ZSL London Zoo ZSL London Zoo News 2014

Frankly I'd prefer to see the Francois' langurs kept on in the new exhibit: they are there already and appear to be doing well at Regents Park, moreover they are rare and attractive monkeys. Actually I'd prefer to see a nice group of lion-tailed macaques rather than Hanuman langurs if an Indian species is essential.
I presume that the vultures will be kept in the aviary that will replace the wader's aviary, which was allocated for hornbills in the original plans. I wonder if this will be large enough for a breeding pair.

I would like to see the Francois' Langurs retained too- but maybe displayed somewhere more appropriate to their distribution. Lion-tailed Macaques are good too but they do live in a very different part of India, and in a very specific habitat- so if they are trying to be habitat-linked with this display, I would say Liontails would actually work against that. IMO Hanuman Langurs would still fit the bill best. I guess the outcome will depend on how much the Zoo are prepared to replace or add to the stock they hold already and what else that fits is actually available.

Vultures- I don't suppose if the Lion enclosure is a netted space that they'd be bold enough to try and keep Vultures in with the Lions?:eek: Looking at the new 'Tiger Territory' recently I was thinking of that huge wasted airspace with nothing using it.
 
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Does anyone know if Sid the red ruffed Lemar has been move to Whipsnade?

Quality enclosures not quantity for me, although i wouldn't want to lose the Francois' Langurs as they are a very active little group. I'm really not a great fan of the Colobus enclosure, there is enough space in that section to extend it quite easily, it could even merge with the old gibbon enclosure and wrap around the corner.
 
I dare say I'll get attacked for being negative, but has anybody seen the present status of Semnopithecus (entellus langurs)in Europe? Two collections hold S.hector, whilst the rest are simply generic animals - in other words, of no conservation importance.

As for holding 11-12 lions; well, that's not how lions live in the Gir Forest. Most prides have only two females. Exceptionally, they might hold five. When the biggest natural prey item is Nilgai, and the thicker cover allows males to hunt successfully for themselves they don't need to behave like lions do in East Africa.

Vultures - different story. ZSL's contribution to the conservation of Indian vultures is something worth shouting about, and surely far more important than anything it might do with Asiatic Lions.

As far as the rest is concerned; it's been said before that for a capital city zoo to only have two species of cat is sad, but why only four species of monkey? A good, representative show of monkeys is something that could be achieved at London very easily, either by the utilisation of the Snowdon Aviary (which I'd personally demolish!!), by use of the canal banks, or by re-interpreting the West African theming of Gorilla Kingdom (somewhat flawed now by having Red-faced Spider Monkeys!), or a combination of these. Why must London Zoo ALWAYS be in the business of reducing its mammal collection?

Really. I see what you mean
 
Sid is in the offshow enclosure behind the Tiger Territory Pool - Apparently he is occasionally walked into the open areas of the zoo. You can often see him if you look into the first enclosure as you take the slope upto Tiger Territory.

Here's a picture I took on 15 Aug

http://www.zoochat.com/43/red-ruffed-lemur-august-2014-a-376430/

Ok, someone mentioned that a ruffed lemur had moved in with the ring tailed lemurs at Whipsnade so i thought it was Sid. Thanks
 
. . . and another thing. ZSL have spent millions on the gorillas, penguins, tigers etc in recent years and will spend plenty more on the Indian lions and their neighbours to be. But there haven't been many smaller scale upgrades apart from the refurbishment of the tapir enclosure for the pygmy hippos and the rebuilding of the aviary on north bank of the canal (has that started yet?). How about a small, relatively cheap, exhibit in a quiet part of the Zoo for the aye-ayes? Of course it would need to be well designed, and viewing might have to be restricted; so it might not have much appeal as a poster on the Tube, but fluffy toy aye-ayes might sell well for Halloween :) Please. Pretty please.

Alan
 
. . . and another thing. ZSL have spent millions on the gorillas, penguins, tigers etc in recent years and will spend plenty more on the Indian lions and their neighbours to be. But there haven't been many smaller scale upgrades apart from the refurbishment of the tapir enclosure for the pygmy hippos and the rebuilding of the aviary on north bank of the canal (has that started yet?). How about a small, relatively cheap, exhibit in a quiet part of the Zoo for the aye-ayes? Of course it would need to be well designed, and viewing might have to be restricted; so it might not have much appeal as a poster on the Tube, but fluffy toy aye-ayes might sell well for Halloween :) Please. Pretty please.

Alan

Or simply return them to the Lubetkin Gorilla House! With a simple refurb, youve got a "Mini Madagascar" with one half aye-aye and the other half ring-tails! A fantastic species may I add Alan.:cool:
 
. . . and the rebuilding of the aviary on north bank of the canal (has that started yet?).

How about a small, relatively cheap, exhibit in a quiet part of the Zoo for the aye-ayes?

Nope, not the other week anyway.

Was thinking during my visit what a pity it was they have such an interesting species as AyeAye yet they are offshow.
 
. . . But there haven't been many smaller scale upgrades apart from the refurbishment of the tapir enclosure for the pygmy hippos and the rebuilding of the aviary on north bank of the canal


I disagree. What about the reindeer enclosure? The camel enclosure? The aviaries around the lion terraces? The recent changes to the mappins allowing kangaroos to join the collection? Refurbs of the vivaria in the reptile house? The addition of vicuña? Fruit bats in the Lubetkin roundhouse interior? Additional species in the rainforest? These are all smallish scale additions or modifications over the last couple of years.
 
I disagree. What about the reindeer enclosure? The camel enclosure? The aviaries around the lion terraces? The recent changes to the mappins allowing kangaroos to join the collection? Refurbs of the vivaria in the reptile house? The addition of vicuña? Fruit bats in the Lubetkin roundhouse interior? Additional species in the rainforest? These are all smallish scale additions or modifications over the last couple of years.

Oh, please. Bactrian Camels and Reindeer that are offshoots of the herds at Whipsnade, and are domesticated anyway? :rolleyes:

The Mappins are crying out for a high profile species; at no stage in their history has the Zoo's single most dramatic exhibit been at such a low ebb.

The Rodrigues Fruit Bats were already there in the Clore - all that has happened is that their move means that the Aye-Aye are off exhibit. And the amphibian displays in the Reptile House have removed a great deal of apace for displaying smaller reptiles. Vicuna are a nice addition, I grant you, but they are offset against the loss of Lowland Anoa, Bongo, Arabian Oryx and Arabian Gazelle.

I repeat, and with no pleasure at all, because I love London Zoo, that this loss of diversity simply isn't good enough for a zoo with London's traditions, situated in one of Europe's biggest cities.
 
I disagree. What about the reindeer enclosure? The camel enclosure? The aviaries around the lion terraces? The recent changes to the mappins allowing kangaroos to join the collection? Refurbs of the vivaria in the reptile house? The addition of vicuña? Fruit bats in the Lubetkin roundhouse interior? Additional species in the rainforest? These are all smallish scale additions or modifications over the last couple of years.

Thanks, you saved me having to say it, when they are not building a large project they will be doing something on a small scale.
 
Ian, my post was a response to the statement that "there haven't been many smaller scale upgrades apart from the refurbishment of the tapir enclosure for the pygmy hippos and the rebuilding of the aviary on north bank of the canal".

You might not think much of these developments but for example, the fact is that going from a space with nothing to a space with reindeer is a small scale upgrade.
 
I disagree. What about the reindeer enclosure? The camel enclosure? The aviaries around the lion terraces? The recent changes to the mappins allowing kangaroos to join the collection? Refurbs of the vivaria in the reptile house? The addition of vicuña? Fruit bats in the Lubetkin roundhouse interior? Additional species in the rainforest? These are all smallish scale additions or modifications over the last couple of years.

To quote Evelyn Waugh 'Up to a point, Lord Copper' - which is a polite way of saying no.
I'll stretch a point and accept the reindeer, perhaps I was wrong in thinking they arrived before the other changes I mentioned. I confess that I did forget the wooden aviaries by the old penguin pool. But refurbishment of vivaria and aquaria in the Reptile House, the Aquarium, the Clore (I'm still in old money) or B.U.G.S. are as routine as adding new species to the butterfly display or the rainforest. I'm talking about structural developments not adding/subtracting species to existing enclosures or essentially cosmetic changes like the Mappins Aussie facelift.
But even if all these changes are far more significant than I think they are, it doesn't affect my key point: why can't ZSL find a good way to put the aye-ayes on display? Are they really less interesting or important than vicuna or reindeer? Are they less marketable than camels? Are they too sensitive to face the London public? Is their present off-show accommodation so ideal that they cannot be moved?
The other collections that are fortunate enough to have aye-ayes manage to display them and I spent quite a time in the old Round House watching them when I could do so. I'd like to be able to see them again.

Alan
 
Lions

According to Westminster Council's Twitter account:-


Westminster Council @CityWestminster · 5h

Planning committee tonight, just started. Standing room only. London Zoo's revamped lion enclosure is up for decision later... #wccplanning


Westminster Council @CityWestminster · 3h

Great news @zsllondonzoo, your exciting new Lion enclosure has just roared through our planning committee! #wccplanning
 
To quote Evelyn Waugh 'Up to a point, Lord Copper' - which is a polite way of saying no.

So you mean there aren't enough medium scale structural developments. really, you can't win here. There has been a constant stream of large scale developments over the last years with more to come in the coming years. There have been a handful of small developments as I have mentioned. But you are complaining that there aren't enough other developments?

I do agree with you on the aye-ayes. I don't understand why they aren't on display and find it enormously frustrating.

Great news @zsllondonzoo, your exciting new Lion enclosure has just roared through our planning committee! #wccplanning

Excellent news, thank you for sharing that.
 
The aye-ayes must be ancient by now, and unless I've missed his replacement at some point, the male is not a suitable animal for display. He used to stereotype quite a lot in the presence of visitors, so I'm assuming this reduced once they were brought off-exhibit. I'm pleased they've got the relative privacy of the off-show wing of the Clore. Given they're no longer in a reverse-lighting enclosure, I'd hope they'd have access to one of the outdoor enclosures at the back of the building. Given London has experience in their husbandry now, perhaps they will be one of the first to receive new animals in a few years if the Duke University export restarts breeding at Jersey.

Regarding the aardvarks, if indeed they only hold one, this could be on account of them having had two females until now, rather than due to a death. I'm not sure they didn't think they had 1.1 when they arrived as young animals, so perhaps a male is due to arrive at some point.

Regarding the wild dogs, I remember someone on here alluding to there being at least one litter born that wasn't successfully raised. The enclosure is relatively good, but disturbance from the passing narrowboat (parties, tours, engines) and towpath literally feet from the enclosure is a variable the zoo can't control, including after hours. If the numbers are dwindling with no successful rearing, perhaps the supposedly temporary arrival of the cheetahs this year seems less random. It's not as if wild dogs could not be housed well at Whipsnade.

Has anyone seen the hummingbirds since the comment about them having gone from the bird house? They would have been unlucky to have lost all three, perhaps they are trying them offshow this year having had no successful breeding so far (in contrast to the sunbirds).

Someone mentioned the gibbons being inbred. I'm aware they are a hybrid animal mixed with a white-cheeked animal. What's the story with this pair? For years there was a thriving group of lar gibbons, then they tried them on Bear Mountain and they suddenly disappeared from the zoo. How did ZSL come to hold a pair of different species, one of which is a hybrid?

While I don't believe the story that the hippos are being 'reunited' in order for them to breed, I do wonder what the reccomendation is from the EEP that has resulted in them being housed without any breeding for so long, they must be of low value overall to the programme. Pygmy hippos often breed in fairly basic conditions, so I can't imagine the previous enclosures being the only obstacle to breeding.

Regarding the Lion redevelopment, it's a good thing that they're going to focus on their in situ vulture conservation. I think even if the captive birds don't breed (going on the lack of success with vultures elsewhere in the zoo), the importance of using them to highlight ZSL's work outweighs this.

Clearly ZSL are going to attempt to secure Hanuman or some subspecies of tufted langur for the lion exhibit. They have a long history successfully breeding grey langurs and only a few recent years without any. To the average visitor, London zoo is crawling with monkeys! There are more areas in the zoo where monkeys or other primates are kept, compared to 20 years ago, even if overall there are less species. I imagine at least one of the primate species to leave the lion terraces will return, I can't for example see London deciding to stop holding gibbons permanently, but any new enclosure will likely be a 'small-scale upgrade', rather than something major, I'm sure. The old dog cages which were originally in the plans for Tiger Territory as an offshow outdoor cubbing enclosure may still be redeveloped at some point, but I would imagine London want to have redeveloped most of the main eyesores before bringing back any species that don't have immediate marketing power (eg. reindeer).

I include myself in this, but in terms of the sort of detail discussed on this site, I often wonder what a surreal experience it must be for London Zoo keepers to read threads of this kind, if they ever do.
 
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I can't for example see London deciding to stop holding gibbons permanently, but any new enclosure will likely be a 'small-scale upgrade', rather than something major, I'm sure.

The older, admittedly rather ugly enclosure in the centre of the Zoo that used to house the Lar Gibbon family had two things subsequent enclosures have lacked for Gibbons- height and length, allowing them to 'travel' around the enclosure. Sadly the Gibbons since at London have been displayed in small, low cages which don't afford them any scope- they are consequently inactive and always look rather forlorn to me.

The other very suitable enclosure for Gibbons is at Whipsnade- the moated island with several tall trees that used to house them in the past.
 
I thought the current gibbons were actually father and son.

So I have been given to understand, although I must admit that when I visited on Monday it actually appeared to be the larger of the two animals that looked like a hybrid. Of course, the younger animal *could* be larger....
 
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