most, though, is his complete and total disregard for animal welfare. He is STILL doing business with animal dealers. The Tierpark is famous for rare species and subspecies, and there is nothing wrong with that - but Blaszkiewitz also breeds many generic hybrids, and sees nothing wrong in repeated inbreeding over serveral generations which results in animals that can`t be placed in reputable zoos. The number of animals he sold to the infamous dealer Bode is mind-blowing. Giraffes, black panthers, highly inbred lions, hyenas, maquaces are just some species that come to my mind. Some of them surely went to reputable smaller zoos, but a lot of them just vanished - circusses, third world countries, third class zoos in southerrn Europe?? Heck, the authorities actually had to FORBID the zoo to produce any more lions in the zoo with the current pair (full siblings that produced around a dozend cubs, most of which were very sickly and died soon - the only survivor was shipped off to South America). Not to forget the elephant calves he sent off very young to Rostov in Russia to live without any adults in a terrible provisory enclosure because the new elephant house wasn`t ready. One of them now lives all on his own in the scandal zoo of Kiew and has zero chance to get a companion in the next years. But these calves were un-placeable in reputable zoos because Blaszkiewitz doesn`t want to be part of the EEP so that he can do whatever he sees fit without any interference. It`s just the animals that have to suffer.
 
Perhaps we forget how Tierpark looked 20 years ago and how very different it is now.Perhaps we forget the ability of certain key individuals within Berlins zoos to maintain not one,but two,of the worlds great zoos in one city.Perhaps some germans have forgot how fortunate they are to have collections such as these...over 2400 species available for the delectation of over 4million visitors.Hannover,Gelsenkirchen...is that what you want?
 
@Tim Brown.

I can't speak for other members here, but some of them like Hannover and Zoom, some don't, but I what I can say is-I want to see animals in the best possible exhibts with the best possible human care in a zoo-the Zoos have the responsibility for their animals- so there is nothing wrong with better enclosures for the animals instead of a large"collection".

By the way, I prefer the term"Animal inventory"instead of using the term"collction" when it Comes to Zoos.

"Collection" comes from the times, when Zoodirectors really have"collected"species like stamps-you can collect stamps,books,toys and something else-but you can't collect animals !Fortunately, the old times are gone-we now have much better Zoos and no longer outdated institutions with endless rows of Cages with as many diffrent species as possible. Who wants to see the old London Zoo with its former enormous, giant "collection" in all the old small, empty Cages and houses ? Is that what you want to see again ? Instead of the Tigers are now in their huge, new "Territory" and not anymore in a small Cage in a terrible old lion house together with countless other cats ?Or the Gorillas in their"Kingdom" on grass, with space and trees ?

Today the zoo are optical much better than before and, whats more important, with much better living conditions for the animals, which have to spend their live in the zoo.

So you can be happy to see in Britain so many large elephant Paddocks with elephants on natural grounds in natural social herds wihout ANY contact to humans-I think, you know how are the elephants are be kept at Tierpark Berlin.....

So a really good zoo is a zoo with less animals, but better and bigger exhibits. Berlin is the last german City with two traditional"Collections" and it is clear to me, many zoofriends are love both facilties for that, but sometimes I got the impression, a large"collection" with as many as possible"rare"species is more important to them than a good care in for the animals good exhibits . Of course I also like to see uncommon animals and species-but not when they are kept in bad exhibits-and we all know,that epecially the hoofstock encloures, the big cat enclourses (Cages), elephant and rhinos, manatees, small carnivours and all bear exhibits at the Tierpark are miles away to be really good exhibits -for diffrent reasons. I think, ist not necessary to discuss this fact here again.

I've seen so may Zoos in my life, many of them with impressive animal inventories and lots of rarities, but unfortunately in really poor conditions.

I hope,and I belive it, should be there a Change of the Zoodirector in Berlin next year, both"collections"will be made smaller and many species have to go-the younger generation of zoodirectors think more modern of how animals should be kept nowadays in a zoo of the 21th.century ( if they havn't learned their job at Berlin, of course ! )-hopefully-in the interest of the remaining animals.Less species doesn't mean less"quality"in the animal inventory-there are so many examples for that.

So I would'nt name Tierpark Berlin as one of the worlds great Zoos-it could be one of them-but not with the present director.

A Zoofriend should't judge a Zoo only by its"collection"-or I'm wrong with that ? And everybody here should be honest-makes the import of two pairs of Gerenuks to europe sense ? Not for my opinion-first fact is-both pairs have to share in Change the only exhibit-thats not in the sense of a good care for the animals.I don't know the future plans, if both pairs will stay at Berlin, but the present Situation is not good for the animals.

The males can see the other through the fence-this is a very stressful Situation for both. If the younger male grows, both will fight through the fence, and unfortuantely, there are no hiding places, no trees,nothing in this exhibit for a hard to Keep species like Gerenuks.They live in thornbush savannahs in the wild with lots of hiding places.I guess, nobody cares, because at last, gerenuks are back in europe after 34 years...

What was the reason to import them ? Just to add another rare species to the"collection"or to save an endangered species ? I don't think, they can't grow up a Population out of only two pairs, which are also totally inbred animals, but I'm really curious, if the Animalpark will raise the Youngsters natural or artificial, like they do it in Los Angeles.

I can tell you, which Import was really important and senseful,-the pair of Okapis recently arrrived at Basle-they bring new blood to the now fortunately slowly growing Population of Okapis in europe-this makes sense to me-not the Gerenuks.
 
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What concerned me most, though, is his complete and total disregard for animal welfare. He is STILL doing business with animal dealers.
a lot of them just vanished - circusses, third world countries, third class zoos in southerrn Europe??


Most german Zoos are still doing Business with animal dealers,- you can't run a zoo without them-and many of them also have worked with Bode-also a lot of the large Zoos, and don't forget where all the animals in the Zoos today orginally came from-from Animal Dealers like Ruhe or Hagenbeck...: And Berlin Tierpark isn't the only zoo who sells animals to circusses or Zoos in"third world"countries...
 
Tim Brown said:
Perhaps we forget how Tierpark looked 20 years ago and how very different it is now
Perhaps some germans have forgot how fortunate they are to have collections such as these...over 2400 species available for the delectation of over 4million visitors.
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Zoo visitors (at least among ZooChatters) seem to be divided into two groups: Those who are "collectors" themselves and therefore rave about the sheer amount of animals in a zoo collection, although they may often not even have had the time, to take a closer look at most animals during their visits.
And there are others, who want to see zoo animals in adequate surroundings, observe as much natural behaviour of a specie as possible and are keen on identifying individual personalities.
I am afraid, this gap can never be bridged.

I did not have the chance to visit the Tierpark 20 years ago, but it makes you wonder, when you meet again and again people who won't stop to praise the former director Dathe about what he had accomplished, having much less financial support than the Tierpark after the fall of the wall.
 
Taisha said:
Zoo visitors (at least among ZooChatters) seem to be divided into two groups: Those who are "collectors" themselves and therefore rave about the sheer amount of animals in a zoo collection, although they may often not even have had the time, to take a closer look at most animals during their visits.
And there are others, who want to see zoo animals in adequate surroundings, observe as much natural behaviour of a specie as possible and are keen on identifying individual personalities.
I am afraid, this gap can never be bridged.
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As someone who does like to see a large variety of animals on my visits, I find this rather offensive, implying as it does that such popele do not care about the conditions of the animals. And seeing different behaviours is part of the appeal of seeing different animals. And to suggest that people fall neatly into those two camps is unbelievably simplistic. Why does the fact that people enjoy the aspects of zoo visiting in different amounts tell you that one group does not care? The fact that different people enjoy different things is part of what makes life interesting. There is no-one on here I have seen who does not seem to care about the animals - I suspect if they really didn't they would not last long.

Look at it this way - with my Devil's Advocate hat on, I could say:

"There are two groups of zoochatters - one would be happy with only one or two species in zoos and no others so long as they could know the names of the all the individuals and go and see them every week.
And there are others who enjoy the endless variety of the animal kingdom, who are interested in every facet of every group of animals, and who want as many species as possible to be studied, conserved and available for everyone to view in our zoologicial institutions."

But I wouldn't, outside of hypothesis, because it's arrant nonsense. As is the mirror-image you posted above.

There's a reasonable debate to be had here, but please don't start it by belittling people, or why they enjoy going to the zoo.


Bib Fortuna said:
"Collection" comes from the times, when Zoodirectors really have"collected"species like stamps-you can collect stamps,books,toys and something else-but you can't collect animals !
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The word 'collection' just means 'a gathering together' - you can have a collection of people or of debris in the U-bend pipe - it's perfectly applicable to the 'gathered together' animals at a zoo.

To my ear, 'inventory' sounds a bit too much like assets of a business, as does 'stocklist', though to a lesser degree. Maybe we need a new word! :D
 
I totally agree, Maguari, There is, sad to say, a dreadfully self-righteous streak in SOME posters.

It seems that anyone who suggests that a major city zoo should aim to have a wide cross-section of species and to actively seek out the rare and the unusual is liable to be branded as some sort of welfare-indifferent crank.

My criticism of East Berlin would not be that it keeps too much, but that it has made too little use of its ample area. It certainly isn't unique in that regard, however; look at Whipsnade!
 
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IanRRobinson said:
I totally agree, Maguari, There is, sad to say, a dreadfully self-righteous streak in SOME posters.

It seems that anyone who suggests that a major city zoo should aim to have a wide sross-section of species and to actively seek out the rare and the unusual is liable to be branded as some sort of welfare-indifferent crank.

My criticism of East Berlin would not be that it keeps too much, but that it has made too little use of its ample area. It certainly isn't unique in that regard, however; look at Whipsnade!
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Fair enough, just that money and funding is not exactly what Tierpark Berlin had or has in copious amounts. If Tierpark where funded to the tune of say Zoo Leipzig ... it would be a zoofan-tastic showcase that would be the envy of the entire zoo world. As it is, it has a very large park, a very representative collection of species and rare species to that in a more or less arranged order (Pachyderm area, hoofstock yards African, Asian precinct hoofstock et cetera) AND most funding secured by Dr. Blaszkiewitz through the Klassenlotterie.

On the other hand, the Berlin City Council has more or less abandoned its top zoos. Where it funds a given museum to the tune of 33mio a year, the Zoo and Tierpark only get 6mio (and that just to keep Tierpark going). For an institution that has a clear conservation education role I find that small tuppence and beyond the absurd. Also you have a boulevard press in Berlin that has been slandering Dr. Blaszkiewitz in ways that would put Rupert Murdoch be a paragon of piety. Now, I will not agree with everything the esteemed gentleman has done for Tierpark Berlin, but I will say that it is largely thanks to his efforts that it still exists (as when / if the politicians and boulevard press would have it Tierpark Berlin would have gone down the sinker long ago). And that in itself would put the park set up after the WII in politically incorrect DDR (well too many ..) and the expert guidance and directorship of Dr. Dathe really to shame. As it is Tierpark Berlin is around and I am fully convinced there is room enough to pool 2 zoos in the good city of Berlin. Amen!
 
I have met Dr. Blaszkiewitz and he's fantastic! I sure hope he survives this crisis. Tim Brown is right, he has led these 2 great zoos through some very turbulent periods, so he deserves patience. Maybe some changes need to be made, but firing Dr. Blaszkiewitz is not one of the changes that are needed.

On the other hand, I have no idea what Tim Brown is talking about regarding Zoom and Hannover -- both are among the best zoos I have ever seen! Wonderful geographic theming at both of them.
 
Bib Fortuna said:
Who wants to see the old London Zoo with its former enormous, giant "collection" in all the old small, empty Cages and houses ? Is that what you want to see again ? Instead of the Tigers are now in their huge, new "Territory" and not anymore in a small Cage in a terrible old lion house together with countless other cats ?Or the Gorillas in their"Kingdom" on grass, with space and trees ?
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Labelling the tiger and gorilla enclosures as "territory" or "kingdom" is purely a marketing ploy, designed to steer the average visitor away from terms that might be seen to be toxic in the C21st - specifically, "cage". But if a rose by any other name would smell as sweet, so too with these, erm, enclosures - it would be truly naive to see them as anything fundamentally different to what has gone before. I'm not sure that there is any substantive difference between the gorilla enclosure at London Zoo and that at Berlin Zoo (not Tierpark, the initial subject of this thread, I appreciate) - an enclosure expanded over recent years under the watch of nasty old Dr Blaszkiewitz.


Bib Fortuna said:
So a really good zoo is a zoo with less animals, but better and bigger exhibits.
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I've seen plenty of crappy zoos with small collections. I feel you're conflating two issues here: the size of the collection, and the quality of the way in which that collection is maintained. The dichotomy between good, smaller zoos, and big, not-so-good zoos is a false one.


Taisha said:
Zoo visitors (at least among ZooChatters) seem to be divided into two groups: Those who are "collectors" themselves and therefore rave about the sheer amount of animals in a zoo collection, although they may often not even have had the time, to take a closer look at most animals during their visits.
And there are others, who want to see zoo animals in adequate surroundings, observe as much natural behaviour of a specie as possible and are keen on identifying individual personalities.
I am afraid, this gap can never be bridged.
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Got it in one! It's a combination of short-sightedness, ignorance, cruelty and stupidity that causes people to hold a view that is different to that which you hold.

As others have said above, really Taisha - this level of argument is beneath you!
 
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