Paignton Zoo Orangutan Island/Lemur Wood

worst thing

Getting in and out of Torbay is a nightmare. There are plans, at long last, to build a bypass en route to Newton Abbot but it will still be years before it's completed. That awful road has stopped businesses coming here. As you say, the Totnes road can be bad too. Locals know about short cuts through narrow lanes but there are humps which attack low slung exhausts. Imagine what it's like trying to get past the zoo in summer and being caught up in zoo and supermarket traffic. It's a different story out of the holiday season.
For worst access from Paignton, I nominate Monkey World. Far too many single carriageways with slow moving rustic traffic on the A35.
 
Gigit said:
Getting in and out of Torbay is a nightmare. It's a different story out of the holiday season.
For worst access from Paignton, I nominate Monkey World. Far too many single carriageways with slow moving rustic traffic on the A35.
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In case anyone thinks we are are changing topics here, this is actually a discussion on 'getting to Paignton's Orangutan/lemur islands'...:)

I'd rate Torbay one of the most congested areas in S.W. england. I'll probably be dead by the time the new bypass is complete:(
I'm surprised they can't do something about the access to the Zoo/Supermarket area though, after all the rest that bit is the final straw.

Paignton-Monkeyworld- yes a long journey but lots of nice views...:)
 
Yes, the problem with getting to Orangutan Island/Lemur Wood is that if the main car park is full, you have to go round the mini roundabout to the overflow car park and so get mixed in with the supermarket traffic, hence the queues. I can't imagine them spending a lot of money solving a problem which is only really bad for about 8 weeks a year. And traffic jams are the price we locals have to pay for living here. You see why I live just a walk away from the zoo :)
As for the A35, yes the views are lovely but are no compensation for your orangutan viewing time being shortened by a slow journey!
 
I find the main problem getting to Paignton's Orangutan island/Lemur wood is getting off the main road in the first place-not something you have to suffer as a local pedestrian. I did visit in March once and noticed there was far less traffic then. I can remember the days when Paignton's only car park was a rough area on a slope- probably the auxilliary carpark nowadays. Paignton is an example of a Zoo that has really projected itself in recent years- it used to be quite an archaic place for a very long time with next- to- no development happening. All that changed about the time the Apehouse was built..
 
Pertinax said:
Paignton is an example of a Zoo that has really projected itself in recent years- it used to be quite an archaic place for a very long time with next- to- no development happening. All that changed about the time the Apehouse was built..
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. . . just around the time of my first visit (but I'm too modest to take all the credit, I'll share it with Pertinax the First and all the other gorillas and orangs):D
I agree completely about the undergrowth around the islands - rather romantic, but flipping frustrating too.
I had little problem on the way in to Paignton - just getting getting past the long queue to use my Chester card at the Member's gate. But the traffic on the way out was awful. I guess that's Devon in August.

Alan
 
I do know what you mean about getting into the entrance as I often drive to the supermarket. The overflow zoo carpark is the old original one, no longer attached to the zoo.
It's amazing that all the new developments have only taken place in the last 12 years - since they received money from Europe and sold land to the supermarket. Although I have only been an ardent visitor since Bulu's arrival and the building of the Orangutan Island, I did go occasionally before 1996 but struggle to remember what it used to be like. It feels as though this is how it's always been now.
 
gentle lemur said:
I had little problem on the way in to Paignton - just getting getting past the long queue to use my Chester card at the Member's gate. But the traffic on the way out was awful. I guess that's Devon in August.

Alan
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Having a membership card is supposed to make things easier - but not at peak times. I like to get there early during term time (to be first at the Orangutan Island) but so do the school parties, who all queue at that same gate. As they are just milling about waiting for their leaders to sort things out, I now work my way to the front and get let in.
You are right about Devon in August!
 
gentle lemur said:
I agree completely about the undergrowth around the islands - rather romantic, but flipping frustrating too.
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The problem is that there are only a few viewing places around the perimeter- the path all the rest of the way along serves no purpose except that you walk long distances along it. And the vegetation at the viewing place nearest the entrance to the house(gorilla side) has grown up and obscured the small open area, it all needs hacking back and opening up. The gorillas can only be seen outdoors if they are in one or two 'vantage' spots only and (apart from the cave area), always look far away. Ii would be better if you could walk out of the house and be able to see over the island immediately but you can't do because of the high palisade fence(the first one had to be quickly replaced- it was too low...) They can't change the design but they could improve the amount of viewing possible. e.g. why not clear the whole length from the swamp monkey area to the cave? Contrast with GK at London- you can see the Gorillas clearly from any point along the visitor path.
 
Gigit said:
It's amazing that all the new developments have only taken place in the last 12 years - since they received money from Europe and sold land to the supermarket. I did go occasionally before 1996 but struggle to remember what it used to be like. It feels as though this is how it's always been now.
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In the 'old days' it felt rather like a Botanic garden, but with animals there too. You entered via the little old 'lodge' entrance on the main road. Lions and tigers were on the hillside to your left along the main path. It was very tranquil. Lots of old buildings- some pretty awful cages along from the old monkey house for animals like Mandrills, Leopards, Black bears. The very large 'cattle sheds' (now Monkey Heights) always seemed two thirds empty. Giraffes above Baboon rock. Old elephant house etc. They had a very extensive parrot collection.
It probably feels the same as its always been because a lot of it still is as the site & layout is very long-standing. Its just that some big new buildings and exhibits have been incorporated too.

The 'Mary le Fevre' Ape House was funded by a bequest from the old lady from Exmouth who used to visit in bygone days to 'feed the Monkeys'. Without this single benefactor they may never have been able to afford to build for Orangs & Gorillas. Bulu & Co arrived from London some while before it was built(though it was in the planning stage). They lived in that small mammal house first.
 
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I've been watching Demo, Mali and Gambira demolishing one of the platforms on Orangutan Island this morning (the first one after the bridge). They seemed to be stashing the logs somewhere, probably for future use. A good bit of pongo-an vandalism to brighten up the morning :)
I remember the elephants and giraffes from the 'old days' and the lions near the entrance and wasn't there a chimp in the end of the small mammal house? I seem to recall him being taunted by visitors (nothing changes). I first saw Bulu in the flesh in the small mammal house, and later fought my way indoors to see her with a tiny Gambira in her arms.
Re the difficulties of seeing onto the Orangutan/ Gorilla islands, Pertinax (I think it was him) used to enjoy sitting in a little hide facing the lake so you could get a good look at him there. I don't know whether the gorillas damaged it or what happened, but it was demolished and has never been replaced.
 
Gigit said:
I first saw Bulu in the flesh in the small mammal house, and later fought my way indoors to see her with a tiny Gambira in her arms.
Re the difficulties of seeing onto the Orangutan/ Gorilla islands, Pertinax (I think it was him) used to enjoy sitting in a little hide facing the lake so you could get a good look at him there. I don't know whether the gorillas damaged it or what happened, but it was demolished and has never been replaced.
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1. I think there may have been a pair of chimpanzees and yes,I seem to remember they had the end cage in the Small Mammal House at one stage.

2. When the Orangutans lived in there, what was their indoor housing like?. Was it specially redesigned for them? Did I imagine that? I've always been puzzled about this as when the Mandrills later lived in it,(after the Orangs moved out) it looked like the same old caging as before...:confused:

3. Are you saying the 'cave shelter' on the Gorilla island has gone? I got my only decent photo of Pertinax just there, and that still took FOUR seperate visits to achieve... I'm surprised they haven't replaced it as it was a popular spot for individual gorillas.

4. See my post in 'Paignton Gorillas' about the younger males driving off Pertinax....
 
Pertinax said:
1. I think there may have been a pair of chimpanzees and yes,I seem to remember they had the end cage in the Small Mammal House at one stage.

2. When the Orangutans lived in there, what was their indoor housing like?. Was it specially redesigned for them? Did I imagine that? I've always been puzzled about this as when the Mandrills later lived in it,(after the Orangs moved out) it looked like the same old caging as before...:confused:

3. Are you saying the 'cave shelter' on the Gorilla island has gone? I got my only decent photo of Pertinax just there, and that still took FOUR seperate visits to achieve... I'm surprised they haven't replaced it as it was a popular spot for individual gorillas.

4. See my post in 'Paignton Gorillas' about the younger males driving off Pertinax....
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2. I'm pretty sure they didn't adapt the cage in any way. It looked cramped and dark and Bulu was sitting on a shelf with Gambira.

3. Yes, the shelter is no more. I expected it to be rebuilt but it's all grown over there now.
 
Gigit said:
2. I'm pretty sure they didn't adapt the cage in any way. It looked cramped and dark and Bulu was sitting on a shelf with Gambira.

3. Yes, the shelter is no more. I expected it to be rebuilt but it's all grown over there now.
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Both interesting things to know. I'm surprised they haven't redone the Gorilla cave shelter(the gorillas may have partly destroyed it themselves because they like to strip timber..)- it was about the only place on the island to see a Gorilla up close. I think the outdoor viewing is long overdue for improvement...
 
Pertinax said:
Not wishing to be overly critical here but I've always felt the pathways and viewing facilities around the outside Ape Islands at Paignton are badly designed. Apart from along one side of the orangutan island(which is usually deserted anyway), there are very few vantage points where you can see onto the islands. Its particularly difficult to see the Gorillas outdoors, let alone photograph them easily. Cutting back some of the vegetation on the visitors side would help. I know they designed it this way to give a more natural feel but I think it just makes for very poor viewing. They should look at London or Bristol Gorilla outside exhibits, or at Chester's for Orangutans.
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Pertinax, you'll be pleased to hear that the vegetation alongside the orangutan island - between the play area/avian area and the island - is being cut back. The island is now in full view though devoid of orangutans as they are indoors. The first two platforms just past the bridge have been taken down (not sure if one didn't come down of its own accord) so there are no ropes up for them at the moment.
You'll probably be more even pleased if I'm able to report the same for the gorilla island :)
 
Gigit said:
You'll probably be more even pleased if I'm able to report the same for the gorilla island :)
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yes I would as I feel the viewing of the Gorillas' island is the poorer of the two because of the vegetation in the way- also the gorillas seem to be outside more than the orangutans- though neiher are exactly open air fanatics...
 
Gigit said:
Pertinax, you'll be pleased to hear that the vegetation alongside the orangutan island - between the play area/avian area and the island - is being cut back. The island is now in full view though devoid of orangutans as they are indoors. The first two platforms just past the bridge have been taken down (not sure if one didn't come down of its own accord) so there are no ropes up for them at the moment.
You'll probably be more even pleased if I'm able to report the same for the gorilla island :)
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Gigit,

So, what is happening with outside enclosure refurbishment at the orangs in Paignton. I would like to see orangs in a tree top exhibit and not drenched in full sunlight (unnatural). Any plans to make it more arboreal attuned? ;)
 
jelle.

Paignton's Orangutan Island is very natural- at its further end there's a grove of very tall trees(willow & alder) which quite possibly the Orangutans have never climbed!! (Gigit?) Partially the reason for this is because Paignton's Orangutans came from London Zoo where they had lived all their lives in traditional zoo cages- hence they had little or no desire as adult animals to leave the ground, explore or climb when given the opportunity. The island remains largely unused except for the area nearest their indoor housing, which they seem to prefer to stay in(when given the choice that is)

Its a very natural enclosure- I hope that with additional ropes inter connecting with the trees, at least the newer pair of Orangs(demo & Mali) will use it better. I'm sure the Gibbons when introduced will use these trees without any hesitation- maybe the Orangutans will follow suit.
 
Pertinax said:
jelle.

Paignton's Orangutan Island is very natural- at its further end there's a grove of very tall trees(willow & alder) which quite possibly the Orangutans have never climbed!! (Gigit?) Partially the reason for this is because Paignton's Orangutans came from London Zoo where they had lived all their lives in traditional zoo cages- hence they had little or no desire as adult animals to leave the ground, explore or climb when given the opportunity. The island remains largely unused except for the area nearest their indoor housing, which they seem to prefer to stay in(when given the choice that is)

Its a very natural enclosure- I hope that with additional ropes inter connecting with the trees, at least the newer pair of Orangs(demo & Mali) will use it better. I'm sure the Gibbons when introduced will use these trees without any hesitation- maybe the Orangutans will follow suit.
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Ok, thanx for the explanation. Any photos of the current exhibit in the gallery? I was first a little concerned with the talk of these platforms.

I am a little hopeful that with the new introducees natural orang behaviour may improve as orangs have some of the greatest capacity at interpreting and learning complex behaviours in a social setting. They tend to look over at the new orang with new knowledge and then copy it down to the last letter!

Where did Demo and Mali come from originally? What was the enclosure set up over there?
 
There are some photos in the Gallery. (try 'Paignton orangutan')
Demo and Mali came from Munster. They are very active. Chinta and Gambira have become more adventurous since being mixed with them.
The island originally had 4 or 5 platforms on poles among the trees but the poles have gradually rotted/ been removed (the island can get very waterlogged) and new poles are being put in. I have seen orangs on the platforms and in some of the trees, but not in the ones Pertinax mentions. On the, unfortunately, rare occasions when they have been outside lately, they have been all over the island - exploring, dismantling a platform, tightrope walking, climbing the new poles......
There is a lot of cover and it can be difficult to spot them and presumably this is why they are cutting back the vegetation, not only along the path but also around the edge of the island. I have mixed feelings about this. Naturally I want to see them, but I think their needs should take priority. They will now be exposed to a busy, noisy area with a playground and snack bar.
I'm wondering if this is linked to the building work now going on next to the nearby tiger enclosure. Apparently people complain that they can't see the tigers, who usually like to stay as far away from the viewing area as possible, so they are erecting a large ramp and platform to make things easier. It's possible that this will also give a view over to the orangutan island, if there's less vegetation in the way.
 
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