Thylacine at Chester Zoo in 1932 ?

Q

Quarrion

Member
I've registered here just to post something I read today. I've lurked on these forums for years, and I think you'll like this.

This morning I downloaded the autobiographical book 'Our Zoo' by June Mottershead onto my kindle. It's been released on the back of the TV series.

This is a quote from 24% of the way into the book (sorry, no page number on a kindle). It's at the point where the old Shavington Zoo is closing down, and leftover stock is given to Chester.

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"There was Lulu the ring-tailed lemur, who was really a pet and didn't get on with other monkeys. Then there was a Tamanian devil, a vicious marsupial with stripes on it's back going from side to side, that looked like a dog and whom I absolutely hated. Luckily he didn't stay long as Dad didn't like him either and exchanged him for something else."


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What do you make of that? It doesn't sound like a Tazzie devil to me...OK, June was only six at this point, and she's an old lady now. And, OK, she classes lemurs with monkeys... but... I must confess I actually gasped when I read this passage.

Any thoughts?
 
That is very interesting. Tasmanian Devil young are not striped, the colour doesn't change as they grow, so I think you might be right.
Edit - should also add that as primates, classing lemurs and monkeys together then would not have been unusual.
 
Well the old records of species kept by the zoo in the zoo,does list them as having kept Tasmanian Devil but NOT a Thylacine,as far as I know the only place in the UK to have ever kept a Thylacine is London Zoo!
 
Zoogiraffe, it's possible though, that they did not know what it was and if it was exchanged for something else, got overlooked later on, isn't it and that would be very exciting.
 
Even if it was a Tasmanian Devil, it probably was not worth it but then in 1980s we would have jumped at the chance of seeing one of those meerkats!
 
Thirty or so years earlier maybe. Not by 1932 (London's last had died a year earlier). More likely memory has played funny tricks over a period of 80 years.
 
@ Pacu given that as Ian Robinson says the last Thylacine at London died in 1931,I think its safe to say that it would not have been a Thylacine!Also back in the 1980's I would have jumped at the chance of seeing a Meerkat as they just were not about back then its only since the mid to late 90's that those damn things have exploded all over the UK!!!
 
Quarrion said:
Then there was a Tamanian devil, a vicious marsupial with stripes on it's back going from side to side, that looked like a dog and whom I absolutely hated. Luckily he didn't stay long as Dad didn't like him either and exchanged him for something else."
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This is intriguing; the description of a dog-like marsupial with stripes certainly sounds like a thylacine but it is highly improbable that it really was a thylacine.

London Zoo’s last thylacine (the twentieth one at London Zoo) arrived in 1926 and died there, in the North Mammal House, on 9th August 1931; this animal is generally considered to be the last living thylacine outside Tasmania.

I would love to know more about the mystery animal at Chester; however I really think is extremely doubtful that there was a thylacine at Chester at this time.
 
Quarrion said:
It doesn't sound like a Tazzie devil to me...OK, June was only six at this point, and she's an old lady now.
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As far as is known, only London zoo kept Thylacines in the UK. By 1932 they were so rare as to be virtually unobtainable even within Tasmania, let alone anywhere else.

My take on this would be, if indeed Chester had a Tasmanian Devil, that she remembered the 'Tasmanian' name of the animal and that it was 'fierce'. When it came to writing about it many years later, her memory was hazy so she had to reference it and in so doing, confused it with Thylacine (Tasmanian Tiger, not Devil) and so by mistake gave it the physical description fitting the Thylacine. Behaviour-wise her memory was probably better- Devils can indeed appear 'fierce', but Thylacines were a lot less so. So writer's error/license I would think.
 
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I agree that it is, most likely, a mix up. As they say, "when you hear hoof beats, think horses, not zebras." and, it follows that "When you hear paw-pads, think devils, not thylacines..."

BUT, I agree with Pacu that there is a chance - it was very early days, and probably quite a confusion of animals coming in an influx from Shavington (including Punch the polar bear, who probably took most of the attention.).

I think it would be worth bringing the passage to the attention of Shavington zoo / Chester zoo historians.. or even asking June herself, if anyone is in contact with her? If she saw pictures of both species, she might be able to confirm which one it was.

This is almost cryptozoology :cool:
 
In fact, I'm surprised it wasn't picked up at the editing stage, wouldn't someone at the zoo have read the manuscript before publication and thought "whaat...?"
 
When I researched Shavington Zoo (some years ago now) I used 3 main sources:

1. The local press of the period, which had quite a lot of coverage of events at the zoo;
2. A ledger kept by the proprieters in the 1930-32 period which contained details of some (but not all) of the species kept;
3. Conversations with people who had worked at/ visited the collection.

In none of these sources did I find any suggestion of Thylacine (I would have noticed!) nor - as far as I can recall - Tasmanian Devil.
 
Pertinax said:
As far as is known, only London zoo kept Thylacines in the UK. By 1932 they were so rare as to be virtually unobtainable even within Tasmania, let alone anywhere else.

My take on this would be, if indeed Chester had a Tasmanian Devil, that she remembered the 'Tasmanian' name of the animal and that it was 'fierce'. When it came to writing about it many years later, her memory was hazy so she had to reference it and in so doing, confused it with Thylacine (Tasmanian Tiger, not Devil) and so by mistake gave it the physical description fitting the Thylacine. Behaviour-wise her memory was probably better- Devils can indeed appear 'fierce', but Thylacines were a lot less so. So writer's error/license I would think.
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I think Pertinax is probably spot-on here.

The main source of animals at Shavington was Rogers, the Liverpool dealer and zg proprieter. I seem to recall, from some notes prepared by John Edwards on ZSL Thylacines, that some animals arrived via Liverpool dealer Cross in the 1880s - so Liverpool as an entry point would be a possibility.

The last ZSL Thylacine came from Chapman in 1926 (I believe) and Shavington did buy marmoset/tamarind from Chapman in 1930. If Chapman could obtain a specimen in 1926 it is at least possible that he could have acquired one in c.1930 (?) and if ZSL didn't want it ......

And, just to throw in a further piece of info which may - or may not - be relevant, when I was researching Shavington 20 years ago (!) I was told that they "had a hyena, which escaped and had to be caught" [or similar].

Make of all this what you will ... :)
 
SHAVINGTONZOO said:
I seem to recall, from some notes prepared by John Edwards on ZSL Thylacines, that some animals arrived via Liverpool dealer Cross in the 1880s - so Liverpool as an entry point would be a possibility.
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Yes, London Zoo received a pair of thylacines from Cross in 1888; the female died shortly afterwards and the male was returned to Cross; I don’t know what happened to it subsequently.

SHAVINGTONZOO said:
The last ZSL Thylacine came from Chapman in 1926 (I believe) ...
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Yes the last ZSL thylacine was purchased from Chapman in 1926 for £150; it was apparently one of a pair but the male died in transit.
 
Tim May said:
Yes, London Zoo received a pair of thylacines from Cross in 1888; the female died shortly afterwards and the male was returned to Cross; I don’t know what happened to it subsequently.



Yes the last ZSL thylacine was purchased from Chapman in 1926 for £150; it was apparently one of a pair but the male died in transit.
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Nobody else knows what happened to this one either....

That was because the boat carrying them wasn't allowed to dock and its cargo unloaded, due to a dock strike- so they were kept on board ship for up to six months apparently- amazing even one of them survived that.

As I mentioned above, I think the chances of this being a genuine Thylacine kept at Chester and at this date would be very,very slim indeed. Even Hobart Zoo, Tasmania did not have one at this date- their very last one arriving the next year, in 1933. If it was true and the date of 1932 was correct, then Chester would have had the second to last (documented) living specimen. I don't believe it but then of course anything is possible....
 
Very interesting discussion. Personally, I don't think it's true but it's certainly possible as others have said. I agree that this is likely due to a mix-up but maybe it'd be beneficial if someone followed Quarrion's suggestion and showed her photographs of the two species.

~Thylo:cool:
 
ThylacineAlive said:
Very interesting discussion. Personally, I don't think it's true but it's certainly possible as others have said. I agree that this is likely due to a mix-up but maybe it'd be beneficial if someone followed Quarrion's suggestion and showed her photographs of the two species.

~Thylo:cool:
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Possible is a considerable way from probable and plausible and even further away from potentially true (in the same way aliens visiting us from space is possible). :D

Personally I'm applying Occam's Razor to the matter and concluding, with others, that it's most likely a "memory mix-up".

One final point, I'm fairly certain that if there Thylacines at Chester in 1932 there would be some photographic evidence given the worldwide rarity of the species at that point in time.

I'm using my entire gullibility/dream quota on Thylacines to believe there's still some alive in Tasmania, not wasting it on this. :D
 
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