Best ape enclosures
- Thread starter tpw123
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Johnny Morris.
Well-Known Member
Howletts/Port lympne, Gorilla enclosures, not the best for visitors, but the Gorillas seem to like it and surely that's all that matters.
I think there are a lot of chimps left in inferior accommodation, alone even as a legacy of the days when they were more popular. Orangutans are challenging to do justice to.
IanRRobinson
Well-Known Member
Two intelligent comments, O.P. There ARE a lot of Chimpanzees with many years of limited quality ahead of them in Europe, the victims of a lack of management for too many years.
As for Orangs: a lot of UK zoos have simply given up on the effort of keeping them, it seems to me. Sad.
Here are my simple answers to a simple question (but bear in mind that I haven't seen all the ape enclosures in all the zoos in the UK).
Gorillas - 'Palace of the Apes' Port Lympne.
Orangs - 'Realm of the Red Ape' Chester (although the Sumatran orangs have more space than the Bornean orangs, both have more climbing facilites than anywhere else I have visited. Note also that the Islands development will provide a new complex for the Sumatran orang group).
Chimps - 'Budongo' Edinburgh
Bonobos - Twycross (no contest, there aren't any others - but the exhibit is not wonderful)
Gibbons - harder to choose, I'd pick Edinburgh, but noting the gibbons in RotRA at Chester.
Alan
Gorillas - 'Palace of the Apes' Port Lympne.
Orangs - 'Realm of the Red Ape' Chester (although the Sumatran orangs have more space than the Bornean orangs, both have more climbing facilites than anywhere else I have visited. Note also that the Islands development will provide a new complex for the Sumatran orang group).
Chimps - 'Budongo' Edinburgh
Bonobos - Twycross (no contest, there aren't any others - but the exhibit is not wonderful)
Gibbons - harder to choose, I'd pick Edinburgh, but noting the gibbons in RotRA at Chester.
Alan
I can't dispute these suggestions too much, especially the gorillas & chimps.
I like Paignton's orang enclosure and the golden cheeked gibbon exhibit at monkeyworld( one at the bottom of the park) which also has indoor facilities that put some to shame!
Couldn't agree more with that, those are two fantastic enclosures!
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I can't comment about Jersey because I haven't been there since Jambo was in his prime
The differences between the orang exhibits at Paignton and Chester bring out several interesting points, in view of the difficulty of displaying them well which has already been mentioned.
Paignton's islands look wonderful and the orangs really seem to enjoy foraging among the natural vegetation - but I have only ever seen Chinta climbing high in the trees. I think it is a problem that the animals have to descend to the ground to travel from the house to the island(s). From the visitor's point of view, it is quite possible to walk through the house and round the islands without seeing any of the orangs.
On the other hand visitors to RotRA are almost guaranteed to see active orangs - partly because they are breeding so well and the youngsters are very active, partly because all the enclosures are designed to encourage the orangs to climb and swing, partly because Sumatran orangs tend to be more active than Borneans (although old Martha still sometimes climbs right to the top of one of the netted enclosures). The problem with RotRA is that if the zoo is busy, the whole house gets very crowded - particularly if Emma or Subis decide to come and sit by the window to look at the visitors - although I'm sure that really is a highlight for many peoples' visits to Chester. It is also worth noting that all the orangs at Chester can choose whether to be outdoors or indoors and they can go out of sight of the visitors at any time (except for Tuan, the Bornean male, who is completely off-show in the old orang house).
We must never forget that apes in general and orangs in particular are individuals. If Martha's family were moved from Chester to Paignton and the Paignton orangs went the other way, I suspect they would quickly find their own different ways of using their new homes: of course I mean this purely hypothetically, moving adult orangs is not without risks.
Alan
Barring mention of the best bonobo enclosure in the UK, which is a little superfluous
I would say that the above list about covers it for me too - although I would remove the caveat regarding whether or not Edinburgh has the best gibbon enclosure, because I think it does hands-down.I suspect many of us wish that; sadly I suspect that Twycross are unlikely to let any animals go unless they are forced to, especially not to any other UK collections, as the species is more or less the only USP of Twycross now.
Its interesting that when the Ape House at Paignton was built, and the ex London Orangutans were moved in, I hardly ever saw them go outside, let alone climb any of the trees. This particulary applied to Bulu and Senja who after a life in mesh enclosures at London seemed totally unable to adapt to climbing in the great outdoors, whereas the younger Chinta and Nakal did explore more but still didn't seem to climb a lot. This went on for several years, up until when Demo & Mali arrived, when they started using the trees more fully. Of course not Bulu and Senja who reminded me rather of Parrots that have lived in small cages so long that they had lost the ability/interest in flying.
At least at Chester Martha and Co have had larger open areas to live all their lives, even if real climbing facilities didn't appear until ROTRA. Displaywise I think the indoor areas of ROTRA are very good, except for the main drawback of the over-crowding of the viewing areas.
It is a silly 'dog in the manger' attitude- same as Bristol in the 1960's with both Okapis and White Tiger. It also overlooks the well-being of the animals. For years that Bonobo House at Twycross held both Bonobos and a Gorilla group which had to rotate in the outdoor area(half the day each
) and I think they are pretty much back to that now with two Bonobo groups- correct me someone if I am wrong about this being the current situation?
The new split orangutan enclosures at Monkey World have massive climbing structures now, Gordon's group in particular makes a lot of use of it.
I'd never diss RotRA though, I love the freedom they have to do as they please.
What impressed me most about ROTRA was the inside areas for the Sumatran Orangs- all those hanging plastic 'vines' which enable the Orangs to swing and travel so efficiently, much as they would in the wild. Too many other (UK) Zoos still use mainly rigid climbing equipment e.g. heavy poles and platforms with usually firehoses or ropes interconnecting (or worse, the relatively useless 'cargo nets') but the animals can't/don't utilise these in the same way as Chester's orangs can.
You really don't appreciate the size and power of an orangutan until you see it brachiate which they get ample opportunity in RotRA. I also love watching the little ones experimenting with them to make their journey, trying one and then going back because they didn't make it to the next one and taking a bigger swing or going another route, I watched Iznee doing this a couple of weeks ago.
I don't know what I'm looking forward to most with Islands - what they come up with for the Sumatrans or seeing Martha and the rest living in current Sumatran accommodation.
I don't know what I'm looking forward to most with Islands - what they come up with for the Sumatrans or seeing Martha and the rest living in current Sumatran accommodation.
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I agree completely about the 'vines' in RotRA (which are actually webbing straps). I am hoping for sway poles in Islands (and possibly in a refurbished RotRA too).
Alan
Alan
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It will be interesting to see if the Borneans use it in the same way as the Sumatrans do, being, in captivity, a rather more sluggish species. I guess the younger ones certainly will, and probably the others too except maybe Martha (now oldest Orangutan in UK?).
Incidentally, it always surprises me that Chester have never gone into Gorillas again. In the past there were problems in sourcing them from other Zoos, but these days they are more available, particularly males, and I am confident they would build something really good for them.
Martha might surprise us! I guess they don't have the same interest in people as Subis and Emma so likely won't rig up seating for themselves near the window and will therefore be less visible. Iznee seems the most interested in people. Leia seems to mooch around on the ground quite a bit and peer into the internal corridors, and Sarekei, when not uprooting trees isn't the most active. Hopefully they will have new babies before too many years pass.
Weren't gorillas supposed to be in the development that didn't occur and is now replaced by Islands. I'd like to see Chester do gorillas and bonobos but I guess having excellent exhibits for both Sumatran and Bornean orangs is pretty good going.
I wish they would get the chimp genetics sorted and start some breeding, or even just have one baby, Tina is growing up and it would be good for her to see a baby born and it is so enhancing for the group.