Blackfish

First off Bonnie and I both grew up visiting Sea World of Ohio from the time we were little kids right up to its closing in 2001.We both have very fond memories of these visits.We watched Blackfish yesterday and came away very sad and disturbed by most of what we saw.However after taking some time to give some real thought to it and after seeing the you tube video posted by Moebelle I would say that Sea world does a ton of good but perhaps its time to take a hard look at Orcas in captivity.

Team Tapir223
 
I have seen the film twice now and still fail to see what people saw that made them grow hate towards Sea World. It is full of deception, stock footage that does not belong to them, and does not provide any scientific facts regarding the dangers of freeing whales. It is a propaganda film that tells people to believe whatever they say, no matter if it's true or not.
 
I have seen the film twice now and still fail to see what people saw that made them grow hate towards Sea World. It is full of deception, stock footage that does not belong to them, and does not provide any scientific facts regarding the dangers of freeing whales. It is a propaganda film that tells people to believe whatever they say, no matter if it's true or not.

I'm going to assume you work for them, because you're incredibly defensive and pretty much doing exactly what you accuse Blackfish of doing
 
I'm going to assume you work for them, because you're incredibly defensive and pretty much doing exactly what you accuse Blackfish of doing

No, I live not only 16 hours away from the closest SeaWorld but I also plan to never work at SeaWorld. What is true though is that I'm not naive.
 
Also I think some of Seaworld's whales are from transient pods and others are from resident pods.

To answer this question, out of the 24 orcas displayed at SeaWorld, the only one that is ruled as a transient orca is Tilikum.
 
I have seen the film twice now and still fail to see what people saw that made them grow hate towards Sea World. It is full of deception, stock footage that does not belong to them, and does not provide any scientific facts regarding the dangers of freeing whales. It is a propaganda film that tells people to believe whatever they say, no matter if it's true or not.

In all fairness, the movie never advocates for releasing the whales into the wild.
 
Then that's their own fault.

I would both agree and disagree on that point. People who are already against zoos don't seem to have a clue how they function in regards to animal rescuing, rehabilitating, and transportating. So when a successful mockumentary comes out and becomes a popular trend amongst social media that attempts to bring down a major corporation that especially involves animals, it seems in the backlash that thousands upon thousands of people do not stop and think that "Free the Whales" is not a plausible solution and it only makes them appear more ridiculous in their "revolt". However, there are a few sequences where Blackfish touches on non-SeaWorld related issues and people for whatever reason, still believed the issues were caused by SeaWorld. I am one to run into multiple Blackfish brigade spammers on social media (thank God I have Zoochat), so for example, when the film discusses SeaLand's method of getting Tilikum, Haida II, and (I have forgotten the other one) to perform whenever the orcas denied the trainers, they starved them until they would corporate unwillingly. For some strange reason, the uneducated decided to believe that every single marine park in the world still uses this method of getting the animals to perform in the modern world. So when I ask a person, 'If it is physically impossible to physically force a 10,000 lbs creature listen to a 130 lbs human, then please tell me how and why the animals do actually listen to human command.". The real answer: positive reinforcement techniques, and even the trust between the trainer and animal. The answer I get: Starvation and any form of food deprivation. And what is the source of information they give me? You guessed it, Blackfish.
 
Well, I've never been to the Sea World in Australia and so I can only speak from knowledge about the care and housing in the United States. I won't watch the movie Blackfish (I've seen parts of it) because I know the people involved in both sides and I've been quite involved with pro-captivity and anti-captivity. I think Blackfish is educational, to a point, but to people who've never been to Sea World they are taking the movie at face value and forming opinions about Sea World without ever having been there. Something to keep in mind, Sea World isn't responsible for the initial captures back in the late 60s/early 70s. Sea World San Diego opened originally as a restaurant with fish. If I remember correctly, it was supposed to be some sort of underwater-type restaurant where you could enjoy watching a variety of different species while you dined. It was already opened for a couple of years before the first whales were captured. Why they chose to move from a restaurant to a marine park, I don't know.

I agree with you about the breeding. I don't think they should keep breeding the dolphins and orca they have due to crowding problems all 3 Sea World parks have. I think they should let the current animals live out their lives and when they're gone, that's it. The problem with that, though, is that in the wild, orca have a lifespan similar to that of humans. There's been documented cases of a couple of individuals in the Southern Resident Pod (where Tokitae/Lolita from Miamiseaquarium is from) living 100+ years. I think one of them is still going strong. Nobody knows, yet, the lifespan of a captive orca as the two oldest, Corky2 in San Diego and Tokitae in Miami are about the same age and still going strong. I think overcrowding is a big problem. Even though Sea World houses their orca in pools that are larger than the standards required of them, it's still not big enough for the number of animals they have. I wish the captures had never happened. I've seen orca in the wild and Sea World is nothing in comparison.

I'm not saying people shouldn't watch Blackfish. I'm just saying to keep an open mind if you choose to watch it. Don't watch the movie and automatically think Sea World is a horrible place. The movie was made with the intent to shock it's viewers and make them see their side of things. PETA and Dr Paul Spong (whom I happen to think is a wonderful person) have been after Sea World for years to release its captive animals, but nobody seems to want to talk about what that would mean for the animals themselves. I am no longer pro-captivity for cetaceans, but I'm anti-release because it would kill the animals and that's not acceptable. To put them into sea pens isn't much better than keeping them in marine parks because they'd still be penned up and they'd also be in water with bacteria they don't have the immune system to fight off. They wouldn't be able to engage in any of their normal behavior in sea pens any more than what they can do in marine parks. I wish the show aspect of the parks would stop. It's turned into such a joke anyway with the costumed wetsuits the trainers wear and the dancing the trainers have to do. If they could figure out a way to turn the marine parks into more educational venues without the shows and without the constant breeding then I think that would be a good idea. Unfortunately, with the number of orca there are between the 3 parks and the amount of room, that's not really a viable option. Plus, the shows sell. New babies sell. Sea World would probably end up going bankrupt and then what would happen to the animals then?

I apologize if this has gotten off the track of the original discussion of the movie Blackfish. I just get very passionate on the subject as I've spent many years within Sea World and I know what goes on there and how the animals are cared for and I know the trainers and I just don't want people to get the wrong idea about the place based solely on the movie, which seems to be what is happening and what the movie wants to happen.

I know this is very late but like you this is a topic I'm passionate about. The shows never really bothered me because they aren't making the killer whales do anything insane like jump through a flaming hoop or forcing them to do it. If the orca doesn't perform it just is ignored and doesn't get a reward. The show I saw in San Diego was much more educational than a "show" as they talked about the types of killer whales, their behaviors, and their conservation without any crazy big screen televisions or trainers highly dressed up. It was nothing flashy, except for the fact there was lighting that ended the show early because it started pouring rain the one day it rained in California that summer. What exactly do you see as a problem with the shows?

And regarding the breeding, I see your point about the constant breeding and overcrowding, but now they cannot breed period in the future, which I see as a problem because I fear a killer whale-less Sea World will close down, just like an elephant-less Barnum Bailey. They should be able to breed, but only do it in a controlled form that prevents overcrowding.
 
I know this is very late but like you this is a topic I'm passionate about. The shows never really bothered me because they aren't making the killer whales do anything insane like jump through a flaming hoop or forcing them to do it. If the orca doesn't perform it just is ignored and doesn't get a reward. The show I saw in San Diego was much more educational than a "show" as they talked about the types of killer whales, their behaviors, and their conservation without any crazy big screen televisions or trainers highly dressed up. It was nothing flashy, except for the fact there was lighting that ended the show early because it started pouring rain the one day it rained in California that summer. What exactly do you see as a problem with the shows?

And regarding the breeding, I see your point about the constant breeding and overcrowding, but now they cannot breed period in the future, which I see as a problem because I fear a killer whale-less Sea World will close down, just like an elephant-less Barnum Bailey. They should be able to breed, but only do it in a controlled form that prevents overcrowding.
Considering the number of CEO's there have been in the last few years, I bet there will be even more in the next 40-50 years, and when their numbers go down, I guarantee this ban will be lifted.
 
And regarding the breeding, I see your point about the constant breeding and overcrowding, but now they cannot breed period in the future, which I see as a problem because I fear a killer whale-less Sea World will close down, just like an elephant-less Barnum Bailey. They should be able to breed, but only do it in a controlled form that prevents overcrowding.

Imho there is just no way of housing orcas adequately in captivity, at least not in any of the existing facilities. And for this breeding has to stop and they have to be phased out in captivity.
 
Imho there is just no way of housing orcas adequately in captivity, at least not in any of the existing facilities. And for this breeding has to stop and they have to be phased out in captivity.
What makes you say that? Sea World will be building a tank larger than the one housing whale sharks in Georgia just for their killer whales, with an underwater treadmill. Sure it's not the wild, but it's certainly not a bathtub.
 
What makes you say that? Sea World will be building a tank larger than the one housing whale sharks in Georgia just for their killer whales, with an underwater treadmill. Sure it's not the wild, but it's certainly not a bathtub.
SeaWorld has no plans to expand any of their tanks. Those were plans were scrapped.
 
What makes you say that? Sea World will be building a tank larger than the one housing whale sharks in Georgia just for their killer whales, with an underwater treadmill. Sure it's not the wild, but it's certainly not a bathtub.

If you're referencing the proposed Blue World exhibit, it was canceled and its funds were directed towards more permanent improvements.
 
When and why? I have not heard this before.
It happened quite some time ago. It was because the CCC wrongfully told the company that they couldn't expand unless they complied on never breeding the orcas again. I say it was wrongfully so because the CCC has no legal obligation regarding animal breeding or animal welfare for that matter. If seaworld expanded and kept breeding, the CCC would've come after them in court. The law is and would've been on SeaWorld's side but I seriously doubt they wanted to take the chance at dealing with another suit.
 
It happened quite some time ago. It was because the CCC wrongfully told the company that they couldn't expand unless they complied on never breeding the orcas again. I say it was wrongfully so because the CCC has no legal obligation regarding animal breeding or animal welfare for that matter. If seaworld expanded and kept breeding, the CCC would've come after them in court. The law is and would've been on SeaWorld's side but I seriously doubt they wanted to take the chance at dealing with another suit.
I see that's a shame. I was looking forward to the expansion.
 
Imho there is just no way of housing orcas adequately in captivity, at least not in any of the existing facilities. And for this breeding has to stop and they have to be phased out in captivity.

Agree-but there is also no way to of housing adequaltely elephants, apes, bears, big cats,seals and giraffes in captitivity. Zoos are for PEOPLE, not for animals-and don't forgrt the meaning of"Captivity"...-
the state or period of being held, imprisoned, enslaved, or confined. In the case of zoo animals, unfortunately this period is lifelong. So captivity is always negative, not only for orcas-for ALL Animals in Zoos,cirusses, at home....
 
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