Blackpool Zoo Jitu is off to Spain

taun said:
these two different approaches are obviously management issues within the zoos.
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Its okay, I don't really know what goes on at Twycross anymore.

As far as the Gorillas though- Blackpool only needed to replace a single animal(Jitu) to hopefully give them success.

Admiottedly Twycross is a bit more complicated, with the two currently nonbreeding groups- one with the 3 older animals and the other containing the five year old juvenile but no male. But the 'wait and see' approach has been going on a long time now. I'm wondering if 'Joe's recent death will change anything though I rather doubt it as its not connected to the other issues.
 
Pertinax said:
Its okay, I don't really know what goes on at Twycross anymore.

As far as the Gorillas though- Blackpool only needed to replace a single animal(Jitu) to hopefully give them success.

Admiottedly Twycross is a bit more complicated, with the two currently nonbreeding groups- one with the 3 older animals and the other containing the five year old juvenile but no male. But the 'wait and see' approach has been going on a long time now. I'm wondering if 'Joe's recent death will change anything though I rather doubt it as its not connected to the other issues.
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True, True. However there are many issues at Twycross at the moment some not so complicated.

I don't joes death will change anything as he lived alone, but it would be great to shake things up there and maybe swap the breeding females for a batchelor group as was mentioned before in this thread.
 
To they have taken where it ? Bioparc Valencia maybe? or Loro Parque in Canary Islands?
 
taun said:
it would be great to shake things up there and maybe swap the breeding females for a batchelor group as was mentioned before in this thread.
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It is a good idea but I think Pigs(or Gorillas?) would have to fly before it happened. I'm sure Twycross won't be parting with any of their females. We can only hope a male is added to the younger group.:rolleyes:
 
Pertinax said:
It is a good idea but I think Pigs(or Gorillas?) would have to fly before it happened. I'm sure Twycross won't be parting with any of their females. We can only hope a male is added to the younger group.:rolleyes:
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Even combining the two groups would be better than doing nothing.

I think some of us need to start over in life and get into the zoo industry to sort out some of these places :p
 
taun said:
Even combining the two groups would be better than doing nothing.
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In the 'Joe dies at Twycross' thread I suggested that they bring the 3 animals from the newest house and put them in Joe's old area. Then they could easily(and at their own pace) integrate them into a single group with 'SamSam' as the group silverback. It would be even better if they added a younger male(e.g. Dublin's 'Kesho') as a potential breeder too as SAmSam is probably 'past it' now and was never a virile breeder anyway.

an alternative scenario would be to have SamSam & Bongo( the eldest female) as a non-breeding pair in Joe's old quarters, and a new male with the other three females on the other side.

Both these set-ups would mean all the Gorillas(there are only 6 now) would live in the House near the Giraffes, leaving the other house vacant for e.g. Bonobos.

'SamSam', the only adult male they now have, already looks rather decrepit and seems considerably older than his years- he's 36. I suspect he won't last that long either so eventually they may HAVE to do something!!
 
I will go for the alternative scenario. I feel SamSam has never had a good track record. So, keep him with the elderly female Bongo whom he gets along with and when next he is brought under for a procedure try to collect semen for gene banking.

Then integrate all other gorillas in one large family grouping and bring in a totally unrelated male - perhaps the one from Dublin - a mother reared group (important issue here) - and have him establish as the group silverback and (undoubtedly) an apt breeder. :D
 
I havent actually visited Twycross myself, so i dont want to be too critical of things going on there. But just from reading threads and comments on zoobeat, it seems that there is a big lack of pro-activeness in that zoo. Isn't a similar thing going on with their Asian elephants in terms of breeding? (sorry for pushing this thread in a different direction, but it seemed logical to me to compare the two).

Could it be that breeding these animals is not as high on the zoo's ageda as it should be? Again, it sounds super critical of an institution which im sure gives immense care to the animals, but its pretty much the only conclusion one can draw from all of this.
 
scottie31 said:
I havent actually visited Twycross myself, so i dont want to be too critical of things going on there. But just from reading threads and comments on zoobeat, it seems that there is a big lack of pro-activeness in that zoo. Isn't a similar thing going on with their Asian elephants in terms of breeding? (sorry for pushing this thread in a different direction, but it seemed logical to me to compare the two).

Could it be that breeding these animals is not as high on the zoo's ageda as it should be? Again, it sounds super critical of an institution which im sure gives immense care to the animals, but its pretty much the only conclusion one can draw from all of this.
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The Twycross elephant debate is a whole other can of worms.

Currently it is an all-female group (with viable females) and there doesn't appear to have been any intention of getting a male. About 10 years ago they sent two females to Chester to be mated by Chester's then breeding bull, Chang.

They have gone down the AI route now and there is one cow currently pregnant (maybe more?)

EDIT: Perhaps Sim could move these twycross posts into a relevant thread as we appear to have strayed far from the original thread topic.
 
I know its kind of different, what i meant is that nothing pro-active has been done to solve the situation, they have neither moved a bull in or moved the females out....they are just there.

Anyway sorry for pulling this thread in a totally different direction.

EDIT: did'nt realise one of the cows was pregnant, thats good news. I still think they should move a bull in though, maybe one of whipsnades youngsters in the future?
 
scottie31 said:
I know its kind of different, what i meant is that nothing pro-active has been done to solve the situation, they have neither moved a bull in or moved the females out....they are just there.

Anyway sorry for pulling this thread in a totally different direction.

EDIT: did'nt realise one of the cows was pregnant, thats good news. I still think they should move a bull in though, maybe one of whipsnades youngsters in the future?
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To do that they would have to build a new house for the Bull as there is no way the present one could contain one if it decided to get out,but that will not happen as they can only throw money at new entrances,catering(much needed) and Snow leopard enclosures with working snow machines.
 
jelle said:
I will go for the alternative scenario. I feel SamSam has never had a good track record.

Then integrate all other gorillas in one large family grouping and bring in a totally unrelated male - perhaps the one from Dublin
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I'm continuing with this here, as despite not being about Blackpool, its to avoid it getting 'lost'....

I would go for option 'No 2' also as SamSam seems unlikely to breed again- he only ever bred once (offspring Sekondi at Edinburgh- sent to Twycross) and seems pretty disinterested in females.. Bongo has always been a rather 'butch'(masculine) female and is also unlikely to breed with any male at her advanced age. So making them into a pair would be a good option. That leaves 'Biddy' 'Asante' & 'Ozala'(plus her son Matadi) for a new male.

One reason Twycross have been so slow to replace' Sekondi' in the existing 2nd group is because they're worried about the safety of the juvenile 'Matadi' (SamSam's 5yrs old grandson). 'Kesho'(10) at Dublin lives in their group with his two younger brothers, the elder being the same age as 'Matadi' so I'm sure they would get along fine. He's also completely unrelated, mother-reared and ready to be moved- what more could they want!!
 
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scottie31 said:
they have neither moved a bull in or moved the females out....they are just there.
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One of the younger ones born at the Zoo is now living at Whipsnade, though the reason was more to do with her being disruptive in their group than because they wanted to breed from her.

I don't think Twycross will ever keep a bull -unless there's a huge shift in their policy. And by the time any of the young bulls at Whipsnade are old enough to breed, Twycross's females would all be facing reproductive problems from lack of breeding.:(
 
Pertinax said:
One of the younger ones born at the Zoo is now living at Whipsnade, though the reason was more to do with her being disruptive in their group than because they wanted to breed from her.
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I heard that she was also become aggresive towards the keepers and because they didn't want to stop free contact with them they moved her :confused:
 
Pertinax said:
I don't think Twycross will ever keep a bull -unless there's a huge shift in their policy. And by the time any of the young bulls at Whipsnade are old enough to breed, Twycross's females would all be facing reproductive problems from lack of breeding.:(
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Because of the way there outside enclosure is designed they could keep a bull in the house and lead the females down into the secound half of the enclosure and then close the gate given the male the house and the outdoor bit near the house. Not ideal I know but one why for them to get a natural breeding herd started.
 
Pertinax said:
One of the younger ones born at the Zoo is now living at Whipsnade, though the reason was more to do with her being disruptive in their group than because they wanted to breed from her.

(
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I knew about Karishma moving to whipsnade. What with the high number of young asian bulls born recently, its a shame that Twycross are likely to never keep one:(
 
Back to Jitu!!

Are any more males going to join Jitu in Valencia? They only have 1.2 as a breeding group at the moment. Also When is Bukavu coming to Blackpool, soon i hope!
 
Upali said:
Back to Jitu!!

Are any more males going to join Jitu in Valencia? They only have 1.2 as a breeding group at the moment. Also When is Bukavu coming to Blackpool, soon i hope!
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I think Valencia must be currently rethinking their combinations. They were going to have a breeding group and a retirement(?) group which was initially 1.1(Catou & Dorle) from Duisburg. However Catou soon died and Dorle was added to the younger pair(Mambi & Fossey) though she's old and a non-breeder.
 
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scottie31 said:
I knew about Karishma moving to whipsnade. What with the high number of young asian bulls born recently, its a shame that Twycross are likely to never keep one:(
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They should never have aquired young females if they weren't prepared to keep a male.
 
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