ZSL London Zoo giant pandas for London?
- Thread starter Chlidonias
- Start date
I can't see the Mappins being used for giant pandas - as Pertinax has said, they tend not to be very active and a sleeping panda in the middle of that space is too far away from the public to make any impression at all.
I think they would aim for a more complex, purpose-built environment, with off-show dens (perhaps with cctv cameras), a cubbing den, separate outdoor yards for each animal and a larger paddock for alternating use by the adults and for mixing during the mating season. I don't think there's enough space for that sort of thing at the moment, unless they demolish an awful lot, which is why I wonder if the ZSL would consider using some of the extra land that is available to them.
Alan
I think they would aim for a more complex, purpose-built environment, with off-show dens (perhaps with cctv cameras), a cubbing den, separate outdoor yards for each animal and a larger paddock for alternating use by the adults and for mixing during the mating season. I don't think there's enough space for that sort of thing at the moment, unless they demolish an awful lot, which is why I wonder if the ZSL would consider using some of the extra land that is available to them.
Alan
where abouts is this extra land they have available?
I think Gentle Lemur means the areas of undeveloped land within the zoo, principally the 'North Bank' area of the canal. (Yes or no?)
I can't see any reason for them to want to extend outside(even if they could) while there is unused land available in the Zoo.
Regarding Pandas, someone rightly pointed out above that Panda exhibits tend to be temporary as the timespan for them is normally only ten years- and could be less if no breeding or the adult(s) died for whatever reason. Both 'Chi Chi' and the more recent pair(Ching & Chia) exhibited at Regents Park lived in various enclosures renovated for them from existing exhibits. London COULD build a new enclosure for Pandas if they get them again, but sensibly it should be able to accomodate another species after the Pandas have gone. Taronga Park is an example- the Panda exhibit now houses Gorillas.
I think the Mappin 'terraces' has been so changed it couldn't be used anymore, quite apart from the fact that the scale of the Mappins is too big to successfully show Pandas to any good effect.
I can't see any reason for them to want to extend outside(even if they could) while there is unused land available in the Zoo.
Regarding Pandas, someone rightly pointed out above that Panda exhibits tend to be temporary as the timespan for them is normally only ten years- and could be less if no breeding or the adult(s) died for whatever reason. Both 'Chi Chi' and the more recent pair(Ching & Chia) exhibited at Regents Park lived in various enclosures renovated for them from existing exhibits. London COULD build a new enclosure for Pandas if they get them again, but sensibly it should be able to accomodate another species after the Pandas have gone. Taronga Park is an example- the Panda exhibit now houses Gorillas.
I think the Mappin 'terraces' has been so changed it couldn't be used anymore, quite apart from the fact that the scale of the Mappins is too big to successfully show Pandas to any good effect.
The North Bank (of the Regents Canal) is one possible area, but I do think that this could be an opportunity for the Zoo to exercise its option to use extra land from Regents Park (I presume that it's on the south-west boundary, behind the children's zoo).
If the ZSL actually get some pandas (and I'm still not completely convinced
) they can't just shove them into a couple of monkey cages - as happened when the Chinese govt. gave the last pair to Mr Heath. There has to be new housing. I completely agree that it doesn't have to to last for 50 years and it will probably have to be built in a hurry if it's to be ready for 2012. But if it happens, it's got to be the biggest attraction at the Zoo while it's open; it's got to provide excellent views of the pandas (when they're awake at least
); it's got to provide all the facilities required for breeding and it's got to be so large and so attractive that it's above criticism in the eyes of the general public - although nothing will be immune from criticism by the 'antis' who always target the ZSL. Even in the present economic climate, I think that a package like this could be attractive to a billionaire who wants to raise his profile with the public in the UK and in China. I agree that there is quite a lot of space available inside the Zoo, certainly enough for two or three medium-sized exhibits - but is there enough for a large exhibit like this, particularly if it's going to house some other Chinese species too? We all hope that some of the available space will be used for a larger tiger enclosure and what about the new Panda Cafe and Panda Gift Shop (not to mention the Panda face-painting booth, the Panda brass-rubbing centre and the Bamboo wine bar
)? I think they may need an extra hectare.Alan
The North Bank (of the Regents Canal) is one possible area, but I do think that this could be an opportunity for the Zoo to exercise its option to use extra land from Regents Park (I presume that it's on the south-west boundary, behind the children's zoo).
If the ZSL actually get some pandas (and I'm still not completely convinced
There has to be new housing. I completely agree that it doesn't have to to last for 50 years and it will probably have to be built in a hurry if it's to be ready for 2012. But if it happens, it's got to be the biggest attraction at the Zoo while it's open; it's got to provide excellent views of the pandas (when they're awake at least
I agree that there is quite a lot of space available inside the Zoo, certainly enough for two or three medium-sized exhibits - but is there enough for a large exhibit like this, particularly if it's going to house some other Chinese species too? We all hope that some of the available space will be used for a larger tiger enclosure and what about the new Panda Cafe and Panda Gift Shop (not to mention the Panda face-painting booth, the Panda brass-rubbing centre and the Bamboo wine bar
Alan
exactly what i was thinking, do they really have room, or will they remove exsisting exhibits to make room, i hope not.
I would be more ambitious perhaps! I really feel ZSL's Regent's Park site would benefit from being allowed a chunk out of the park to the south and west of the current zoo.
If Londoners are so concerned about their greens, hell why are they not so concerned about better husbandry, management and exhibitry for London Zoo and its wild and often endangered species?
If Londoners are so concerned about their greens, hell why are they not so concerned about better husbandry, management and exhibitry for London Zoo and its wild and often endangered species?
We all hope that some of the available space will be used for a larger tiger enclosure and what about the new Panda Cafe and Panda Gift Shop (not to mention the Panda face-painting booth, the Panda brass-rubbing centre and the Bamboo wine bar
Alan
Actually if the tigers were put somewhere else, their existing enclosure with some fairly extensie renovations would make a perfectly feasable Panda enclosure- its about the correct size to show them off. Maybe fill in the moat and have a glass viewing wall and get rid of the mesh roofing. The adjacent smallcat/monkey areas could be remodelled for associated wildlife like golden monkeys(!!)/pheasants etc.
Panda Gift shop and Panda Cafe to be sited along the existing boundary. Panda facepainting on lawn and Panda brass-rubbing centre to go near Wader bird aviary. Still working on location for 'Bamboo wine bar', and main entrance area to the 'Pandas of Szechwan(can't spell it...) experience'
Actually if the tigers were put somewhere else, their existing enclosure with some fairly extensie renovations would make a perfectly feasable Panda enclosure- its about the correct size to show them off. Maybe fill in the moat and have a glass viewing wall and get rid of the mesh roofing. The adjacent smallcat/monkey areas could be remodelled for associated wildlife like golden monkeys(!!)/pheasants etc.
Panda Gift shop and Panda Cafe to be sited along the existing boundary. Panda facepainting on lawn and Panda brass-rubbing centre to go near Wader bird aviary. Still working on location for 'Bamboo wine bar', and main entrance area to the 'Pandas of Szechwan(can't spell it...) experience'
Pandas of Sichuan.
I am still utterly convinced part of Regent's Park to the south and west should be included to provide a better environment for ZSL London Zoo's animal collection.
Actually if the tigers were put somewhere else, their existing enclosure with some fairly extensie renovations would make a perfectly feasable Panda enclosure- its about the correct size to show them off. Maybe fill in the moat and have a glass viewing wall and get rid of the mesh roofing. The adjacent smallcat/monkey areas could be remodelled for associated wildlife like golden monkeys(!!)/pheasants etc.
Panda Gift shop and Panda Cafe to be sited along the existing boundary. Panda facepainting on lawn and Panda brass-rubbing centre to go near Wader bird aviary. Still working on location for 'Bamboo wine bar', and main entrance area to the 'Pandas of Szechwan(can't spell it...) experience'
sounds a great idea, do any tigers live in the wild with pandas?
I'm not suggesting the zoo's Tigers would stay in that area....
To answer your question, there are Tigers still in South China but I don't think Panda and Tigers occur in the same areas. Nor sure about when Chinese Tiger was more common though.
I have a feeling the extra land they could claim is a long but narrow strip along the southern boundary, the longest side of the 'triangle' which forms Regent's Park Zoo. I'm not sure quite how they could utilise it but am not clued up on the exact portion of land involved.
thanks for that, it was just an idea
just to touch on a few posts.
someone mentioned sticking the giant pandas in the mappin terraces. i guess at this stage none of us know where they will go if they end up going anywhere, but my guess is that ZSL will build either a new exhibit OR utilise/redevelop an existing enclosure less encumbered by heritage restrictions.
ZSL has just done up the mappin terraces, but dumping a load of red dirt and planting some gums isnt a long-term enclosure. its good for now but in the next4-5 years i wouldnt be suprised if its again developed into something a little more....groundbreaking.
as for where to put pandas.
ZSL does have, in the main gardens quite a large, undeveloped central space. currently used by a playground, the animals in action tent and the bird show ampitheatre; none of these features are elements of any sort of lasting value. the playground will end up in the new childrens zoo and it wouldnt be hard to squeeze at least an ampitheatre somewhere else, leaving what is essentially quite a sizeable parcel of land in the zoos centre which could be used for a panda development, of such a size that the zoos centre retains a feeling of space. indeed, any panda exhibit in this space would create a dramatic anchor to the new visitor plaza and probably reinvigorate what should be a clear orientation point, and capitalise on those lovely Plane trees.
failing that course, the cat terraces could always become a Wild China exhibit. if you have pandas, do you need lions too? the asian lions could be redistributed within the EEP or sent to whipsnade and their enclosure, with its wide frontage redesigned as a panda enclosure. the smaller exhibits sometimes used to hold the lions could become glassed in viewing pavillions. primates such as francois langur and white cheeked gibbons, red pandas, pheasants and other birds, reptile hubs and amur tigers (from whispande swapped with the sumatrans which arent doing well in the city) could top off the theme. the terraces already have the basic infrastructure and location for the crowds the pandas would attract and the zoo could market such an exhibit as not only a wildlife/ecological journey but also a cultural one. themed architecture, extending to three island pond and topped off with chinese flora could createa true immersion experience. putting pandas there would also mean the zoo would get to renovate a set of exhibits which are slated for an upgrade without compromising its involvement in too many existing EEPs, losing only asian lions.
someone mentioned sticking the giant pandas in the mappin terraces. i guess at this stage none of us know where they will go if they end up going anywhere, but my guess is that ZSL will build either a new exhibit OR utilise/redevelop an existing enclosure less encumbered by heritage restrictions.
ZSL has just done up the mappin terraces, but dumping a load of red dirt and planting some gums isnt a long-term enclosure. its good for now but in the next4-5 years i wouldnt be suprised if its again developed into something a little more....groundbreaking.
as for where to put pandas.
ZSL does have, in the main gardens quite a large, undeveloped central space. currently used by a playground, the animals in action tent and the bird show ampitheatre; none of these features are elements of any sort of lasting value. the playground will end up in the new childrens zoo and it wouldnt be hard to squeeze at least an ampitheatre somewhere else, leaving what is essentially quite a sizeable parcel of land in the zoos centre which could be used for a panda development, of such a size that the zoos centre retains a feeling of space. indeed, any panda exhibit in this space would create a dramatic anchor to the new visitor plaza and probably reinvigorate what should be a clear orientation point, and capitalise on those lovely Plane trees.
failing that course, the cat terraces could always become a Wild China exhibit. if you have pandas, do you need lions too? the asian lions could be redistributed within the EEP or sent to whipsnade and their enclosure, with its wide frontage redesigned as a panda enclosure. the smaller exhibits sometimes used to hold the lions could become glassed in viewing pavillions. primates such as francois langur and white cheeked gibbons, red pandas, pheasants and other birds, reptile hubs and amur tigers (from whispande swapped with the sumatrans which arent doing well in the city) could top off the theme. the terraces already have the basic infrastructure and location for the crowds the pandas would attract and the zoo could market such an exhibit as not only a wildlife/ecological journey but also a cultural one. themed architecture, extending to three island pond and topped off with chinese flora could createa true immersion experience. putting pandas there would also mean the zoo would get to renovate a set of exhibits which are slated for an upgrade without compromising its involvement in too many existing EEPs, losing only asian lions.
has anyone actually stopped for a minute and studied the current lion enclosure. its actually quite a bit chunk of ground, and is already well laid out in terms of visitor space. the animal areas or viewing space could be enhanced by narrowing the hedges on the sloping side of the exhibit near the old camel house, which would add more space.
the land within the exhibit could be carefully contoured with mounds and boulder clusters to give the animals more space...and maybe the moat narrowed a little.
the 2? exhibits to the side of the lion exhibit, used for red pandas,vultures and other species previously could be modified to become one larger enclosure for an adult or female with cub etc.
just imagine a dramatic Chinese pavillion in between the waterfowl aviary and current lion viewing window. set on top of giant polished stone slabs, the waterfowl aviary could spill into a series of pools which would lap the pavillion into the panda's moat, filled with carp and water-plant.
the gardens at the front of the lion exhibit could be replanted to resemble bamboo groves, so that the animals could be glimpsed through the stands as in the wild. at the same time, with up to 5 or 6 main viewing points for the pandas from the front and two sides of the exhibit, crowding visitors would be less of a problem. perhaps even the large holding areas at the back of the exhibit could have their viewing windows reinstalled to allow visitors to see into the behind the scenes zone?
the tiger enclosure needs an overhaul....raising the netting cover to create more height and using a lighter guage mesh would deflect public criticism and horizontal and vertically placed deadfall would add vital usable space. temperate, deciduous tree species, shaggy grasses, rock outcrops and an improved water feature, perhaps even with a glass front positioned right up against the walkway to add space would create a northern Chinese/Russian border habitat.
structurally, most of the walls, buildings etc could be retained, but rendered and enhaced with traditional chinese tiles, motiffs and handmade bricks to depict Chinese architecture.
the current waterfowl aviary could be transformed into either a temperate forest exhibit or rice paddy aviary for species like mandarin ducks, egrets and ibis.
i would like to see London Zoo with more undercover viewing areas, to turn into a more year-round, all weather attraction. Wild China would be linked by covered, shingle roofed walkways, flanked by Chinese flora and tumbling water features in the central stairs area.
i would give all the space currently used for serval, francois langur and spider monkeys over to just francois langur and white-cheeked gibbon, in high netted exhibits using the same wire as the white fronted mangabeys in gorilla kingdom. but the china exhibits could be up to a third higher, engulfing live trees and with raised viewing platforms.
all along the walls of the tiger and panda viewing galleries i would have thermostatically controlled terrariums of various size and placed at different heights, filled with all sorts of chinese herpes and amphibia species. these species could interpret illagal wildlife trade but also tell the story of the chinese eco-systems in full, with a more representative cast.
other themes could be...
chinese habitats
human encroachment
cultural significance of wildlife
modern day stories of conservation success
what people could do in Britain to help wildlife in China...
hope you like the ideas. and yes, i loved the wild china series
the land within the exhibit could be carefully contoured with mounds and boulder clusters to give the animals more space...and maybe the moat narrowed a little.
the 2? exhibits to the side of the lion exhibit, used for red pandas,vultures and other species previously could be modified to become one larger enclosure for an adult or female with cub etc.
just imagine a dramatic Chinese pavillion in between the waterfowl aviary and current lion viewing window. set on top of giant polished stone slabs, the waterfowl aviary could spill into a series of pools which would lap the pavillion into the panda's moat, filled with carp and water-plant.
the gardens at the front of the lion exhibit could be replanted to resemble bamboo groves, so that the animals could be glimpsed through the stands as in the wild. at the same time, with up to 5 or 6 main viewing points for the pandas from the front and two sides of the exhibit, crowding visitors would be less of a problem. perhaps even the large holding areas at the back of the exhibit could have their viewing windows reinstalled to allow visitors to see into the behind the scenes zone?
the tiger enclosure needs an overhaul....raising the netting cover to create more height and using a lighter guage mesh would deflect public criticism and horizontal and vertically placed deadfall would add vital usable space. temperate, deciduous tree species, shaggy grasses, rock outcrops and an improved water feature, perhaps even with a glass front positioned right up against the walkway to add space would create a northern Chinese/Russian border habitat.
structurally, most of the walls, buildings etc could be retained, but rendered and enhaced with traditional chinese tiles, motiffs and handmade bricks to depict Chinese architecture.
the current waterfowl aviary could be transformed into either a temperate forest exhibit or rice paddy aviary for species like mandarin ducks, egrets and ibis.
i would like to see London Zoo with more undercover viewing areas, to turn into a more year-round, all weather attraction. Wild China would be linked by covered, shingle roofed walkways, flanked by Chinese flora and tumbling water features in the central stairs area.
i would give all the space currently used for serval, francois langur and spider monkeys over to just francois langur and white-cheeked gibbon, in high netted exhibits using the same wire as the white fronted mangabeys in gorilla kingdom. but the china exhibits could be up to a third higher, engulfing live trees and with raised viewing platforms.
all along the walls of the tiger and panda viewing galleries i would have thermostatically controlled terrariums of various size and placed at different heights, filled with all sorts of chinese herpes and amphibia species. these species could interpret illagal wildlife trade but also tell the story of the chinese eco-systems in full, with a more representative cast.
other themes could be...
chinese habitats
human encroachment
cultural significance of wildlife
modern day stories of conservation success
what people could do in Britain to help wildlife in China...
hope you like the ideas. and yes, i loved the wild china series
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yeah, the lion enclosure is a good idea, and has the area to be expanded
i like that idea