Has the Hen harrier still a change in England ?

Failed due to cold wet weather, hopefully they will they be saved by global warming.
 
H'mm. The problem is pretty simple - gamekeepers

Hen Harriers in the UK seem to need moorland - why, I don't know. If they'd get themselves used to nesting in fields of crops they would save themselves a lot of trouble.

The continuing and illegal persecution this raptor receives is a matter of deep shame to me as an English wildlife conservationist. How are we supposed to persuade farmers in Tanzania to tolerate Lions when we as nation can't overlook Red Grouse being predated by a harrier?
 
IanRRobinson said:
H'mm. The problem is pretty simple - gamekeepers

Hen Harriers in the UK seem to need moorland - why, I don't know. If they'd get themselves used to nesting in fields of crops they would save themselves a lot of trouble.

The continuing and illegal persecution this raptor receives is a matter of deep shame to me as an English wildlife conservationist. How are we supposed to persuade farmers in Tanzania to tolerate Lions when we as nation can't overlook Red Grouse being predated by a harrier?
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You could expand the list by golden eagle, sea eagle and quite a few other raptors that are still illegally persecuted mainly by the countryside fraternity with interests in red grouse, capercaillie et cetera. It is indeed a crying shame.

Alas, we seem to have a similar issue with persecution of raptors in the Netherlands, however this time not tied with grouse or anything. Just folks who destroy nests, take eggs and/or illegally kill raptors, mainly hawks and buzzards and the like.
 
IanRRobinson said:
Hen Harriers in the UK seem to need moorland - why, I don't know. If they'd get themselves used to nesting in fields of crops they would save themselves a lot of trouble.
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Nesting in crops can bring its own problems too- as Montagu's Harrier has faced. One is that some farmers are reluctant to leave aside a small part of a field undisturbed or uncut while they are nesting. Another is that some crops grow too tall and wet weather can weight it down, so burying the nest.
 
I find the persecution by game keepers to be perplexing as Hen Harriers (or Northern Harriers as we call them over here) eat an overwhelmingly mammalian diet particularly mice and voles. I can't even picture one taking an adult Red Grouse (Willow Ptarmigan).
 
Ituri said:
I find the persecution by game keepers to be perplexing as Hen Harriers (or Northern Harriers as we call them over here) eat an overwhelmingly mammalian diet particularly mice and voles. I can't even picture one taking an adult Red Grouse (Willow Ptarmigan).
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Shameless ignorance ... as the real facts are often not taken in by gamekeepers. Similarly, when wolves and/or lynx start recolonizing Western Europe you would not begin to understand the frequent misconceptions (informed) people have on both species. The Red Riding Hood syndrome looms large ..., and sadly very little of that is really the truth and nothing but the truth.
 
Ituri said:
I find the persecution by game keepers to be perplexing as Hen Harriers (or Northern Harriers as we call them over here) eat an overwhelmingly mammalian diet particularly mice and voles. I can't even picture one taking an adult Red Grouse (Willow Ptarmigan).
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Current thinking seems to have elevated the Nearctic birds (hudsonius) to full species so "Northern Harrier" would be the name for that form, leaving the British and Irish stuck with that horrible pejorative - it really doesn't help persuade keepers to leave this species alone.

I think on some moors they will take a fair number of grouse chicks - they are managed to produce a lot of Red Grouse so you can hardly blame the harriers for exploiting that surplus.

We desperately need vicarious liability in English law for wildlife crimes - ie the landowner is responsible for acts committed by gamekeepers. Our Conservative led Government, with a field sports enthusiast Environment Minister won't do that. I leave you to draw your own conclusions.
 
IanRRobinson said:
I think on some moors they will take a fair number of grouse chicks - they are managed to produce a lot of Red Grouse so you can hardly blame the harriers for exploiting that surplus.
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It is the small Grouse chick predation that leads them into so-called disrepute. They couldn't manage to catch or carry anything much larger than a small chick I don't think. It is a crazy situation in this day and age, that one of our rarest breeding birds struggles to survive in the UK because of outdated and longheld antipathy towards birds of prey generally, on certain shooting estates.
 
As I am a long way away I dont have first hand knowledge, but have read about it. I have not seen any proof in any articles of any group being responsible for this breeding failure. It seems to me blaming game keepers is the easy option when you want to blame someone.

BBC News - Hen harriers 'face extinction' in England, says RSPB

And the Moorland Association pointed out that some grouse moor managers, including one responsible for land next to the ill-fated nesting site in Northumberland, were protecting grouse populations by providing nearby hen harriers with alternative food sources.
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"A very late and cold winter will have affected breeding patterns," association chairman Robert Benson added, describing the failure of the two hen harrier pairs to breed as disappointing.
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Monty said:
As I am a long way away I dont have first hand knowledge, but have read about it. I have not seen any proof in any articles of any group being responsible for this breeding failure. It seems to me blaming game keepers is the easy option when you want to blame someone.
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That is true in this instance- neither failure has been blamed on any form of persecution. However one still occasionally sees reports of a Hen Harrier caught in a gin trap, or being shot, so there is still a modicum of feeling against them in certain circles.
 
Of course it doesn't have to be the gamekeeper who sets the traps, or lays the poison, anyone with a grudge against the field/shooting fraternity can do the dirty work then blame the game keeper.

It strikes me as odd that the dead birds are found, not by the people responsible, but by those with an interest in banning shooting, in what could be the proverbial needle in the haystack scenario. I know I'm a sceptic,:eek: but sometimes I think things are just too conveniently clean cut at first glance.

I don't class all Gamekeepers as killers I know some who are doing a great job on lowland estates with grey partridge and other ground nesting birds. One local estate has put up owl boxes for instance to encourage Barn owls and give them protection from the winters as well nesting places.
 
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