Zooman September 2013 European Zoo tour

I am curious have you seen Gondwanaland in person? Would you agree with my observations f the animal exhibits?

I know this question wasn’t addressed to me but I agree with your comments about Gondwanaland.

In another thread, about two years ago, I wrote the following:-

To be fair, Gondwanaland is a very impressive structure, attractively landscaped and beautifully planted - and I expect it will look better in a few years once the vegetation has matured.

However, for such a large, expensive development there are not many animals to see and, although the individual enclosures look superficially attractive amongst all the luxuriant vegetation, some of them are actually quite small.

Personally I prefer to see animals like guenons, small cats, Malayan tapirs and pygmy hippos with access to outdoor enclosures, instead of being kept permanently indoors.

However I must add that, overall, I do like Leipzig Zoo very much (the pangolin and quoll being particular favourites of mine).

Incidentally, I'm glad you included Hamburg in your itinerary.....
 
sooty mangabey;Hannover said:
Vive la difference[/I]!

Really!

Of course you are right, and thank god that we are all different :)
 
I know this question wasn’t addressed to me but I agree with your comments about Gondwanaland.

In another thread, about two years ago, I wrote the following:-



However I must add that, overall, I do like Leipzig Zoo very much (the pangolin and quoll being particular favourites of mine).

Incidentally, I'm glad you included Hamburg in your itinerary.....

I am glad that you also saw what l saw in Gondwanaland!

Thank you sooo much for Hamburg it really was a great day, l loved the huge aviary with Scarlett Macaw, about 1 hour in total watching them flying was beutifull and so rare to see. Then Hanover had 8 in there bird presentation show! Fling around the stage and audience, l took the attached pic at Hamburg I think it shows very clearly how so many places stop birds from flying!
 

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Hanover today OMG what a brilliant zoo for families and the general zoo visitor, also for most of the animals!

Snow leopard you just have to go, the attention to detail in the design and themeing of exhibits is very I impressive, I went on the boat ride 3 times!

Yukon Bay is just brilliant in so many ways as well, again l will write a more detailed review later.

I will say now Hanover Zoo IMHO, is the best zoo in the world for families and the average zoo visitor! I did not want to leave, my camera actually went flat for the first time ever!

Interestingly enough ZooChatter Allen Nyhuis (co-author of "America's Best Zoos") has visited around 60+ major European zoos in the past few years and he also raved about Hannover. He said that it is quite possibly on the edge of being one of Europe's 10 best zoological parks, and he also agreed with you in that Frankfurt has many outdated exhibits and is an old-fashioned zoo.

Yet again we all are fortunate enough to have a thread on this forum that showcases the strong differences that folks feel about specific zoos. For example while some bash the Berlin Tierpark endlessly others rate it as the best thing since sliced bread; and while still others have no use for Hannover there are those that consider it one of the world's great zoos. Vive la diffference, indeed!
 
Probably they love Hannover because of the immersion which is very very well done (but you pay the price for that on the entrance). I also really liked Africa, although sometimes enclosures are to small and many parts of yukon bay (exept enclosures for smaller animals as squirrels and snowy owls, which are way to small). But I really disliked the Asian section, where the immersion covers some really bad exhibits (tiger and leopard: way to small, elephant and langur: way to boring). Australia is fine, but literally ALL enclosures for primates are below standard....
 
The criticism of Leipzig and Berlin and Praha was somewhat harsh I believe. I would certainly count those over and above some of the other zoos you visited. And believe me, we do have a lot of zoo history to go with all these zoos. You visited Praha at a bad time since the lower area had been re-flooded just prior to your visit and rebuilding has only just started (this after the last disaster of 2002 which had a huge impact).
 
Hamburg Zoo,

What a treat and l nearly missed it!

A expensive zoo $25 Euro plus parking $3.50, however worth every cent!

Entering through the entrance, not the grand original entrance located inside the park. You are greeted by attendants dressed in smart coordinated pants, sports coat and hat, very formal compared with all other zoos. I think this makes a great impression for zoo visitors that his place is something special.

After entering l first encountered the confronting sight of about 8 Asian elephants 3-50 years old all being fed by the public, they were all lined up very orderly stretching out over a moat, to be fed by the public, who had purchased food from a vendor closer to the entrance to the zoo, l had noticed this but was genuinely unsure of what they were doing, it is staffed by volunteers and had no signs in English.

The public were loving this the elephants loved it as a treat and thee were 2 keepers standing back from the elephants making sure they remained orderly and that a couple of much younger elephants did not access the food given by the public.

It turned out that there were at least 10 other exhibits around the zoo that you could feed the animals, mostly farm animals but also baboons!

The zoo is very well laid out in a numbered fashion and you simply follow the signs numbered 1 -80, I really liked the concept and so did allot of the families that l overheard.

The next exhibit of note was the giant otter exhibit, such a disappointment to see these great animals in a small exhibit with a small pool!

The zoo has allot of non access to the public grass areas, with all sorts of birds, small deer and rodents wandering around.

The walruses had a decent exhibit with great public viewing windows, the last walruses l saw was last year at a solitary animal in a small enclosure.

At Hamburg are two species and excellent viewing windows that really show how they are designed for sea not land! There was 1 there that seemed enormous! Amazing to observe l could have taxed for hours.

This polar area of the zoo is relatively new and okay for the walrus, the penguins are in very small areas, the seals also relatively small. It's the polar bears, that really have the worst new enclosure built this decade. It is really small no natural substrate and no area for hem to not be able to see each other. It is designed so you can sit and watch the walrus show and it true Hagenbeck style see the Polar Bear in the background. Just really disappointing the welfare of the bears was not considered......

A very large green winged macaw aviary with 20 birds was amazing to watch as they flew around the aviary! Interestingly they spent allot of time on the ground. I wish more zoos had this exhibit it really showed the birds very well, allot more inspiring that the clipped wings on a branch.....

The famous panorama shot of Flamingoes then Zebra then Lions was actually a little emotional to see, l can remember reading about this exhibit 35 ago!
I also remember being fascinated by the graphs in the book that showed that Mr Hagenbeck had measured how far and high each animal could go, and all this as visible at the zoo :)

The zoo has also spent resources on ensuring that many of the non animal views around the zoo were photogenic lakes and Asian themes ect.

The zoo does have plenty of faults but overall l had a ball and did not want to leave.
 
Arpenheul,

I think this was my fourth or fith visit, and l know that plenty has been written about this amazing place. I love it of course, the outdoor Gorilla exhibit is the best and with a large group of 15 gorillas with several young, shared with Patas and ?? The exhibit is very well used.

Some interesting points l learnt at the zoo.

The baby male Sifaka is doing very well as he was hand reared his mother has issues with milk, and the keepers did such an excellent job ensuring he was with his mum and dad at all opportunities that now he is about 7 months and when the keepers are in the enclosure he prefers to be with his parents rather than the keepers!

The two proboscis monkeys had arrived from Singapore, they are about half the size of the adult on exhibit and were not in the main exhibit. They seemed very relaxed and curious of there surroundings. The buzz of keepers and zoo staff around them was constant throughout the day. The exhaustive process that many people went through to get them to Arpenheul must be commended!

Interestingly given my other recent thread on animal enrichment, the Orangutans access to there outdoor area leads them to the ground not the tree tops, like many of the other primate access points.

The main cafeteria area has a problem with birds like most zoos, except at this zoo it's ducks! Not seagulls or pigeons and duck poo is really messy!

A great day and l have to include, l was offered a tour of behind the scenes of the gorilla exhibit at the end of the day, l had to think for about less than 1 second before deciding :)
 
Are you realy sure about the Green-winged macaws at Hamburg ;) ?
( enjoyed the day today realy.....thanks again ! )
 
l was offered a tour of behind the scenes of the gorilla exhibit at the end of the day, l had to think for about less than 1 second before deciding :)

Does Apenheul still have the very small indoor enclosures for the Gorillas? I know they have had problems with planning to allow them to have something bigger or better- it was a direct contrast to the huge outdoor area when I saw it.
 
@Pertinax, that building still stands... Although it is quite small in size, its design is very very smart, being it a circle ( so animals can't get trapped in a corner) and gorilla's always higher than keepers and visitors. Gorilla's are also not that active. Although it could be larger and use natural substrate...

But because of legislations there is only a certain area of Apenheul that is allowed to be "building" and they are already at their max, so not much opportunity for improving sizewise.
 
Does Apenheul still have the very small indoor enclosures for the Gorillas? I know they have had problems with planning to allow them to have something bigger or better- it was a direct contrast to the huge outdoor area when I saw it.

Nothing has changed, they are still talking about changes. The keeper and the animals have no problem with the enclosure as lint worm points out, fortunately it was built with a very good design.

Of course it could be bigger, but not a priority with the zoo.
 
Are you realy sure about the Green-winged macaws at Hamburg ;) ?
( enjoyed the day today realy.....thanks again ! )

Hi V,

It was great to meet you as well, your tour of the safari park was perfect, the small zoo after was a surprise !....
 
Safaripark Beekse Bergen

Firstly, what a difference it makes to get a guided tour thx V!

Arrived 9.30 am gates open at 10am....

First exhibit of note a display of animals, this would never happen in OZ! Staffed by volunteers a room set up to show people animal skulls, foetuses in Perspex boxes and young dead animals. It was all very educational but for a sensitive Australian, very unnecessary. But l did learn some things some things so not a total loss.

Then to the chimps, I think we counted 5 different enclosures and two groups with young, apparently some came from animal labs, however there was no mention of this on signage.

Signage is not a strong point of this place. The photos they used of different animals on signage, was definitely not professionally done, the pics of animals were very amateur in there quality and selection.

Great to see baboons in a huge mixed exhibit with african elephants.

Aviaries were all of a very simple and functional design. Green wire mesh sides and the roofs were of nylon netting, with all structural support poles dead tree posts.

The path we took was to walk up the left side of the zoo, where by chance most animals were nowhere o be seen, then we caught the safari bus driving through ungulate paddocks then into an area with about 15 giraffe then back to the main gate, can't help but feel that they were really trying to stretch out the amount of time spent on the bus, the kids on the bus loved it we were a bit bored.

Then we catch a boat up the other side of the zoo. After Hanover and Zoom l had a expectation of the boat and waterway. Totally wrong the boat had a capacity of about 120 and the waterway is huge!

Cruising up the waterway many various ungulates again with a highlight of some huge Ox! Also past a lemur island with the lemurs doing what lemurs do snoozing in the sun.

Then we stopped for lunch, so it's a Friday apparently a quiet day for the zoo. The food on offer in a huge cafe was low in variety and appearance and high in price!

We decided to have chips with peanut sauce and a piece of deep field chicken, a very local meal, still walking it off!

Cafe area overlooked a large lion enclosure, with a huge water moat, another zoo that could learn from Pilsen enclosure design.

Some large tiger enclosures, interestingly the trees in the exhibit had no hot wire or claw marks?

The zoo provides large areas to hyenas, cheetahs and wolf. Just a shame they all seemed just as bored as they do in small enclosures. The issue of enrichment and these animals has a long way to go. As l have suggested in another thread, we control breeding, food, reproduction so of course they look bored!

A great big heard of white rhinos a pleasure to see. One vantage point was from a raised walkway in a flamingo and hammerhead aviary, with the rhinos and the safari boat in the background very impressive. I was hoping to see the flamingoes fly, no such luck...

The 4 silverback gorillas from Apenheaul are all very settled in there large island enclosure mixed with black and white colobus. The indoor area was not huge but well furnished. Interestingly the island did not have electric fencing around any of the island.

Another great big chimp enclosure, with a public walkway bridge over part of it.

I liked the zoo but would probably not rush back.
 

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Pairi Daiza,

I had heard some good reports on this place ( its not a zoo) they have a small collection of primates, some interesting ungulates including some very active wildebeest. African and Asian elephants. Hippos, seals, cheetah a large reptile collection housed in a life size replica of aship and allot of birds.

Entrance fee is $24 + 6 so $30 Euro, not money well spent for a zoo enthusiast with a passion for primates and zoo design.

Pairi Daiza is apparently owned by one person who has built themselves a very fancy looking treehouse overlooking the zoo! ( He could be quite mad!) It appears that he has done very well out of the business as his reinvestment into the place has been in building some very large elaborate structures, the Asian temple area needs to be seen to believed, photos do not do it justice, it's huge and very well done if you like Asian temples!

The meerkats and small clawed otters who call it home have definitely missed out on being given space or interesting design, a real shame as there is plenty of space at this place!

The Sudanese Macaques have a large area on a hill, part of the tempe area, it all looks good but it could have been so much better as well. Not allot of height, enrichment or climbing opportunities. There indoor area that was visible only because the one way viewing film placed on there indoor enclosure glass area was peeled back, this looked very untidy and out of place at this business that plays great attention to detail and theming. Unfortunately this off exhibit area built inside the temple has the public looking don onto the Macaques!

A great underwater viewing window for hippos the largest single span l have seen for hippos, shame hey only had two animals and there land area mostly concrete, with a small sand area.

The life size ship actually houses the African elephants (3) who have a very small enclosure and the reptile collection.

The reptile collection was again well themed with larger than normal enclosures for the collection.

There appears to be a very large mansion overlooking the zoo, on closer inspection after entering it appears totally gutted and fitted out with the aquarium, l walked in about 20 ft all mock rock and pools of fish and incredibly claustrophobic, l did not stay!

Next to the mansion/aquarium is the small penguin and seal enclosures very well themed just way to small.

Some large indoor walk through themed areas, that again look good but the size of the animal enclosures just way to small. I think there were at least 6 small clawed otters in the smallest all concrete display area l have ever seen, very disappointing.

A bizarre Australian section all very green and full of tree ferns, again it looked good to the eye, just nothing like reality. A large walk through aviary with allot of budgies and australian parrots, was very enjoyable.

The largest aviaries l have seen for eagles ect, still no where big enough (i dont know what would be for birds of this size?) but a big improvement on the other collections l have seen on this trip.

Overall a very strange place but hugely popular, it covers a enormous area and all areas seemed to be busy with people. The majority of the animals definitely came second place with mostly small exhibits, or larger areas with little enrichment.

The attached pic shows 80% of the exhibit.
 

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Pairi Daiza
I had heard some good reports on this place ( it's not a zoo)...
The public pay money to see non-domestic animals in enclosures.
That's a zoo in my book.


"Pairi Daiza is apparently owned by one person who has built themselves a very fancy looking treehouse overlooking the zoo! (He could be quite mad!)"

Pairi Daiza is the creation of a man named Eric Domb. In its early days it was almost entirely a bird collection, with other taxa added in recent years. Eric Domb was, from 2006 to 2009, President of the Walloon Business Federation (UWE). This does not, of course, preclude the possibility of him being mad...
 
Hamburg Zoo,

A very large green winged macaw aviary with 20 birds was amazing to watch as they flew around the aviary! Interestingly they spent allot of time on the ground. I wish more zoos had this exhibit it really showed the birds very well, allot more inspiring that the clipped wings on a branch.....

.

Zooman in which zoos have you seen wing-clipped macaws? It is considered not done and it has been a loooooong time I have seen any macaws that weren't kept in flying conditions. The only exception is the now closed NOP but those macaws were former pets that were handed over to the park, so they weren't clipped by the park itself.
 
DDCorvus

Both Colchester & Cotswold had flight-restricted macaws last time I visited.
Sudanese Macaques?
 
Zooman means celebes crested macaques.
About the macaws I'm quite sure the birds at bpth Beekse Bergen and at the Oliemeulen are also wing-clipped.
 
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