Edinburgh Zoo Edinburgh Zoo News 2014

Shorts said:
It's interesting to consider the following financial figures from the Scottish Charities Commission website summaries:

2009: £300k surplus
2010: £500k deficit
2011: £700k deficit
2012: £1.5m surplus!
2013: Not filed on site yet (which is a shame as they'd make very interesting reading regarding the financial success, or otherwise, of the Panda rentals.

It's interesting to note that there's not been any significant noticeable improvements or new exhibits (Meerkat enclosure aside) since the Penguin enclosure was (very well) re-furbished over two years ago. If they are running a surplus from the Pandas it's not immediately obvious what the spare money's being spent on.
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I wouldn't be surprised if the zoo is holding back some of the money they have made for a little while. There's no point in spending all their 'profit' from the pandas on new exhibits straight away when they have another 6 years paying for the pandas. If they spend all the money they have got and then there's a sudden drop off in visitors they could end up in the red because they've spent their 'profit'. I think they are keeping some money back just incase and I think that it's a rather sensible approach to be honest.
 
Mr T said:
I wouldn't be surprised if the zoo is holding back some of the money they have made for a little while. There's no point in spending all their 'profit' from the pandas on new exhibits straight away when they have another 6 years paying for the pandas. If they spend all the money they have got and then there's a sudden drop off in visitors they could end up in the red because they've spent their 'profit'. I think they are keeping some money back just in case and I think that it's a rather sensible approach to be honest.
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Fair & reasonable point, but if that's the logic it doesn't show a lot of confidence in the long-term viability of the "Panda project". Like I said, I think the 2013 figures will give a good indication of how things are likely to turn out long-term (obviously, all conclusions are off if there's ever any babies).

One other point from my recent visit was that they've stopped providing the land-train to the top of the hill -which may be cost cutting but is definitely not a visitor friendly change.
 
Viewed in simplistic economic terms, the Chinese are behaving like archetypal monopolists. They have sole control of all Giant Pandas (the aging females in Mexico City apart), as the agreements made with zoos in the last twenty years mean that even young born remain Chinese property.

I do wonder how long this will remain the same. Giant Pandas are being born in large numbers in China, and several overseas zoos (notably San Diego and Vienna) are breeding their animals regularly. And just how many non-holding zoos are left that might be prepared to take on the cost and could realistically expect to make the animals pay their way? The Bronx? West Berlin? Not many others spring to mind.

Given that there's been no large increase in viable Giant Panda habitat for potential re-introductions, something is going to have to change.
 
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Mr T said:
There's no point in spending all their 'profit' from the pandas on new exhibits straight away when they have another 6 years paying for the pandas.
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They don't need new exhibits, just animals to fill all the empty ones! ;)
 
Off the top of my head from my last couple of visits, the former penguin one at the left of Carnivore row, the former Maned Wolf/Wolf one behind the tigers, at least one of the ones in Carnivore row, one of the small carnivore houses (Now Margay I suspect), the former Polecat one to the East of the playpark, the former Heck Cattle one at the top of the hill, and the former Meerkat circle.
 
Davef68 said:
Off the top of my head from my last couple of visits, the former penguin one at the left of Carnivore row, the former Maned Wolf/Wolf one behind the tigers, at least one of the ones in Carnivore row, one of the small carnivore houses (Now Margay I suspect), the former Polecat one to the East of the playpark, the former Heck Cattle one at the top of the hill, and the former Meerkat circle.
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Has something been done with the Patagonian Sea Lion exhibit at the entrance as that had been empty for a while. Also on my last two visits some enclosures that weren't empty had the same species as in other enclosures.
 
Davef68 said:
Off the top of my head from my last couple of visits, the former penguin one at the left of Carnivore row, the former Maned Wolf/Wolf one behind the tigers, at least one of the ones in Carnivore row, one of the small carnivore houses (Now Margay I suspect), the former Polecat one to the East of the playpark, the former Heck Cattle one at the top of the hill, and the former Meerkat circle.
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From my last visit-the former penguin one on carnivore row has several smew in it (as it did outside of breeding season last year as well) and the Heck cattle has had rhea and vicuna in it but that may have just been part of resting/allowing recovery of various paddocks. I also thought the maned wolf one had some kind of deer in, but I haven't seen anything in there for ages so that may have been temporary too.

I would have expected the empty cat row enclosures would be opened up to allow the remaining cats more room, but that hadn't happened last time I saw it-I think there are multiple empty enclosures there.

The old sea lion enclosure is the site of the new meerkat enclosure.

On my last visit it felt less empty than it has for the last year or so for me, but still room for improvement.
 
For casual visitors, it's a much more interesting exhibit than sealions that spend 90% of their time either swimming round in a circle or sleeping. Even for some non-casual visitors!

The animals are almost always active and the low glass fronted enclosure also brings people much closer to the animals (although I suspect they may have to change that if anyone gets bitten!)

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They also took the opportunity to make a more plaza like entrance. Since the original plan to move the entrance to the front of Budongo was dropped, they have been looking for an 'impact' exhibit for the front.
 
I have long thought that environmental factors play a significant part in achieving breeding success with Giant Pandas, in addition their food source is crucial of course, and there has been some recent studies on which species of bamboo is preferred, so there maybe more to this than we realise.

But I honestly do think that the zoo are, privately, getting quite desperate for the pandas to reproduce and the longer it goes on without any cubs the worse that is going to get. Unless something drastic changes. It would appear that the zoo are tied into this ten year contract with the same pair ?? Anyone know different on that ?? I hate to say it, but on the face of it, it would appear that this pair are just not going to produce the goods ?
The pair seem quite incompatible ? Last resort artificial insemination, by the top people around no less, has failed twice, so where does that leave things now ?
 
Nanook said:
I have long thought that environmental factors play a significant part in achieving breeding success with Giant Pandas, in addition their food source is crucial of course, and there has been some recent studies on which species of bamboo is preferred, so there maybe more to this than we realise.

But I honestly do think that the zoo are, privately, getting quite desperate for the pandas to reproduce and the longer it goes on without any cubs the worse that is going to get. Unless something drastic changes. It would appear that the zoo are tied into this ten year contract with the same pair ?? Anyone know different on that ?? I hate to say it, but on the face of it, it would appear that this pair are just not going to produce the goods ?
The pair seem quite incompatible ? Last resort artificial insemination, by the top people around no less, has failed twice, so where does that leave things now ?
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Up the creak with out a paddle!
 
Both attempts at AI appear to have been successful in terms of conception, but failed to carry to term. They would have more info if they were able to ultrasound scan the panda, to confirm that, but my understanding is she won't co-operate and they don't want to stress her by using anesthesia.

The things they have 'discovered' about the pandas - they don't like wind, they don't like noise - does make me wonder about the whole suitability of that location.
 
Wouldn't it be funny if the panda gave birth tomorrow and knocked the politicians off the front page!
 
Latest email from RZSS this morning:

Tian Tian’s hormone levels have now returned to normal, so we can confirm that she is no longer pregnant. Panda reproduction and biology is complex; all data gathered since conception took place pointed to a pregnant panda likely to carry to full term, sadly this did not happen. There is no evidence she has had a miscarriage, so late reabsorption of the foetus could have occurred.

“Although Tian Tian has not successfully given birth, it is important for her individual biology as a female giant panda and for the future of giant panda conservation across the globe that we tried. We will also be reviewing all our data and procedures from this year and last.

“The team continue to monitor Tian Tian and she is in great health. The specialist team here and international colleagues will thoroughly review every aspect of how we care for her.

“From today (Monday 22 September) we will be opening the outdoor viewing area of Tian Tian and Yang Guang’s enclosures at Edinburgh Zoo; pre-booking to view the pandas over the first week will not be required – walk-up tickets will be issued on the day; however, we would recommend you book online using the normal booking system from the afternoon of Monday 22 September if you are visiting between the 29 September and 31 October.”
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Davef68 said:
Both attempts at AI appear to have been successful in terms of conception, but failed to carry to term. They would have more info if they were able to ultrasound scan the panda, to confirm that, but my understanding is she won't co-operate and they don't want to stress her by using anesthesia.

The things they have 'discovered' about the pandas - they don't like wind, they don't like noise - does make me wonder about the whole suitability of that location.
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Dave, do you mean by location the actual zoo itself or the refurbished gorilla house that the giant panda reside in?
 
Davef68 said:
For casual visitors, it's a much more interesting exhibit than sealions that spend 90% of their time either swimming round in a circle or sleeping. Even for some non-casual visitors!

The animals are almost always active and the low glass fronted enclosure also brings people much closer to the animals (although I suspect they may have to change that if anyone gets bitten!)

MeerkatPlazaOpens_credit_IvonB_300x450.jpg


620x300_crop.jpg


They also took the opportunity to make a more plaza like entrance. Since the original plan to move the entrance to the front of Budongo was dropped, they have been looking for an 'impact' exhibit for the front.
Click to expand...

I agree it does make an interesting, attractive new exhibit for the visitors when they enter the zoo, albeit meerkats, certainly an improvement to what they had last year when I visited, an sealion pool with no animals in it.
 
Both, just look at all the changes they have had to make to the enclosures since the Pandas arrived (in spite of them being custom converted). External climbing frames, internal swings, new rubberised flooring etc etc.

I don't know how or where Tian Tian was previously housed when she gave birth, but I'm betting it wasn't in the middle of a city, nor in close proximity to a male Panada.
 
Shorts said:
Fair & reasonable point, but if that's the logic it doesn't show a lot of confidence in the long-term viability of the "Panda project". Like I said, I think the 2013 figures will give a good indication of how things are likely to turn out long-term (obviously, all conclusions are off if there's ever any babies).

One other point from my recent visit was that they've stopped providing the land-train to the top of the hill -which may be cost cutting but is definitely not a visitor friendly change.
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Is the withdrawn land train a permanent or temporary measure?, I hope it is just the latter as although I have never personally used it, it was of great benefit to visitors who were elderly or not so good on their legs due to the hilly nature of this zoo. I also remember a few years ago an Edinburgh Land Rover dealer had kindly donated a new Land Rover to haul this land train.
 
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