Port Lympne Wild Animal Park Bush Pigs & Red River Hogs.

P

Pertinax

Well-Known Member
15+ year member
In the latest IZES newsletter, the writer, after hearing the driver/guide on the Port Lympne 'African Experience' describe Red River Hogs as 'Bushpigs' says this is a 'startling error' adding "Red River Hogs are not Bush Pigs (two different species of course)" .

I thought that R.R. Hog is simply a subspecies of Bush Pig, on ISIS they are certainly listed as such, under 'African Bush Pig'.

Who is correct, the IZES writer or the Port Lympne driver?
 
the red river hog is a sperate species from the bush pig but the confussion is that the red river hog is also known as a bush pig supose this is the problem with common names
 
In both Walkers Mammals & on ISIS they are all classified as Potamochoerus porcus with the RR Hog being a subspecies; p.p.pictus. There is no seperate listing for Red River Hog, only Bush Pig.
 
Kingdon's Field Guide to African Mammals lists the two as separate species: Potomochoerus lavatus and Potomochoerous porcus. However, the range map indicates a continuous border for the two "species" running from the west coast of Africa all the way to the Rift Valley, and given the variation I've seen in "Red River Hogs" (some are more brown and lack the really distinctive white ear and cheek tassels) I have to wonder if this is just another example of "splitting."

The real question to me is the identity of the porcine critter at the San Diego Zoo identified there as a "Eastern Forest Hog." It is very clearly NOT a Giant Forest Hog, as it is much smaller than individuals of that species I've seen in the wild, but is dark and bulkier than any Bush Pig or Red River Hog I've ever seen.
 
reduakari said:
The real question to me is the identity of the porcine critter at the San Diego Zoo identified there as a "Eastern Forest Hog." It is very clearly NOT a Giant Forest Hog, as it is much smaller than individuals of that species I've seen in the wild, but is dark and bulkier than any Bush Pig or Red River Hog I've ever seen.
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that little piggy has been discussed before on this forum, but I can't recall what the conclusion (if any) was....

EDIT: it was in here, from Sun Wukong http://www.zoobeat.com/2/animals-youll-never-see-zoo-6060/index6.html#post28836
 
reduakari said:
Kingdon's Field Guide to African Mammals lists the two as separate species: Potomochoerus lavatus and Potomochoerous porcus. However, the range map indicates a continuous border for the two "species" running from the west coast of Africa all the way to the Rift Valley, and given the variation I've seen in "Red River Hogs" (some are more brown and lack the really distinctive white ear and cheek tassels) I have to wonder if this is just another example of "splitting."
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These days the taxonomy follows the splitters and they are classed as two seperate species (RRH being the rainforest species, bushpigs being... well from the bush). But you are correct that there is some overlap between the two. Not uncommon, if you think about hamadryas and olive baboons hybridising where they meet.
 
ISIS - African bush pigs

Just had a look on ISIS . They list 4 groups , all as African bush pigs .

Firstly there are P. larvatus koiropotamus with only a group of 5.7.3 at San Diego . I assume these are 'real' bush pigs .

Next a lot of US zoos list their stock as P. porcus - over 120 - these would be the US red river hogs I think .

The stock in European zoos is listed as P porcus pictus . A total of 57 are listed in 13 UK collections , 8 of which I believe have bred them . Not long ago this was an exciting rarity .

Lastly Emmen are listed as having 0.3 P. porcus porcus - an ISIS mistake or have they something different ?

The curious black female pig at San Diego is listed under giant forest hog .
 
Bele said:
Just had a look on ISIS . They list 4 groups , all as African bush pigs .
The stock in European zoos is listed as P porcus pictus . A total of 57 are listed in 13 UK collections , 8 of which I believe have bred them . Not long ago this was an exciting rarity .
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yes, you can't look up 'Red River Hog' in the mammalian list, they are all 'Bush Pig'.

I think the first in Europe to breed them was Duisburg. Port Lympne's original pair came from there- yet for some reason have never bred(despite PL being so expert with all their charges) Its good to see larger groups evolving as some zoos are keeping more of their piglets, at the same time this species is still appearing in more collections. They are a good exhibit- colourful etc.
 
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Pertinax said:
yes, you can't look up 'Red River Hog' in the mammalian list, they are all 'Bush Pig'.
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Don't read too much into the taxonomy and common names for species on ISIS. They are hopeless for updating it and so you are stuck with an antiquated system. I would hazard a guess that the majority of bush pigs or RRH in captivity are the same type ie. red river hogs. It is obviously an aesthetic thing as they are nice and colourful.
 
Belfast also had two pairs of red river hogs years ago from duisburg when port lympne received theirs. The problem being the animals where all closely related which in some porcine species is thought to stop them breeding. our original female who is nearly 12 years old just bred for the first time with a young male.

If anyones interested ive just uploaded a photo of the san diego western bush pig that i saw last week!!!:D
 
The pigs at Emmen are 3 sisters from Gaiapark, so they are in no way different from the rest of the population. all red river hogs in Europe decend from just very few founders (far less then 10 if I remember right). Despite inbreeding, it seems the animals are doing well & breeding well. I really like them!
 
Al said:
Belfast also had two pairs of red river hogs years ago from duisburg when port lympne received theirs. The problem being the animals where all closely related which in some porcine species is thought to stop them breeding. our original female who is nearly 12 years old just bred for the first time with a young male.
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Very interesting information. I guessed that might be why Port Lympne's pair didn't breed- I couldn't think of any other reason. Most other pairs present in the UK now are breeding freely.
Howletts have bred from another(more recent) pair, so maybe they have added more animals to the PL pair by now.
 
Chester wre told they could mate father/daughter once only, but I don't think they ever did.
 
bongorob said:
Chester wre told they could mate father/daughter once only, but I don't think they ever did.
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I guess that's why they did the swap with Paignton which has benefited both zoos. I imagine Chester will produce plenty of RR hogs from this unrelated trio they have now.
 
Pertinax said:
I guess that's why they did the swap with Paignton which has benefited both zoos. I imagine Chester will produce plenty of RR hogs from this unrelated trio they have now.
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Am sure they will, they just need somewhere ready to ship the offspring off too or another enclsoure in the zoo as there night dens are not that big.
 
taun said:
Am sure they will, they just need somewhere ready to ship the offspring off too or another enclsoure in the zoo as there night dens are not that big.
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As I 've mentioned before, I hope that they can keep a decent sized group- but the current night area is very small I know.

I think RR Hogs would look even better in a mixed exhibit really, the problem being they churn up the ground badly in the captive situation so it would have to be a species which is already 'heavy' on the ground (so not e.g. Okapi...)
 
Pertinax said:
As I 've mentioned before, I hope that they can keep a decent sized group- but the current night area is very small I know.

I think RR Hogs would look even better in a mixed exhibit really, the problem being they churn up the ground badly in the captive situation so it would have to be a species which is already 'heavy' on the ground (so not e.g. Okapi...)
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The enclosure looked so much better with the two adults and there offspring, didn't feel as empty.

Maybe a Congo Buffalo & RR Hogs mixed enclosure, I know the Buffalo dont churn the mood up as much but they dont seem to go near the grass paddock in the winter.
 
taun said:
Maybe a Congo Buffalo & RR Hogs mixed enclosure, I know the Buffalo dont churn the mood up as much but they dont seem to go near the grass paddock in the winter.
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That would seem the most obvious mix at Chester. I started a thread on the general Forum to see what any other zoos are keeping them with nowadays.
 
Pertinax said:
That would seem the most obvious mix at Chester. I started a thread on the general Forum to see what any other zoos are keeping them with nowadays.
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Yeah and if the Giraffes move it would open up some more space to expand the current Buffalo enclosure.
 
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