Years ago people thought the earth was flat, historically lots of mistakes have been made at Twycross Zoo however its what happens know that's important. The current incumbents have allot to do and not enough resource or time in which to do it. Sight of the plan would be great but I fear it doesn't exist, a lot of know jerking is going on, what looks a mess fix it etc. This will empty the bank quickly and not lead to more visitors etc. I made the comment a while ago about big zoos taking over, the likes of TZ are turning off visitors by the dozen, compare their trip adviser to Chester or YWP. They need to get a grip quick or the Zoo is history in my opinion I would stress.
Twycross Zoo Twycross Zoo news 2013 #3
- Thread starter labrat
- Start date
Do you mean 'knee-jerk' reaction here?
I think the main problem at Twycross is the way they have inherited all those ugly brick Ape buildings and older blocks of Monkey enclosures which dominate most of the Zoo. Two other Zoos with a similar-sized layout are Jersey and Banham, yet both have far more attractive grounds and feel and the buildings are far less invasive,- whereas at Twycross its still mostly stark brickwalls and windows, wire mesh cages and flat lawns. It reminds me rather of a children's model toy layout of a Zoo from the 1960's era. Its virtually impossible to change that without destroying everything that is there and starting anew!
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Although as you'll see above, I have been critical of some of the previous owner's policies, overall I think often the worst thing that can happen to a Zoo is if it falls out of private ownership into the hands of a trust or joint organisational committee which then continues to run it. These amalgamations often don't work well as they don't have the vision or drive of the founders. I feel Marwell has exhibited a rather similar lack of direction in recent years.
Jersey somehow managed to avoid this pitfall, perhaps because Durrell's message and aims were so clearcut, whereas Twycross and Marwell's were less so. Also Durrell still have Lee Durrell as an active figurehead there.
Jersey somehow managed to avoid this pitfall, perhaps because Durrell's message and aims were so clearcut, whereas Twycross and Marwell's were less so. Also Durrell still have Lee Durrell as an active figurehead there.
This is an interesting point. I think Mr Durrell had the advantage of not being as closely tied to Jersey Zoo as Mr Aspinall, Mr Knowles and the Misses Badham and Evans were to their zoos. He had to go away to do his writing and his media work, so that the day-to-day administration of the Zoo and the Trust had to be done by others. He set the parameters and built up a team he could trust to run things the right way. I agree that Dr Lee Durrell has had a very important role, but so did Jeremy Mallinson.
I think the same sort of thing applies to Sir Peter Scott at WWT. The range of sites around the country always needed a team to manage them, including people like Prof Matthews (who died recently) and Dr Janet Kear, so Sir Peter was able to retire gracefully.
At Chester the appointment of Dr Michael Brambell, a very experienced zoo professional from London Zoo, after the death of Mr Mottershead was, I think, a very good one. The vision and experience of the Trustees is always crucial in these circumstances.
Alan
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I believe that they should have retired earlier, because they didn't share some of the modern zoo ideas that was being thought of at the later stage of their careers, like captive breeding and conservation. They kept non breeding elephants for God sake. If a new director had taken over earlier then some of the problems we have now wouldn't be here.
sooty mangabey
Well-Known Member
While I share the general sentiment - that Twycross's founders stayed at the helm long after they should have passed the wheel on to someone else - the keeping of 'non breeding elephants' is possibly the least of their "crimes" - until recently, the majority of elephants in this country were kept with no view as to their breeding.
Yeah but Molly ran the zoo until around 2000. Don't tell me that zoo's didn't want to breed elephants then!
I totally agree with Pertinax that the root of today`s problems is that Ms. Badham and Ms. Evans "never got around" to modernize the enclosures/housing and continued to build brick houses with minimal indoor facilities, despite full bank accounts. The management that followed surely made many mistakes, but what the old ladies left was and still is *very* difficult to work with, unless you tear it all down and start anew. What Ms. Badham and Ms. Evans built and how they managed their animals was surely modern and appropriate in the 60'th and 70'th, but they totally lost touch with all developments in animal welfare and modern zoo management after that.
IanRRobinson
Well-Known Member
Twycross stood still for many years I think. That's always a problem; you end up going backwards. The Ape houses - Green Mile doubtless excepted - probably looked good in the early 1970s, when Great Apes were kept on concrete at London. Dudley and Bristol. Anthony Smith's "Animals on View", written in 1976, talked about how exciting it was to see primates kept on grass.
Unfortunately, the world moved on, and Twycross didn't.
Unfortunately, the world moved on, and Twycross didn't.
mazfc
Well-Known Member
Yassa's view here pretty much sums up my own opinions too.
IMO that's the crux of most of Twycross' problems, both past and present.
As has been mentioned, around 2000, there were very few zoos keeping elephants in breeding or potential breeding situations. Colchester & even Whipsnade had only just started to, whilst London, Dudley, Paignton, Bristol, Blackpool(?) all only held females. Today the only other 2 holding them in a breeding situation are Howletts and Chester in addition to the first two mentioned and Port Lympne appear to have stopped, so it was more the norm 15 years ago. (haven't considered safari parks here, as not necessarily relevant).
I agree that Twycross' problem is that it has stood still whilst other zoos have built more modern faclities for their apes to highlight the problem. In the 70s & even beyond the Twycross ape enclosures really were actually far better than most.
I agree that Twycross' problem is that it has stood still whilst other zoos have built more modern faclities for their apes to highlight the problem. In the 70s & even beyond the Twycross ape enclosures really were actually far better than most.[/QUOTE]
I'll have to do a bit for research before saying things
. It surprises me, it just shows how we have come on leaps and bounds in the zoological world.
I'll have to do a bit for research before saying things
. It surprises me, it just shows how we have come on leaps and bounds in the zoological world.One of the other problems is that Apes, of which Twycross have a lot, need strong and substantial housing which always conflicts with the aesthetic appeal of any design for them. So they often resemble(or they used to) the most 'prison-like' of Zoo buildings. Most zoos have maybe one or two 'Ape' Houses whereas at Twycross they are far more noticeable as there are still at least six and the Green mile area was until recently a seventh in what is a relatively small Zoo land area-wise.
Often such buildings look innovative or at least modern when first built but after a while begin to look very dated. That's when its time to move on and build afresh with new designs. Twycross didn't do that, each time they built a new Ape house, they repeated the initial design, with small variations, so all those houses now look similarly old-fashioned.
zoogiraffe
Well-Known Member
Actually I heard Molly saying that they didn't need to bred Elephants again as they had already done it twice!
This is totally the opposite to what modern zoo should think. But that was, I guess, the opinions at the time.
But that was, I guess, the opinions at the time.
No it wasn't. Just hers.
I think it should be remembered that Twycross had two baby elephants born on 1998, Tara and Karishma, they were fathered by Chang at Chester, where Tonzi and Minbu were sent to mate, they were born four years before Whipsnade had their first Asian elephant birth, and as for Miss Badham apparently stating that two baby elephants were enough, I dispute this, this is CERTAINLY NOT what she told me in 2002, she had plans to have Noor Jahan mated also, as she did not want to deny her the opportunity of being a mother. She also told me that the elephant group would never be split up, which did not happen under her strong direction, unfortunately Karishma was parted from her family in 2006 and sent to Whipsnade, actions which go against the rule of splitting up a cow elephant and her female calf. Miss Badham also told me that the elephants would never leave Twycross as they were the most popular animals in the zoo with the visitors, just like elephants, I also have a good memory, it is very easy to knock somebody when they are not even alive to defend themselves.
I also heard the same thing from other very reliable sources within Zoo-Elephant-keeping circles at the time, that the two breeding females from Twycross would not be returned to Chester for a second breeding. As for Noorjahan, its quite possible there were plans to allow her to be a mother- again once also.
I have no wish to speak ill of the dead- simply clarifying what the situation was with the elephants at that time.