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LIECOBOY

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Does anyone else find the Miami Seaquarium to be one of the most deplorable places ever for animals? Is this the best Miami can give?
 
LIECOBOY said:
Does anyone else find the Miami Seaquarium to be one of the most deplorable places ever for animals? Is this the best Miami can give?
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What are you talking about? I am a season pass holder and am at Miami Seaquarium often with my boys. While the park is not new and neat like Georgia Aquarium, I find nothing "deplorable" about it.

It is what it is: a year round outdoor oceanarium that is over 50 years old. Some of the structures are original and not what you would think to build today, but that is part of its charm. And nowhere else can you get as close to the animals during shows and presentations...certainly not at Sea World where you feel a hundred yards away in every stadium.

I don't know when you were there, or what your expectation level was, but Miami Seaquarium is one of my favorite places to take my boys.
 
as a conservation biology grad student, I find it irrelevent whether or not one gets close to the animals. What is important is the quality of life of a facility's fauna. Have you seen Lolita, my swimming pool is probably bigger than her tank. Numerous complaints by many parties have been made against the seaquarium. Many parents love to take their children to the circus yet many who are truly concerned with animal welfare (note I said welfare, not rights, I am not one of those animal liberators) know that the conditions in these places are completely inadequate. Just because a facility is old doesn't mean it has a free pass to skimp on exhibits. The Bronx Zoo is over a hundrd years old and every year it modernizes more and more of its exhibits. The Seaquarium has done none of this. Visit Miami Seaquarium News for more info.
 
Zander's Dad said:
I don't know when you were there, or what your expectation level was, but Miami Seaquarium is one of my favorite places to take my boys.
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Hi matey, have you seen this site? Miami Seaquarium News linked as seaprison.

Surely the acceptance of a facility like this. Is from a lack of information regarding basic care required for captive animals.
 
zooman said:
Hi matey, have you seen this site? Miami Seaquarium News linked as seaprison.

Surely the acceptance of a facility like this. Is from a lack of information regarding basic care required for captive animals.
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I have read information from that site, and you should take anything you read there with a huge grain of salt. The site is run by someone who proclaims himself to be an abolishionist and wants all aquariums holding dolphins to be shut down. He will say anything to make Seaquarium look bad. And he has admitted to paying people to go in there to break things to make them look bad.

LIECOBOY, I understand your thoughts on the matter, but have you seen and understood that Lolita is the longest living Orca in an aquarium setting? Seaquarium has dolphin living over 40 years of age, and sea lions living past 25 and 30? That falls under the category of doing something very, very right in my opinion.
 
Just because an animal lives for a very long time, does not mean the institution properly cares for it. These animals are highly social and active and require more than a small fish bowl to live in. If I placed you in a 4x4 jail cell, I could probably keep you alive for forty years just by feeding you and giving you periodic medical atention. But a life needs more than just food to be complete. There needs to be a way for a highly intelligent animal like the orca to fullfill its need for mental stimulation. Zander's Dad, I know you like to go there for family entertainment, but you should take your children to a place that will inspire respect for nature intuitavely. The Miami Metrozoo is an example of this. Or visit the Everglades. If children see animals like Lolita in such a small enclosure, they begin to get the impression than man has dominance over animals and we may do with them as we like. This is my argument. I am not asking for brand new enclosures with all the bells and whistles, but rather enclosues that are fair to the inhabitants.
 
I wasn't planning to visit the Seaquarium on my Florida. However, I saw a recent snap shot of a south american sealion there. And I was wondering if anyone been there lately and could confirm for me if it is true that they have the south american sealions. If so, I may like to pay a visit to that place.
 
Yep, the park was sold to another company not too long ago. Palace Entertainment, which is owned by Parques Reunidos, (which owns Marineland Antibes) bought it. So far, there hasn't been much information as to what this will mean for the Miami Seaquarium.
 
A flurry of Lolita specific news.

Whale activists appeal dismissal of Lolita lawsuit | News - Home

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2014/07/02/peta-challenging-feds-over-miami-seaquariums-lolita/

We can debate the size of Lolita's pool, but no, it is not below the minimum size. I looked it up. And she does have companion animals. I'm not surprised the lawsuit was dismissed and because I hate nuisance lawsuits and think that America is too lawsuit happy I hope it stays that way.

Also, the sale of the Seaquarium is now complete. Don't know what this will mean for the future of the Seaquarium.

Miami Seaquarium sale now complete - South Florida Business Journal

Arle?s Parques Reunidos picks up Miami Seaquarium | unquote.com

Maybe they will be willing/able to make some improvements on her living situation, eg larger pool, possibly another Orca. However I have heard rumors that applications for building permits have been made in the past, only to be denied by the Key. I'm told the park could use improvements on other areas as well (I read it was kind of rundown) but I have alas never been there so I can't say for sure.
 
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Marineland : Parques Reunidos va investir 30 millions d'euros en 3 ans

This appears to discuss both the Seaquarium and Marineland Antibes. It appears to be an interview with one of the higher ups in Parques Reunidos. Alas, my french is not as good as I would like it to be, so its up to the rest of you to tell me how relevant this is.

Parques Reunidos cierra la compra de un parque marino en EE UU | Empresas | Cinco Días

Spanish language article reporting the completion of the sale. It looks as if Parques Reunidos is trying to diversify and branch out (my Spanish is slightly better). This might be part of some kind of major campaign to make more money.

Parques Reunidos invierte 8,5 millones en la zona acuática del Parque Warner - elEconomista.es

Only tangently related, but they have been investing lately in other parks that they own. Like I said, could changes/renewed investment be in the works at the Seaquarium? That said I have a lousy understanding of the business world and I could be getting ahead of myself.
 
wensleydale said:
Marineland : Parques Reunidos va investir 30 millions d'euros en 3 ans

This appears to discuss both the Seaquarium and Marineland Antibes. It appears to be an interview with one of the higher ups in Parques Reunidos. Alas, my french is not as good as I would like it to be, so its up to the rest of you to tell me how relevant this is.

Parques Reunidos cierra la compra de un parque marino en EE UU | Empresas | Cinco Días

Spanish language article reporting the completion of the sale. It looks as if Parques Reunidos is trying to diversify and branch out (my Spanish is slightly better). This might be part of some kind of major campaign to make more money.

Parques Reunidos invierte 8,5 millones en la zona acuática del Parque Warner - elEconomista.es

Only tangently related, but they have been investing lately in other parks that they own. Like I said, could changes/renewed investment be in the works at the Seaquarium? That said I have a lousy understanding of the business world and I could be getting ahead of myself.
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I've heard that the Seaquarium has a good location, and apparently profits have been increasing the past few years. From what I hear, the entire Seaquarium is kind of run-down, and it sounds like the new company has been doing a lot of development in general lately, so I wouldn't be surprised if they were planning a big makeover for the park. But there still hasn't been any information as to what they plan on doing, for the animals or the park itself.

As for Lolita's tank size, apparently whether or not it's illegal depends on whether you count the little island in the middle used for slideouts. I would still hope that she can get a better tank, but apparently the inability to get a permit is getting in the way. I'm wondering if this larger, wealthier company with more influence might be able to more easily get the permit to expand.
 
TheMightyOrca said:
I've heard that the Seaquarium has a good location,
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I would have thought it would be hard to find a city animal collection with a better location from an aesthetic point of view (Taronga springs to mind but I've not been there to compare) - the views from around it are stunning - though driving in Miami is not so much fun and there has been storm damage to the site (and, sadly, animal collection before now).


TheMightyOrca said:
As for Lolita's tank size, apparently whether or not it's illegal depends on whether you count the little island in the middle used for slideouts. I would still hope that she can get a better tank, but apparently the inability to get a permit is getting in the way. I'm wondering if this larger, wealthier company with more influence might be able to more easily get the permit to expand.
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I'm probably more forgiving than I should be with enclosure sizes in general, but I wasn't entirely sure the pool was a big as I'd have liked for the Pacific White-sided Dolphins (which were the main reason I visited), let alone the Killer Whale...

It's a very interesting site, though, and I enjoyed the 1950s architecture and atmosphere - just would rather that didn't extend to the biggest resident.

I still have quite a few photos to post from Florida - I might skip ahead a day or so and post Seaquarium while I'm thinking about it.
 
I would hope that they could find some way of keeping the old timey atmosphere while making improvements on the animal enclosures, etc. For all of the Seaquarium's flaws it still seems like a place I would like to visit. Not too overstimulating. Laid back. I've said before that I get overstimulated somewhat easily, I'm like the animals in that sense.

Maybe they could build some kind of canal (maybe that wouldn't work though) to a larger pool area where she could go in between shows. From what I've heard the USDA or whoever does the inspections does not consider the island to be a problem.
 
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Uh-oh, here it comes, lots of bickering, nasty comments, and worst of all the possible use of an animal and her caregivers as a pawn.:(

Sorry.

OSHA has fined the Seaquarium for allowing unprotected contact with Lolita. This may be interesting and/or painful to watch (my opinion).

Miami Seaquarium fined by OSHA | News - Home

Miami Seaquarium Fined by OSHA | NBC 6 South Florida

My own opinion is that making them use protected contact would be unnecessary, given that to the best of my knowledge Lolita/Tokitae has never shown any aggression towards her trainers, likes to have them down there with her (only only have one quote on this then, maybe she just liked that one trainer), and is a fish eater.
 
wensleydale said:
Uh-oh, here it comes, lots of bickering, nasty comments, and worst of all the possible use of an animal and her caregivers as a pawn.:(

Sorry.

OSHA has fined the Seaquarium for allowing unprotected contact with Lolita. This may be interesting and/or painful to watch (my opinion).

Miami Seaquarium fined by OSHA | News - Home

Miami Seaquarium Fined by OSHA | NBC 6 South Florida

My own opinion is that making them use protected contact would be unnecessary, given that to the best of my knowledge Lolita/Tokitae has never shown any aggression towards her trainers, likes to have them down there with her (only only have one quote on this then, maybe she just liked that one trainer), and is a fish eater.
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I'm curious, do you know if there are any laws regarding requirements of protected contact and the like with captive wild animals? Even if Lolita hasn't shown aggression (and given that's she gone 40 years without it, I rather doubt it will happen) she's still a large, wild animal, so there's always going to be risk, so I suppose I can understand. Still, could something like Ringling Bros. circus be charged if they don't practice protected contact? Fatal orca attacks may make big news (because of how rare they are) but an elephant or tiger is more likely to kill or injure someone. While I won't deny that I hate her living conditions, I don't know if I can support this fine unless there's consistency from OSHA/law enforcement/whatever.
 
I will look up protected contact when I have a good chunk of time in which to do it. It's not that I don't want to, its that I have other commitments. I did think that the protected contact rule only applied to SeaWorld Orlando. And we walk around with cattle on leadlines. I would honestly rather put a bull under protected contact (did you know that a calm bull is a called a widowmaker?) than I would Lolita, but do they require it? Not that I know of. I'll ask the farmer I know when I get a chance.

At least we can count our blessings that Lolita isn't subject to food deprivation, has cool water, and hasn't been subject to repeated upheavals. Yes I do want her living space improved through.
 
Miami Seaquarium fined by OSHA | News - Home

An article which adds a little more to the whole citation story. Apparently this may have all been brought on by an animal rights group(s). There is a link to the citation within the article. Frankly I'm not happy if the citation was brought on by animal rights groups, because frankly to me that is a sign that it was brought for ideological reasons rather than concern for the safety of anyone that works with her. The last thing we need right now is trainer safety being used as a pawn.
 
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