Duchess and gay story

You could just talk politely instead of with this patronising attitude. She does have vision so I don't think that would be the case. I just think the loneliness she has and will endure is the worst possible way to end her days?
Yes she does have vision,but its not as great as you think,as a result she is better off staying where she is,where she has a very dedicated team of keepers looking after her every need.I am not a fan of these rescue places and there claims,that they are better than zoo's,when all they are doing is giving them a bigger area,sometimes quality of care is better than a vast space,and this is one of those cases!!!
 
These are just claims with no evidence - just your personal opinion which I respect and so should you mine. The two people running elephant haven in France have worked with elephants for many years and are backed up by a skilled advisory board which could very easily match the care she receives. At the end of the day, it's harshly unnatural and to be honest very cruel for a female to be housed alone and that is the cold hard truth of the matter. Elephants are not elephants if their social needs are not met. Period.
 
In my opinion, moving such an elderly elephant is potentially risky (there was a nasty case recently in America). Mixing her with other elephants is also risky - individuals do not always get on well and she is relatively frail.
Even if a suitable sanctuary existed, the Zoo might be very reluctant to take such risks out of concern for the elephant's welfare, but also because the publicity would be terrible if anything did go wrong.

Alan
 
is there not a lone female now at Blackpool zoo.......
Yes, but if Paignton thought Duchess was in desperate need of company, I'm sure they would have brought in another elephant. They had the chance when Anne was in need of a home, but she ended up at Longleat - alone too.
I agree with those who say Duchess should remain at Paignton(as I did in 2013), given her poor eye sight, I'm sure she is better in familiar surroundings.
 
This is something I only learnt relatively recently, but elephant families are families. Related cows who've grown up together.

Mixing adult strange elephants together can be very dangerous, even if they get along you can never recreate a family.

If you're ever at Chester, watch Maya. She's the only cow not part of the Hi Way family and she has very little to do with the other elephants, while all Hi Way's are always interacting.

Duchess is old (remember African don't live as long as Asians) and her eye sight is bad.

Wanting to give her space and companionship is commendable, but what if she's bullied at this sanctuary? What if she slips or trips?
 
I think what should also be remembered is that Duchess has never had company of her own kind since being an infant, she had company of an Asian elephant only before Gay was put to sleep a few years ago, I am not criticising Paignton for this, it was quite common in years past to mix both species together. I think the proposed sanctuary Whiskas is referring to is one that is proposed to be built by the Born Free Foundation. I have just watched a film called "elephant in the room" made by the Born Free Foundation featuring Virginia Mc Kenna visiting Twiggy, an Asian cow who lives alone at Belgrade Zoo, I have a personal interest in Twiggy as I remember her in the early seventies when she originally lived alone at Cricket St. Thomas before being moved to various collections. I don't personally think that Paignton would want to bring in any other elephants Asian or African as company for Duchess, as when Duchess passes on that will be it no more elephants, also I am sure if it had been considered prudent to send her to another collection when Gay died I would suggest that would have been done, it is her eye sight and age which has prevented this
 
I think the argument is focusing on the wrong premise (solitary confinement vs forcing an old animal into a social situation), when actually the case could be made on the grounds of facilities.

While Paignton does have a relatively modern house, newer buildings are now superior to what they can provide. I would argue that elderly animals, in the absence of health problems that would specifically prevent them from enduring a move, and who had responded well to the process of training for crate transfer, would almost certainly benefit from larger indoor facilities with more light, greater indoor areas on soft substrates, underfloor heating, indoor pools and showers, and perhaps mental stimulation from being in the proximity of other elephants. From there, it would be possible to judge whether the animal was interested in interacting through the barriers, or was more comfortable at a distance.

I would be very surprised if simple proximity to other individuals caused distress in an animal intelligent enough to understand whether there were barriers between them and another elephant.

With all this in mind, Noah's Ark, Blair Drummond (although climate is a factor still, despite the new house), and even Longleat should be ruled out only through a thorough process of evaluation by Paignton. Just sitting on their animal on the grounds that she is old and has eye problems is, IMHO, short-changing her if there is evidence that better indoor facilities in a temperate climate can really improve the physical condition of older animals.

I won't make the same argument on the threads about Katie in Blackpool, but the above absolutely applies there, too.
 
Community zoo this is pretty much everything I've been trying to get across and you just worded it beautifully. Her age and health is an issue of course but it's not a reason to condem he to solitary confinement. The proximity of another elephant is something that should indeed comfort duchess. Also, I thought duchess used to be housed at Long leat? I am not sure, does anyone know for sure where she was previously. If this was the case, she almost certainly wasn't housed alone?
 
So there is a lone elephant Blackpool Zoo.. and at Longleat?

There is also one(Asian) in a Hindu Monastery somewhere in Wales. There was also a lone female African in the new purpose-built Elephant sanctuary at Noah's Ark in Somerset for several months, but she's now been joined by two young males. Blackpool's recent loss brings the total of singles back to what it was earlier last year, though additionally the adult bull 'Kruger' is currently living alone at Port Lympne, awaiting a planned move to join the Noah's Ark group.
 
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Okay... well please explain this? Also what elephant issues have Elephant Haven got? They're only in the planning stage and this is the place I recommended for Duchess...


Even if you consider a sanctuary a better option than a zoo there is one big issue with Elephant Haven. It is a project so there is no sanctuary currently. Also I don't expect the sanctuary opening anything soon.
 
Yes but they are the project that is the closest to being open in Europe so my support lies with them. They have until the end of March this year to raise the funds for the purchase of the land, if not then its back to square one and no elephants get rescued for an even longer time. Unless someone can tell me of an established sanctuary in Europe where the aim isnt breeding, elephant haven seems like project with the most promise. Also, it is a shame that the lone elephants in the UK can't be united to ease their lonliness...
 
Yes but they are the project that is the closest to being open in Europe so my support liehs with them. They have until the end of March this year to raise the funds for the purchase of the land, if not then its back to square one and no elephants get rescued for an even longer time. Unless someone can tell me of an established sanctuary in Europe where the aim isnt breeding, elephant haven seems like project with the most promise. Also, it is a shame that the lone elephants in the UK can't be united to ease their lonliness...
How do you KNOW that these elephants are lonely?
You certainly haven't been to visit them, studied them or asked them!
 
Yes but they are the project that is the closest to being open in Europe so my support lies with them. They have until the end of March this year to raise the funds for the purchase of the land, if not then its back to square one and no elephants get rescued for an even longer time. Unless someone can tell me of an established sanctuary in Europe where the aim isnt breeding, elephant haven seems like project with the most promise. Also, it is a shame that the lone elephants in the UK can't be united to ease their lonliness...

I agree the elephants should not be living alone, however apart from Valli the Hindu temple elephant, all that are currently living alone did have elephant companions in the past. The elephant sanctuary is I am sure very well intentioned with their plans, however it must be remembered that they will only be able to obtain elephants if their current owners agree to the move, some may, some may not, they cannot be forced to hand over the animals. P.S. elephants that are currently living alone in the U.K. have had companions, I do not know for sure about elephants living in other parts of Europe, some may have lived alone for many years.
 
And how do you KNOW they aren't. If you know anything about elephants AND considering she also lost a companion there is very high chance she is lacking same species contact. She is a wild animal - human companionship can never match that of her own kind. Also, don't start asuming things about myself. I am currently studying and have no desire to justify myself any further to you. From your attitude you clearly don't appreciate the sentience of this species, something you would have learnt if you had any insight into the animal.
 
I agree the elephants should not be living alone, however apart from Valli the Hindu temple elephant, all that are currently living alone did have elephant companions in the past. The elephant sanctuary is I am sure very well intentioned with their plans, however it must be remembered that they will only be able to obtain elephants if their current owners agree to the move, some may, some may not, they cannot be forced to hand over the animals

I know it will only happen with compliance. But I am willing to fight on behalf of these animals as they can't themselves. Even if I am the only person trying to understand the effects of solitude for these wonderful creatures, i will keep trying because in the end they're wellbeing is what matters in the end.
 
I know it will only happen with compliance. But I am willing to fight on behalf of these animals as they can't themselves. Even if I am the only person trying to understand the effects of solitude for these wonderful creatures, i will keep trying because in the end they're wellbeing is what matters in the end.

Well I am pleased to hear you have a great interest in elephants, just like myself, and I am taking an interest in seeing if this sanctuary does in fact materialise, and if it does what elephants shall eventually live in it.
 
I do. I really do and i really appreciate their intelligence and emotional capcity. I guess thats why I am so invested in this subject. Also, please know that my anger in the previous comment was not directed at you. Thankyou for respecting my view and partially agreeing with me. I can entertain other opinions, however i do not appreciate my own being patronised.
 
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